Author Topic: Hangun for my wife  (Read 15363 times)

makattak

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2010, 02:35:17 PM »
Let her choose.

I say again, let her choose.

If I may- I'm glad everyone here is jumping to accuse the OP of forcing his pick on the "little woman", but may I highlight for you:

I'm starting to look for handgun for my wife for target practice and personal protection. I've checked out the Bareta PX4,  but am undecided. First step is to get her to our local range and see what she feels comfortable with and will also do the job. Nothin' worse than to just piss off a bad guy. I also want her to have enough stopping power eithout knocking herself on her ass or breaking her nose.

Any suggestions?

PS - We're on some significant property so have room to shoot some weapons at CSDaddy. Emphisis on SOME.
Tim

Seems to me he's asking for suggestions that they can try out.

On point, I like my Px4. I need to shoot more with it, but recoil is almost nil and it points very will for me, at least. (A number of friends have made the same observation, though.)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

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Fly320s

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2010, 02:47:23 PM »
Well, sure, if you want us to actually read the OP we may understand what he wants.  =D

Lots of good pistols to choose from.  Try to limit yourself/her to 9mm and larger calibers.

In no particular order:

S&W M&P series
Glocks, especially the 4th generation that is just coming out
1911s, also includes the EMP
Sigs, especially the 250
Kahr
CZ
H&K, P30 looks decent
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

BridgeRunner

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2010, 02:49:06 PM »
If I may- I'm glad everyone here is jumping to accuse the OP of forcing his pick on the "little woman", but may I highlight for you:

Nah, I just find this entire topic irksome for other reasons, to wit, the idea that recoil is likely to "knock [her] on her ass" or the idea that she needs a DA revolver instead of something so complicated as an auto.  Please.  The fact remains that "what gun for wifey" is the EXACT same question as "what gun for husband," as eloquently by corneredcat's essay illustrating that.  It's just silly to assume or even to guess that a woman can't handle x amount/type of recoil, can't handle x type of controls, etc.  One thing many but not all women may have in common is that a lot of women's clothing these days is quite form-fitting, so the size of a concealed pistol is an issue, but BSL has made it pretty clear that she has no problems with her 1911.  I know I couldn't pull off anything but the smallest .380, but I don't know how typical I am.

So tell me, please, what gun should I get for my husband?  I don't want anything that will scare him or knock him on his ass, and I dunno if he's smart enough to handle a complex machine like a semi-auto...

Gewehr98

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2010, 02:50:32 PM »
Quote
I'm starting to look for handgun for my wife

Sounds like a fair trade.  =D
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makattak

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2010, 02:52:18 PM »
Nah, I just find this entire topic irksome for other reasons, to wit, the idea that recoil is likely to "knock [her] on her ass" or the idea that she needs a DA revolver instead of something so complicated as an auto.  Please.  The fact remains that "what gun for wifey" is the EXACT same question as "what gun for husband," as eloquently by corneredcat's essay illustrating that.  It's just silly to assume or even to guess that a woman can't handle x amount/type of recoil, can't handle x type of controls, etc.  One thing many but not all women may have in common is that a lot of women's clothing these days is quite form-fitting, so the size of a concealed pistol is an issue, but BSL has made it pretty clear that she has no problems with her 1911.  I know I couldn't pull off anything but the smallest .380, but I don't know how typical I am.

So tell me, please, what gun should I get for my husband?  I don't want anything that will scare him or knock him on his ass, and I dunno if he's smart enough to handle a complex machine like a semi-auto...

Alright, if he's a new shooter and you think he may be recoil sensitive, I'd suggest a heavy handgun in a medium handgun caliber, such as a 9mm.

Beretta Px4 or the 92F might be good to look at.
I really enjoy my HiPower.
Glock is always a perennial favorite.

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I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2010, 03:08:54 PM »
I got a handgun form my wife once...best trade  I ever made =D.

Actually my wife put her name on the sign-up sheet at our local toy gun store for the next CCW class. Don't know if she will go through with it or if it was just to shut up me and a couple of guys we went to school with. I guess time will tell.

I haven't been able to get her to go to the range with me in years (15-16 actually and since the range is in our back yard that makes it even more painful :'(). I've never done the tough guy thing and had her shoot big guns. Always had a range from .22 rf to .45 ACP for her to shoot if she wanted.

Still working on it though.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2010, 04:00:04 PM »
I somewhat agree with BridgeWalker.

Wife #1 wanted a handgun, and I made the serious mistake of suggesting a J-Frame .38.  She matter-of-factly asked me why she couldn't have a 5" 1911 like mine.   It was an honest question, and was also a real eye-opener with respect to ingrained stereotypes.  She got her 1911, and did just fine with it.
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2010, 04:13:07 PM »
See how easy that is without the chip on your shoulder?

I was actually summing up the substance of The Cornered Cat's essay for those who may not have read it.  But if you want to continue to pigeonhole me as a feminist bitch, that's fine, I don't mind.

Gewehr98

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2010, 04:20:00 PM »
Ok, folks, let's play nice...  =|
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2010, 04:41:05 PM »
Quote
Nah, I just find this entire topic irksome for other reasons, to wit, the idea that recoil is likely to "knock [her] on her ass" or the idea that she needs a DA revolver instead of something so complicated as an auto.  Please.  The fact remains that "what gun for wifey" is the EXACT same question as "what gun for husband," as eloquently by corneredcat's essay illustrating that.  It's just silly to assume or even to guess that a woman can't handle x amount/type of recoil, can't handle x type of controls, etc.

My mom thought she knew how handguns operate.

She just assumed she'd be able to pick up my dad's gun in the nightstand and be able to stop an attacker.

She'd never shot a gun before.

She had a lot of disdain for me taking off down the shootin' lifestyle.  All the bambi-ism, moral relativism and such... I've heard it at the family dinner table countless times. 

Dad and I finally took her out shooting in the desert about 3 weeks ago.  What a trial.

I was really excited to take her out to do this because I really wanted to change her mind, and I finally had a chink in her armor against "guns."

There are some things that new female shooters do with guns that I've yet to see a new male shooter do with guns.

By far the largest trend I see, however is: They lean backwards away from the slide direction of semiautos, holding the gun with overly bent elbows from the center of their body, but with legs forward/backwards.  There's some trepidation in regards to that slide.

We went over the 4 Rules on the ride out to the desert, and once again when we actually arrived at our range.  Went over manual of arms of the .22 rifle before we started on handguns and had her review the 4 Rules again.  She still deliberately swept us after emptying the rifle, and then tried to justify it as "but it's unloaded!"

She did this 2-3 times before we finally beat it into her that all accidents are the result of "unloaded" guns.  She saw us being very deliberate with the muzzles and locking bolts back and such with our rifles and finally decided we weren't babying her or something and finally started to behave.

(The above safety stuff is merely anecdotal and I don't mean to imply that it applies to all women... just thought you guys might be interested.  Topical portion follows now:)

She shot my dad's Sig.  Repeatedly could not operate the gun or interpret what the gun was telling her.  It was a mosquito, identical to the P226 in his nightstand except for caliber.  DA/SA confused her, the slide mounted safety confused her, and the idea that a rimfire round could fail to ignite and she would have to rack the slide to get a fresh one confused her.  She hated it.

She also hated dad's Kimber 9mm 1911.  Even as a SA only action, she didn't like having to move a safety and she was put off by the slide coming back at her face.  Or the feel of automatic recoil at all.  She seemed to like the more solid recoil impulse of a revolver better.

Could she learn it eventually?  Certainly.  She is a technophobe and still hasn't learned how to fully control the stereo/TV/DVD player setup in the living room, so that could be part of it.  I've certainly met women that quickly picked up on more complicated manuals of arms such as Sigs and CZ's.

But I come across a lot more women that have problems with the chain of logical IF...THEN operations involved with DA/SA autos, than men who experience the same problems. 

Or, perhaps, men have those problems with guns they buy and they attack the learning curve to become proficient, while women typically have those guns put in their hands by men and say "I don't like it" and move on to a different type of firearm.

I put my S&W M65 revolver in her hands with .38's, explained SA/DA operation of it to her but told her "just pull the trigger with the sights on the target" and she put six holes in our cardboard bad guy.

Dad's bummed as a result of this trip out shooting because mom enjoyed it overall, but doesn't like any guns that dad has.  She wants something that is "hers" to occasionally practice with and keep in the nightstand when she's comfortable with doing so, and she wants a DA 6-gun after handling my M65.  Dad will probably have to pick up a used K-frame .38 up at J&G next time he drives through there, now.

Any time I take a new female shooter out for a first-time lesson I start with a .22 rifle for safety, and if she is mostly interested in handguns then we go to my .22 revolver, then .38's in the K-frame and then examine other options as she demonstrates interest.  I've had girls want to shoot my .44 Redhawks and .45 1911's, and girls that only liked shooting the .22 revolver.

Very few novice female shooters have liked automatics.

Anecdotes from a single guy that takes new female shooters out from time to time. YMMV.
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French G.

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2010, 04:52:43 PM »
I don't presume to choose guns for other people. Any other people. I try to steer them towards effective quality. I have more to do, my wife is aware there are guns about but doesn't see any more need to learn about them much more than she sees a need to know how to change the serpentine belt on her car! That's what I'm for.  ;/ So, we've done some shooting, but not much. She tried to steal my S&W 325, light and fits her hand. To date, she has not shot it, but understands how it works and how to load and unload it. Semi-autos confuse her only due to lack of training with conditions of readiness. She desires simple.


Were I to buy her guns, which is hopefully in the near future, it would be a Marlin 1895 in .357 and an S&W 686 or 627. Same ammo, simple controls, selectable ammo power levels, effective and reliable. Maybe a 327. She likes light, thinks my A2 AR-15 is too heavy, but likes my K-31. Again, range time is in order...

I'd recommend to the OP to look at the S&W 686 and 627. .38/.357, more shots, easy to make go. The 625 is also not a bad choice, moon clips make things more simpler.

I somewhat agree with BridgeWalker.

Wife #1 wanted a handgun, and I made the serious mistake of suggesting a J-Frame .38.  She matter-of-factly asked me why she couldn't have a 5" 1911 like mine.   It was an honest question, and was also a real eye-opener with respect to ingrained stereotypes.  She got her 1911, and did just fine with it.

Again, my wife tried to grab my 642. I'd be happier to give her a 1911. She shoots my Glock 17 quite well under instruction. A full size handgun in a decent caliber is a much better choice for an occasional shooter than a J-frame. I consider the J-frame an experts gun. Lighter ballistics, small sights, mine is DAO, limited ammo capacity. If you employ a J-frame you ought have a plan how to do it. Effective action is likely to be fast, aggressive, and at bad breath range. Not a great place for someone who doesn't ponder such things much. However, if that was all she would carry, sure beats a sharp stick.
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280plus

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2010, 07:28:58 PM »
Quote
the idea that recoil is likely to "knock [her] on her ass" or the idea that she needs a DA revolver instead of something so complicated as an auto.
Uh, I carry a DA revolver. Why? More dependable, less stuff to have to manipulate in a panic situation just point and shoot, etc etc. I passed on both the light .357 AND light .38 because I thought the recoil was excessive so I have one in .32 mag. And gee I'm a man. Go figure, Just trying to pass along my experience, that's all. I'd say more but G98 wants us to be nice. Geeezzzz... and  ;/  back at ya!  

Oh, I also have a revolver in .22 mag but it's a Taurus and I think the action is junk.

 :laugh:

PS, if you go back and READ my first post you'll find I qualified the whole thing by saying "Unless she's proficient..." right at the get go. First "words" out of my mouth.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 07:39:22 PM by 280plus »
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2010, 08:49:42 PM »
I don't like revolvers and I never have.

I've been swept repeatedly by a newb friend I took shooting, too.  Mostly he was too busy trying to act confident to act deliberately and safely. 

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2010, 08:58:11 PM »
BSL can certainly handle all thrown her way and seems too be a bit of a recoil junky...

she also really couldn't figure out the fuss over recoil after shooting her .357 mag. revolver...

too each there own. take her to a gunstore and get her to put her hands on every gun they can pull out of the case. explain why certain choices might not be so great for just started (especially if she picks up a snubbie revolver!) and the positives/negatives of all the choices.

if you can find a place to rent, also VERY good idea!
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longeyes

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2010, 10:11:34 PM »
Quote
There are some things that new female shooters do with guns that I've yet to see a new male shooter do with guns.

By far the largest trend I see, however is: They lean backwards away from the slide direction of semiautos, holding the gun with overly bent elbows from the center of their body, but with legs forward/backwards.  There's some trepidation in regards to that slide.

Funny, but I see a lot of guys at my range shoot the exact same way.  Maybe it's a Los Angeles thing? =D

I've taken several women out to the range, and when shown all quickly adapted to a more aggressive stance when they saw how it reduced recoil and gave them more control.  Interestingly, all proved to be natural shooters at the first go and better than most of the male newbies I've shot with.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2010, 10:18:14 PM »
Funny, but I see a lot of guys at my range shoot the exact same way.  Maybe it's a Los Angeles thing? =D

I've taken several women out to the range, and when shown all quickly adapted to a more aggressive stance when they saw how it reduced recoil and gave them more control.  Interestingly, all proved to be natural shooters at the first go and better than most of the male newbies I've shot with.

100% agreed that women novice shooters tend to be better shots than men novice shooters, when open to instruction.  Men tend to be more mentally obstructed to being told how to use a weapon.  Like it was burned into their bones or something, and "who are you" to tell them the right way to do it.

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2010, 10:23:57 PM »
you would probably not think i shoot with an aggressive enough posture, but then would you say thats me not being able to learn or because i find it physically painful to hold a forward position?

just saying, most of us have more weight up on our chest then most men (i say most, because i've seen guys with a chest to rival mine)
for myself, it means a more upright shooting posture.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2010, 10:29:45 PM »
Use what works for you.

Usually what works best is the "correct" technique, iffin you're willing to learn it and try it.  Maybe not for everyone, but certainly for most people.

At the very least, everyone should accept proper training and try it out the right way.  If after that they conclude that they're better off doing something different, then that's cool.  But there are guys out there who rebel at the thought of doing it someone else's way, and they have difficulty shooting because of it.

AJ Dual

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2010, 10:29:54 PM »
There are some things that new female shooters do with guns that I've yet to see a new male shooter do with guns.

By far the largest trend I see, however is: They lean backwards away from the slide direction of semiautos, holding the gun with overly bent elbows from the center of their body, but with legs forward/backwards.  There's some trepidation in regards to that slide.

I see that stance from innumerable women in "day at the range" pics on the various gunboards.

I don't think it's "slide fear". I think it's a female pelvis/center-of-gravity/weight distribution issue. Perhaps also differential upper body strength to extend a handgun at arms-length and keep it there. It seems to me they lean back because the forward crouch does not come naturally to them.

(edit) Yes, I've seen men do it too. Not as much, but still prevalent. Putting a foot forward to shift your CG with a firearm extended is somewhat more learned, where just leaning back to counterbalance is more instinctual, even though it's inferior posture for several reasons.

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280plus

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2010, 10:35:39 PM »
I don't like revolvers and I never have.
Revolvers don't jam. Although I must say that's not necessarily true 100% of the time either. I've seen two differnt revolvers jam. One was a certain Taurus in .22 mag because the action is junk, the other one was a lightweight S&W .357 with .38s in it that jumped crimp because of the excessive recoil I mentioned, the rounds stuck far enough out of the front of the cylinder to jam against the frame which prevented the cylinder from turning. They are still more reliable than autos and that is the only reason I prefer to make a revolver my carry gun and the only reason I suggested it. In a clutch situation I want to be as sure as I can that mechanical failure is not going to result in my untimley demise. If I get a misfire in my revolver I just pull the trigger agin. If I get a misfire in my auto I might very well be screwed unless I'm VERY good at clearing and racking the slide under extreme pressure. Most of us are not. Not without some serious practice time anyways.

As a matter of fact I have a Hi Power that I consider my main sidearm and even if I carried that regularly I'd STILL want my .32 on me for backup.

BTW the Airlite .32 mag is a pretty snappy gun itself with some good defense rounds in it. Most everyone I let try it won't shoot it again.  As in, "I ain't shootin' that thing." :lol:
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2010, 10:41:48 PM »
I was responding to AZRedhawk's comment on his experience that beginning women shooters prefer revolvers, not to 280's comments on the practicality of revolvers.

280plus

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2010, 10:50:19 PM »
Ohhhh,,,never mind...  =D

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2010, 11:10:28 PM »
a consideration with a little example..

The english riding circles around here are dominated by women. when i used to ride i would see a lot of horse husbands. these guys where perfectly happy to go to horse events and even ride along on fun rides. they enjoyed spending time with their sig other and doing something the sig other loved to do.

however, these guys were not interested in taking more lessons then they needed to bop along behind wifey. they didn't care about the fine details and didn't want to spend the time and energy learning how to handle anything more then a lazy hack. they just wanted to do something fun and easy with their wifes and when you get into sports that require some serious effort to get beyond the basics, you find that the sig other (of either sex) is not going to advance beyond a certain point. they just don't want to. 

now take that example and replace horses with guns and husbands with wives and you might get a reason for many of these novice women not really caring for more then a very simple DA revolver.

just sayin' is all...
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Balog

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2010, 11:31:18 PM »
BSL makes an excellent point.

Upper body strength is not generally an issue except in very heavy guns or semi-autos with extremely stiff recoil springs. Tiny 1911's come to mind here, I (and a lot of other guys) have trouble properly manipulating them esp when new.

I like revolvers for a couple reasons, no need to buy mags, can be pushed into contact with a bad guy with no chance of pushing the slide out of battery, simple malf drills, reliable examples for lower prices than comparable quality autos etc. I've no issue with either, personally.

Any caliber from .38 Special to .45 acp, any quality maker. Whatever fits her hands.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Hangun for my wife
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2010, 12:22:14 AM »
I was responding to AZRedhawk's comment on his experience that beginning women shooters prefer revolvers, not to 280's comments on the practicality of revolvers.

I can either believe my own eyes and experiences, or the aethereal assertions of innernetz people that I'm wrong.

My own eyes and experiences lead my to start with revolvers when teaching a new shooter, then transition to the more complex manual of arms of autos.  Most women, prefer to stop at a .38 revolver with a 3-4" barrel.  Prior to getting my K-frame M65, my best "girl gun" was my 3" SP101.

Unless they're gonna become "shooters."

Just sayin'.

Bridgewalker and BSL are "shooters."

Most wimmin ain't.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 02:03:49 PM by AZRedhawk44 »
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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