Yup, I TOLD you so...

[280plus]

Going back to a minor rant I did on airlite .38s (not the "wife a hangun" one) and how the newbie old guy came in to the range with one last week along with some super hot rounds they sold him with the gun at Cabelas and how he probably wasn't going to like the recoil. A LOT of shops around here are pushing these on newbies.

Anyhow he came back this week with milder run of the mill plated factory reloads that he could shoot at our place. I had him warm up with his Ruger MK III and then told him to start with the .38 by only loading one round at a time. I watched him pop one off just to be sure he was going to be safe and then I left him alone. He came in the office about a half hour later and said, "I don't think I want to ever shoot that gun again! It's tearing my hands up!"

It makes me sad (or maybe mad) to see a guy like that spend what, $600+ on a gun, and not like shooting it right out of the box. I told him to take it back to Cabelas, give them a bunch of crap about it and see if they'll give him at least most of his money back so that he could spend it on a steel .38 instead. He said, "What's the difference?" I explained aluminum vs steel and weight vs recoil. I said, "That gun is made out of aluminum." He said, "It is?" He had no idea.

Makes me mad,,, just sayin'.  

[280plus]

Maybe I should go there with him and give them a bunch of crap myself. He was all excited about shooting his new .38 and now he hates it. 

[roo_ster]

If a newb wants a little gun, I think a snubby all-steel K-frame .38spl is about as good as it gets.

[French G.]

The little Ruger SP101 is quite a brick too. Money for a S&W 340 is better spent on 2 642s. I have yet to fail in shooting one of those ti/scandium wonder pistols better than its owner that handed it to me, but I'll be damned if I like doing it.

[AZRedhawk44]

Just took a friend out shooting tonight.

It was his 3rd time ever, but his first time with me.

He owns a 2" SP101 as his first gun.

He showed me some of his targets, and he was all over the place like a shotgun pattern, at 20 feet.  Literally a 3 foot spread.

I started him off on my 5" Taurus 94 (.22LR) and got him to start shooting into the 9-zone on a silhouette target consistently, then we shot my CZ-75 for getting used to centerfire noise while still having a lot of mass and a slide to soak up recoil.

Then we moved on to his steel snub, and I watched his form and explained short barrels and sight radius.  He started REALLY watching that front sight while pulling the trigger straight back, and making certain that the backstrap of the grip was square against his palm rather than offset, and that his grip tension was consistent.

Got him shooting double-action into the 8-ring consistently, from his snub.  IMMENSE improvement.  Now he has more confidence and wants to take his CCW course.

I can't imagine how he might have reacted if someone sold him a S&W airweight instead of the steel Ruger.

[Boomhauer]

Those flyweight .38s are great for pocket carry, but are teh suck for anything else. My favorite FFL dealer hates to shoot them because they cause his hand to ache pretty badly afterwards (he's broken his right hand before).

Personally, I refuse to own a firearm that I do not enjoy shooting, especially due to recoil. I'd rather carry a heavier/larger gun and bear the weight and concealment penalties, simply because with the larger/heavier pistols I actually enjoy shooting them and thus I practice with them.

At my CCW class, several of the people had just brought lightweight .38s and had never shot them. I don't recall anyone actually failing the firing course, but much flinching and such fun ensued. Pushing a lightweight .38 on a newb ought to be a crime...and I have and will continue to call out the "experts" that automatically recommend such a gun to an inexperienced shooter.

[Balog]

Too bad it wasn't an M&P 340, I'd offer to buy it offin him.

[PTK]

This is why the only snubnose I still own is an SP101.

[Matthew Carberry]

It's the 135gr +P that is the henchman.  The "must have hottest round" derangement makes a potentially bad situation worse.  After simulating smacking the palm of my hand with a piece of rebar for a couple cylinders in my 85 Ti I went to the Nyclad standard velocity rounds and save the short barrel specials for my snub Mdl. 19.

[Ex-MA Hole]

I love my 642 and 637.

That said, I STRONGLY urge no shooters not to try them.

[280plus]

I'd never urge anyone not to try them, I just think it sucks he had no idea what he was buying and Cabela's did nothing to let him in on it. I place it more on the inexperienced people they put behind the counter. Even sadder is S&W is right up the road in Springfield MA and if he had known better he could have gone up there and tried a few first before he bought and put big money into the one he has. Basically I told him exactly what Avenger said, great pocket carry but not al lot of fun to shoot for an extended session. I told him it's an all around great carry / defense weapon and should he ever have to use it for that purpose he won't feel any recoil anyways. He said, "But if I can't practice with it how can I be sure I'll hit my target?" 

He may be new but he's not dumb. 

[Standing Wolf]

I said, "That gun is made out of aluminum." He said, "It is?" He had no idea.

[consumer, shrewd] Oh. Is that like a metal, or more like wood? [/consumer]

[280plus]

[consumer, shrewd] Oh. Is that like a metal, or more like wood? [/consumer]

True, very true. I blame Obama... 

[HankB]

A good part of the problem with airweight .38s is the tiny, hard grips they often come with.

I have a 340Sc and when shooting .357s, it hurt with the original grips.

I added a set of Crimson Trace laser grips (IIRC, the model number is LG305) which cover the backstrap of the gun with a rubber cushion. They're also about 1/4" longer, which really doesn't have any impact on pocket carry. With these in place, shooting a cylinder or two of my standard carry load (Winchester 145 grain Silvertip .357) is merely unpleasant rather than painful, and every .38 load I've tried is fun.

It's been written that a pistol should be comforting, rather than comfortable, and the 340Sc fits that description; it's my "always" gun, meaning when I'm away from home and NOT in a place where concealed carry is prohibited, it's in my pocket.

[MechAg94]

That funny, I just bought a S&W Airweight 38 and I like it.  I was already aware of the ammo/recoil issue though. :)

I have had a S&W 640 small frame steel pistol in 357 magnum.  That little pistol shoots okay in 38 special, but 357 mag just about hurts your wrist.  I liked it because it was small and I figured I wouldn't notice the recoil when I really needed it.  I got the Airweight simply because I wanted one a bit lighter for carry.  I actually find it fairly comfortable to shoot standard 38 ammo through either gun.  357 and 38+P are a bit rough.  This coming from a person who hates compact 40 cal pistols because of the recoil. 

My Airweight cost $399.  Everyone had them for that price at the show after Christmas.  That was the main reason I went ahead and bought it.

On the other hand, I do agree that new shooters should not get one that small; certainly not as a first gun.  I also have a larger frame 357 snubby that is a good shooter.  I am not too accurate with it, but I think it is a fine defensive pistol.

[280plus]

He did have the crimson trace grips. He was a little surprised that even with laser sights he had a hard time hitting the target.

[41magsnub]

He did have the crimson trace grips. He was a little surprised that even with laser sights he had a hard time hitting the target.

It's amazing how things like proper grip and trigger technique still matter with all the fancy gizmos!

[AJ Dual]

My all-steel .357 SP101 would make my hand bleed after just five shots. God I loved how it felt and pointed, except at the moment of shooting it. Dehorning the edges where the triggerguard intercepted the frame might have quelled the bleeding, but it just wasn't worth the trouble to me.

I've never been interested in any of the light weight snubbies after that experience. I still have a nice stainless S&W Mod 60, from my grandfather's estate, but all it'll ever see are .38 wadcutters as "an example of the breed".

It has a special place in family lore, because my maternal grandfather wore it on his belt to answer the door when a boy who was rumored to have gotten a girl pregnant came calling to take my aunt out on a date. He was a minor legend around Bay View WI thereafter. 

[41magsnub]

It's the 135gr +P that is the henchman.  The "must have hottest round" derangement makes a potentially bad situation worse.  After simulating smacking the palm of my hand with a piece of rebar for a couple cylinders in my 85 Ti I went to the Nyclad standard velocity rounds and save the short barrel specials for my snub Mdl. 19.

This!  I quit carrying those and moved down to standard pressure 38 special because they are just too painful in my 438.

[Brad Johnson]

When you're carrying, it can't be small enough or light enough.  If you have to use it, it can't be big enough or powerful enough.

Brad

[280plus]

Probably so I'd say. 

[BryanP]

Airweights work for some people.  I carried a S&W 638 for quite a while, but I never did shoot it well.  I finally gave up on it and replaced it with a 649 (J frame .357, stainless steel).  Firing .38+P through that is easier than firing standard .38's through the 638.  Firing .357 in it is about like firing the .38+P in the 638.  It's a bit heavy, but I'm adjusting to pocket carry with it, and it makes those 135grn .38+P rounds very controllable.

On the other hand, I find the Kahr PM9, which is pretty darned airweight, to be very controllable.  Once I've had a chance to test some proper carry ammo in it and not just fmj I may start carrying it instead of the 649 for a bit and see how I like it.

[280plus]

You all need to go up to Springfield MA and shoot a .32 mag at S&W. Let's pick a day and all meet there together.   

I'm telling you, it's really not that much better than the .38 but it is better. I'd bet most of you would say what most people say the first time they shoot it, "Wow!" And many of them don't want to shoot it again. My opinion is it's actually a little snappier than the .38 but to me it seems the .38 has more muzzle rise and takes a tad longer to get back on target. And I've never had a jumped crimp. The federal and other mainstream ammo is junk compared to the Georgia Arms stuff though and none of it is cheap. We clocked the GA 100 gr out of mine at 977 fps. The guy with the clock was impressed. 

[French G.]

I can't get worked up about the Airweights, my 642 is tame with 38+p. It is however still not a beginner's gun for myriad reasons. I have a problem with the "Scareweight" guns. A .357 ought to weigh more than 12 ounces loaded. I'm going to get one though if I find someone who is scared of it and wants to sell it. I am seriously thinking of taking one of those 340s and removing the front of the trigger guard. Not sure how that would affect frame rigidity, but I could shoot those little .357s  without discomfort if the back of my trigger finger didn't eat the guard every shot. One cylinder is usually enough to draw blood. The rest of the recoil is not so bad.

[vaskidmark]

You all need to go up to Springfield MA and shoot a .32 mag at S&W. Let's pick a day and all meet there together.   

I'm telling you, it's really not that much better than the .38 but it is better. I'd bet most of you would say what most people say the first time they shoot it, "Wow!" And many of them don't want to shoot it again. My opinion is it's actually a little snappier than the .38 but to me it seems the .38 has more muzzle rise and takes a tad longer to get back on target. And I've never had a jumped crimp. The federal and other mainstream ammo is junk compared to the Georgia Arms stuff though and none of it is cheap. We clocked the GA 100 gr out of mine at 977 fps. The guy with the clock was impressed. 

.32 H&R Magnum is "soft" in my perception of felt recoil, and .327 Federal Magnum is just getting into the range of "snappy".  I still rate most .380 as more snappy that either of them.  Given that .327 Federal Magnum seems to have ballistics comparable to the venerable .357 with less felt recoil I am very happy with it.  YMMV.

It's just too bad that the Charter Arms revolvers in .327 are not yet up to being worth bothering with (ask me how I know) and the new S&W is over $1K. 

stay safe.

skidmark