Author Topic: Cavalry Arms is no more.  (Read 9265 times)

GigaBuist

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,345
    • http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/
Re: Cavalry Arms is no more.
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2010, 09:10:35 PM »
Pure conjecture, but it would seem to me that Cav just decided "Hell, we got inspected, we're not due again for several years..." not thinking the ATF would actually follow up.  ;/

Up until the asset forfeiture occurred they'd been getting conflicting answers on what they had to do to remain compliant with the law.  The document we're getting all this from is from 2008, at the time of the "raid" I believe.

AJ Dual

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,162
  • Shoe Ballistics Inc.
Re: Cavalry Arms is no more.
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2010, 09:52:39 PM »
True, and it's the rather odious practice of civil forfiture where the goods themselves are "charged".

However there also seems to be some potential that the complaint that the ATF was being "confusing" just means a factor of Cav Arms wanting to hear what they wanted to. Even when you take a huge grain of salt, or distrust the ATF and fed.gov completely, there are a lot of pretty easily verifiable material facts that the complaint alleges that look very bad for Cav Arms.

I have ZERO love for the ATF, but if even one of the allegations was true, then these guys were major screwups.

For all I know the plea deal was a gift, because the prosecutor believes they really aren't "gun-runners", just incapable of following directions and maintaining records.








I promise not to duck.

GigaBuist

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,345
    • http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/
Re: Cavalry Arms is no more.
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2010, 11:25:47 PM »
For all I know the plea deal was a gift, because the prosecutor believes they really aren't "gun-runners", just incapable of following directions and maintaining records.

I figure this is very likely.  The sales to the out of state buyer were still kept in Arizona which leads me to believe that they really thought they were in compliance with the law.  Otherwise they'd have just let the guy truck them back to CA.  Though I don't really understand how they thought it was legal.

Inventory control was also obviously a problem.  What with the ATF finding a "WHEREISITNOW" file on one of their computers.  I've seen, first hand, how difficult it is for a company to keep track of inventory.  At one client's place the software would get so far off track he admitted he'd just hire a bunch of illegal aliens now and again to count parts.  In another shop everything shut down once a year for a manual parts count.  They'd even pull mangers making 6 figures over to do it.  Both places were probably about as big as Cav Arms was.

Seems like a simple problem to solve but in practice it isn't.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Cavalry Arms is no more.
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2010, 07:50:13 AM »
the letter saying they were gonna comply then getting caught doing what they busted you for a second time looks bad
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,869
Re: Cavalry Arms is no more.
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2010, 10:11:16 AM »
I can't imagine it would be that horrible to have AZP mail them one mold to be locked up at Cav Arms premises, finish all the left halves. Send Cav Arms the other half FIRST via UPS, FedEx, or USPS, THEN Cav Arms releases the second mold to AZP... File away the mailing shipping receipts if they ever get audited by the ATF again to prove that AZP never had both molds or both halves of the receivers at once.

Half the mold was only a 50% "firearm" (in the vein of an 80% receiver which are legal without FFL...) and as an 07 FFL, no problem for Cav to have both whenever they wanted.
I agree it wasn't impossible, but if you found another maker or figured out another solution, it is a probably you don't have to manage. 

I do environmental reporting at my plant and have sat through a couple of audits.  It is one thing to misplace some paperwork, but if you don't follow your own procedures, that is bad.  Repeat violations are also bad.  I imagine those guys are tame compared to ATF and prosecutors who already assume you are a criminal.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,987
Re: Cavalry Arms is no more.
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2010, 10:50:30 AM »
Quote
I can't imagine it would be that horrible to have AZP mail them one mold to be locked up at Cav Arms premises, finish all the left halves. Send Cav Arms the other half FIRST via UPS, FedEx, or USPS, THEN Cav Arms releases the second mold to AZP... File away the mailing shipping receipts if they ever get audited by the ATF again to prove that AZP never had both molds or both halves of the receivers at once.

Half the mold was only a 50% "firearm" (in the vein of an 80% receiver which are legal without FFL...) and as an 07 FFL, no problem for Cav to have both whenever they wanted.

Especially since they're only down the street from each other, and only deal with a few thousand receivers a year.

A half-ton pickup with a U-haul trailer could move the 50% receivers and shuttle the left/right molds between the CA office and the AZP factory.

Another solution would be to still require the upper pin and trigger pin holes to be drilled at CA rather than molded at AZP.  Then both halves could have been made by AZP at will.

Lots of fairly simple solutions for a small, nimble company.  The owner was a dumbazz.

Still doesn't erase the fact that ATF policies are sub-human.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!