2010 Census....Penalties for not participating?

[Grandpa Shooter]

We were away from our camp for most of a day and came home to find someone from the Census Bureau had come past our KEEP OUT sign way down at the road, walked up onto our porch, and stuck a plastic bag saying 2010 Census under the door handle.  Huh?  Since when are they allowed to trespass on private property?

Since we don't live here, using it only occasionally as the mood strikes, I have no intention of seeing what is in the bag.  I think it might have fallen into the burn barrel, but I don't know that for sure.

What questions are you legally required to answer?  I don't recall ever getting any census stuff before this so I really don't know.

[TechMan]

I guess private property doesn't mean anything to the .gov

Any how according to howstufworks.com

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question345.htm


What happens if I don't fill out my census form?
Browse the article What happens if I don't fill out my census form?

In the United States, the census is officially a big deal (see How the Census Works to learn exactly how big a deal it is). Originally, the census was meant to be a way to count everyone so that the members of the House of Representatives could be allocated properly to the states. Every 10 years there would be a count, and states with more people got more members in the House. Over time, the government has gotten significantly more complicated, and today, the federal government allocates money to states for all sorts of programs. Something like $100 billion gets distributed every year, and quite a bit of it is distributed based on population. The census provides the only official head count.

Someone is very likely to notice if you do not fill out and return your form. After April 1 in a census year, all of the responses received by the U.S. Census Bureau will be compared to major lists of U.S. residences. If your response has not been received -- or if you didn't complete all the questions on your form -- someone from the census will contact you for that information. The census is a $6.5 billion dollar project. They can afford to be thorough!

If you refuse to give out the information or you deliberately give inaccurate information, you can be in legal trouble. According to United States Code, Title 13 (Census), Chapter 7 (Offenses and Penalties), SubChapter II, if you're over 18 and refuse to answer all or part of the Census, you can be fined up to $100. If you give false answers, you're subject to a fine of up to $500. If you offer suggestions or information with the "intent to cause inaccurate enumeration of population," you are subject to a fine of up to $1,000, up to a year in prison, or both. Here's the official verbiage:

      221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

    * (a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

    * (b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.

    * (c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.

      Sec. 222. Giving suggestions or information with intent to cause inaccurate enumeration of population

      Whoever, either directly or indirectly, offers or renders to any officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof engaged in making an enumeration of population under subchapter II, IV, or V of chapter 5 of this title, any suggestion, advice, information or assistance of any kind, with the intent or purpose of causing an inaccurate enumeration of population to be made, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

These links will help you learn more:

    * U.S. Census Bureau
    * American FactFinder
    * United States Historical Census Data Browser

    * How the Census Works
    * How Income Taxes Work
    * How the U.S. Draft Works

[Boomhauer]

We were away from our camp for most of a day and came home to find someone from the Census Bureau had come past our KEEP OUT sign way down at the road, walked up onto our porch, and stuck a plastic bag saying 2010 Census under the door handle.  Huh?  Since when are they allowed to trespass on private property?

Since we don't live here, using it only occasionally as the mood strikes, I have no intention of seeing what is in the bag.  I think it might have fallen into the burn barrel, but I don't know that for sure.

What questions are you legally required to answer?  I don't recall ever getting any census stuff before this so I really don't know.

They dropped off a census form at our occasionally used lakehouse last time around. Ignoring it brought no penalties. I'm certain that you would be safe treating your occasionally used property as same?

And we will be giving our standard answer of "4 adults and 1 child live here. Now go away." this year.

I guess private property doesn't mean anything to the .gov

The tax assessor can slither all over your property, too. Came home one day to find a Jeep Cherokee one day with a County Tax Office sign on it. Caught him 'round back with a tape measure. I never knew they did that until that day.

[Scout26]

What questions are you legally required to answer?  

Well if you listen to libertarians, just number and ages of people living there, (per the US Constitution).

However, Congress has passed all kinds of laws (see answer above), that failure to follow can potentially cause Humour Impaired Agents of the Dot Gov^tm to pay you a visit and cause them to remove quite a few of those green flat paper things from your wallet and/or change your place of residence to one of their choosing.  

Stomping of puppies and kicking of kittens by the aforementioned HIAOTDG is always an option, YMMV.

[TechMan]

The tax assessor can slither all over your property, too. Came home one day to find a Jeep Cherokee one day with a County Tax Office sign on it. Caught him 'round back with a tape measure. I never knew they did that until that day.

What was Mr. assessor measuring?  Our county auditor is in love with taking pictures of all of the houses in the county.  He even hires a service with vans that go around and take the pictures.

[Boomhauer]

What was Mr. assessor measuring?  Our county auditor is in love with taking pictures of all of the houses in the county.  He even hires a service with vans that go around and take the pictures.

he was measuring the exterior dimensions of the house...

[TechMan]

Grandpa Shooter,
According to http://2010.census.gov/partners/pdf/brochure_HowPeopleAreCounted.pdf

People on the move

Living Situation

Staying at more than one place
(like a vacation home) or at a
transitory location such as
recreational vehicle (RV) parks,
campgrounds, marinas, racetracks,
circuses or carnivals

Where they are counted

In the residence in which they
live and sleep most of the time

In the residence in which they
are staying on Census Day, if
time is divided equally

[Tallpine]

Well, if you never even saw it, then you could hardly fill it out, right ? 

I guess we will find out.  I wrote "3" in the number of persons box and mailed in the form.  That's all the information that they are going to get.  One has to draw a line somewhere, and this may be it.  Watch the news if you don't hear from me 

The whole census thing is a joke anyway, despite the millions that they are spending on it.  Last year some of my neighbors had the gps folks show up, but we never saw them.  The guy that came by last week didn't have our address or location on his map.  He just bumbled up the driveway (on foot as it is so muddy).  He asked if this was ## xyz which is a competely different road.  He had no idea even where he was at, and who knows if he ever found his way back to down.

He only had a half dozen or so addresses listed on his gps generated map, when there are about 50 houses out here.     I'm thinking that the gps sneaks just hit a few houses and then called it good.  So I guess that they don't yet have the coordinates to hit my house with a missile.

As the old saying goes, be thankful we don't get all the government that we pay for. 

[Grandpa Shooter]

Well, if you never even saw it, then you could hardly fill it out, right ? 

I guess we will find out.  I wrote "3" in the number of persons box and mailed in the form.  That's all the information that they are going to get.  One has to draw a line somewhere, and this may be it.  Watch the news if you don't hear from me 

The whole census thing is a joke anyway, despite the millions that they are spending on it.  Last year some of my neighbors had the gps folks show up, but we never saw them.  The guy that came by last week didn't have our address or location on his map.  He just bumbled up the driveway (on foot as it is so muddy).  He asked if this was ## xyz which is a competely different road.  He had no idea even where he was at, and who knows if he ever found his way back to down.

He only had a half dozen or so addresses listed on his gps generated map, when there are about 50 houses out here.     I'm thinking that the gps sneaks just hit a few houses and then called it good.  So I guess that they don't yet have the coordinates to hit my house with a missile.

As the old saying goes, be thankful we don't get all the government that we pay for. 

What you related is about how it is out here.  They wander around on what they think are roads, stumble up driveways and shove stuff where they can.  There are no services out here, folks don't post their street addresses at the street (dirt jeep track), and there are no mail boxes to knock over moving houses.  Nobody drives up dirt roads to a house out here unless they are a complete idiot.

I did go on google maps the other day and our place doesn't even show, but some others do.

[seeker_two]

I will be answering mine as follows:

"Two adults. No children.  And we don't like trespassers.....unless they're properly seasoned and cooked over an open fire....."

That should answer all their questions..... 

[Boomhauer]

What you related is about how it is out here.  They wander around on what they think are roads, stumble up driveways and shove stuff where they can.  There are no services out here, folks don't post their street addresses at the street (dirt jeep track), and there are no mail boxes to knock over moving houses.  Nobody drives up dirt roads to a house out here unless they are a complete idiot.

Just to let you know, your property is probably GPS tagged by now. That's something the Census takers are doing now. They started the preliminary preparations a while back last year (remember the census taker that hung himself and scrawled "Fed" on his stomach? That was around that time)

I know I scared the crap out of the census guy when he came to get the GPS readings. He rung the doorbell and I went and cranked open the bay window and growled "What!?". He almost fell off the porch backing up and holding his ID up and going "I'm just a census taker!"

[Tallpine]

Just to let you know, your property is probably GPS tagged by now. That's something the Census takers are doing now. They started the preliminary preparations a while back last year (remember the census taker that hung himself and scrawled "Fed" on his stomach? That was around that time)

I know I scared the crap out of the census guy when he came to get the GPS readings. He rung the doorbell and I went and cranked open the bay window and growled "What!?". He almost fell off the porch backing up and holding his ID up and going "I'm just a census taker!"

The old guy that came to my place a couple days ago didn't have a gps.  He had to write down my address because he didn't have our place on the map (generated from the gps canvassing last year, presumably).  He really only even found our house because he thought he was somewhere else 

The stupid thing is that they could have gotten all the address information from the county if they had bothered, but instead they spend millions to have idiots run around with gps units.

The dogs raised a fuss and I met him down by the power pole (GS, you know where I'm talking about) so he didn't come too close to the house.  He actually even said "we don't need to know who you are, just how many."  Well, that's all the information I put on the form 

Oh, and he didn't say anything about my hogleg 

I did go on google maps the other day and our place doesn't even show, but some others do.

The google map for our area is about five years out of date.

[Grandpa Shooter]

If they really want to find me, all they have to do is track my cell phone usage.  That will give them the location of the cabin, the camp, and the motor home.  The cell phone companies are not allowed to activate a phone which is not GPS enabled.  Courtesy of .gov.

[Dannyboy]

You do know that your "Keep Out" and "No Trespassing" signs are pretty much meaningless, right?  Sure, if some scumbag happens to pass through your land and you catch him, you can probably have him prosecuted.  But it really doesn't work that way with gov't types.  Do you really think you're gonna have a gov't type, no matter how obscure their function, prosecuted for trespassing?  How about the cop who comes to your door asking about the UFO spotted in your area?  You gonna have him busted too?  Or, what about the pizza guy that gets lost?  And, yes, I realize you live somewhere in the middle of nowhere but that really isn't the point.

[dogmush]

So my annoyingly liberal father-in law isa actually managing the Census office in Minneapolis, and I recently got to ask him about this very thing.  After we got past his rather confused "Why wouldn't you want to answer, it helps you get your federal entitlments?" (Different worldview there, to say the least) He broke down for me the different census stuff.

The 2010 Census is 1 form, 10 questions per person.  You can see it online here.  It is required by the law that you answer (and everyone in your household) all ten questions, enforcable by fines, and in extreme cases of fraud, jail.  I was told that the only folks that get jail for messing with the census are folk caught jerrymandering.  Fines are apparantlly pretty common if you repeatadly refuse to answer questions and are belligerant.

Here's the 10 Big Brother questions:
1. How many people live here?
2. Are you sure that's all the folks that live here?
3. Do you live in a trailer, house or 'partment?
4. What's your Phone number, 'cause your handwriting might suck?
5. What are the folks who live here's names?
6. Boy or Girl?
7. How old are y'all?
8. Y'all Latino?
9. What are you then?
10. Do you sometimes stay somewhere else?  We don't need this twice.

That's it.  I feel invaded just by typing this up.  Forgive me if I'm not being distrustful enough, but where's the huge invasive form?  Hell I want them to have this data, because when I argue with liberals that their entire world view is messed up, I NEED this kind of data to prove it.

Seriously, if you don't want to tell them your race, or admit you live in a trailer, risk the $100 fine.  But quit acting like your striking a blow for freedom by not answering 10 freaking questions.  But I'm told if you don't send it in, someone will come to your house.  So don't act all surprised this summer when some poor undergrad braves your mud and no tresspassing signs to get the info.

Now, the census folks are also sending out something called the American Community Survey.  It's much more in-depth, goes into finacial things, and things like comute times and how many cars you own.  It's also voluntary.  If you get one of those and don't want to take it, round file it. They'll just keep sending them out to different addresses untill they get the sample size they feel is accaptable.  No one will care.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

way to throw a bucket of wet mud on the revolutionary fire!    spoilsport!

[seeker_two]

Thanks....that changes my answers a little...

Here's the 10 Big Brother questions:
1. How many people live here? Two adults...four if you think dogs are people.
2. Are you sure that's all the folks that live here? Yep...or it will be by sunset.
3. Do you live in a trailer, house or 'partment? I can live just about anywhere.
4. What's your Phone number, 'cause your handwriting might suck? -----. Mail is the best way to reach me.
5. What are the folks who live here's names? Don't you know?....you mailed it here.
6. Boy or Girl? Depends on my mood.
7. How old are y'all? Old enough to know that it's impolite to ask someone their age
8. Y'all Latino? Nope...but I will do yardwork for the right price.
9. What are you then? American. I don't do the hypen-stuff.
10. Do you sometimes stay somewhere else?  We don't need this twice. Nope. And I'm only doing this form this one time, anyway.

[robear]

I remember in 2000 there was a "long form" with a BUNCH of much more detailed questions: what job, income, what kind of car you drive, education, military service, etc.. 

Is there one of those this time?

[Tallpine]

Well, I will answer what I damn well please or not.  They will be the ones that make a big deal of it, not me. 

If they bother coming back to try to get more information, then I should just start speaking in Gaelic 

[vaskidmark]

Thanks....that changes my answers a little...
 

Here's the 10 Big Brother questions:
1. How many people live here? Two adults...four if you think dogs are people.
2. Are you sure that's all the folks that live here? Yep...or it will be by sunset.
3. Do you live in a trailer, house or 'partment? I can live just about anywhere Yes.
4. What's your Phone number, 'cause your handwriting might suck? -----. Mail is the best way to reach me Nunya.
5. What are the folks who live here's names? Don't you know?....you mailed it here Nunya.
6. Boy or Girl? Depends on my mood Yes.
7. How old are y'all? Old enough to know that it's impolite to ask someone their age Nunya
8. Y'all Latino? Nope...but I will do yardwork for the right price Nunya.
9. What are you then? American. I don't do the hypen-stuff.
10. Do you sometimes stay somewhere else?  We don't need this twice. Nope. And I'm only doing this form this one time, anyway Nunya.

Went & fixed it for ya!  And no worries, 'cause each & every question was given a full, complete, honest & truthful (that's four (4) if you weren't counting) answer.  Gonna be hard to say I need to pay a fine when I not only answered their questions, but did so three extra times & never even suggested they oughta pay me for the additional answers.


All they need to know is how many folks liver here so they can figure out how many Members of the House of Representatives to add or cut from my state.  After they get past that, it's all intrusive.  Maybe not to the point that I'm going to declare war over it, but it's still intrusive.

Dept. of Commerce wants to know what the standard of living is based on how many TVs I do or don't have, or if my indoor plumbing flushes or not, they can explain to me why knowing that is so durned important.

Here in Virginia we also have the "School Census" that's used to determine how much tax money is collected to build & fund schools & their associated expenses.  I put down "ZERO" for number of kids of any age and obliterate all the identifying data except that which will just barely identify the school district.  (In my case it's the street name - every other part of the mailing address & any "anonymous identifier" numbers on the form are physicall cut out.)  The point, again, is that there is a bare minumum of information they need, and fishing for any more just aint gonna happen at this address.

stay safe.

skidmark

[Brad Johnson]

It says the form must be complete and the answers correct.  Doesn't mentioned a word about them having to be relevant. 

1. How many people live here?
More than zero, less than two.

2. Are you sure that's all the folks that live here?
Depends.  Sometimes the voices seem so real.

3. Do you live in a trailer, house or 'partment?
It doesn't have wheels and I don't pay rent.  You do the math.

4. What's your Phone number, 'cause your handwriting might suck?
My handwriting does suck.  My number is in the book.

5. What are the folks who live here's names?
My name is the one assigned at birth by my parents.

6. Boy or Girl?
No thanks.  I hate kids.

7. How old are y'all?
One billion three hundred twenty four million twelve thousand seconds

8. Y'all Latino?
Tried it but the bandanas clashed with my suit.

9. What are you then?
65% oxygen
18% carbon
10% hydrogen
3% nitrogen
1.5% calcium
1.2% phosphorous
0.2% potassium
0.2% sulfer
0.2% chlorine
0.1% sodium
0.05% magnesium
3.8g iron
less than 0.05% each cobalt, copper, zinc, and iodine
less than 0.01% each selenium and flourine
(all percentages are by mass)

10. Do you sometimes stay somewhere else?  We don't need this twice.
Holiday Inn Express is nice. (and you should feel fortunate I took the time to do this even once)

Brad

[coppertales]

I am hearing impared so calling me won't work.  I do answer the phone but I never conduct business of any kind over the phone.  I have a camp in the woods and my motorhome is parked there.  I wonder if they will put two questionairs on them....chris3

[Nitrogen]

You realise that the Census helps determine how much representation you get in the House, and how a lot of tax money is spent and allocated, right?  It's also one of the few things our federal government does that it's directly mandated to do by the constitution (Article 1, Section 2 iirc)

This administration actually did away with the long form of the census.  To give you an idea of what the long form was under Bill Clinton, check this out:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:S979SWnLKEEJ:www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d-61b.pdf+long+form+census&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESj5iu-p6dCboAxvy78dhdbPm_TGXdeD-eDRs30r4CzEFc707daTcDMyqO5NkO7FRMrV_B-F6DrM8tez71bT_AkOmVEkVSum_dM-bX4-L1Vqqn95QRHU0eMmmxjclfIK7vnNVCdx&sig=AHIEtbRDp1znmZ9tuIVVdU78Gqqz0b-7Pw


Here's the ACTUAL text of the 2010 census questions for reference:

How many people were living or staying in this house, apartment, or mobile home on April 1, 2010?

We ask this question to help get an accurate count of the number of people in the household on Census Day, April 1, 2010. The answer should be based on the guidelines in the 'Start here' section. We use the information to ensure response accuracy and completeness and to contact respondents whose forms have incomplete or missing information.

Were there any additional people staying here April 1, 2010 that you did not include in Question 1?

Asked since 1880. We ask this question to help identify people who may have been excluded in the count provided in Question 1. We use the information to ensure response accuracy and completeness and to contact respondents whose forms have incomplete or missing information.

Is this house, apartment, or mobile home: owned with mortgage, owned without mortgage, rented, occupied without rent?

Asked since 1890. Homeownership rates serve as an indicator of the nation's economy. The data are also used to administer housing programs and to inform planning decisions.

What is your telephone number?

We ask for a phone number in case we need to contact a respondent when a form is returned with incomplete or missing information.

Please provide information for each person living here. Start with a person here who owns or rents this house, apartment, or mobile home. If the owner or renter lives somewhere else, start with any adult living here. This will be Person 1. What is Person 1's name?

Listing the name of each person in the household helps the respondent to include all members, particularly in large households where a respondent may forget who was counted and who was not. Also, names are needed if additional information about an individual must be obtained to complete the census form. Federal law protects the confidentiality of personal information, including names.

What is Person 1's sex?

Asked since 1790. Census data about sex are important because many federal programs must differentiate between males and females for funding, implementing and evaluating their programs. For instance, laws promoting equal employment opportunity for women require census data on sex. Also, sociologists, economists, and other researchers who analyze social and economic trends use the data.

What is Person 1's age and Date of Birth?

Asked since 1800. Federal, state, and local governments need data about age to interpret most social and economic characteristics, such as forecasting the number of people eligible for Social Security or Medicare benefits. The data are widely used in planning and evaluating government programs and policies that provide funds or services for children, working-age adults, women of childbearing age, or the older population.

Is Person 1 of Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin?

Asked since 1970. The data collected in this question are needed by federal agencies to monitor compliance with anti-discrimination provisions, such as under the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act. State and local governments may use the data to help plan and administer bilingual programs for people of Hispanic origin.

What is Person 1's race?

Asked since 1790. Race is key to implementing many federal laws and is needed to monitor compliance with the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act. State governments use the data to determine congressional, state and local voting districts. Race data are also used to assess fairness of employment practices, to monitor racial disparities in characteristics such as health and education and to plan and obtain funds for public services.

Does Person 1 sometimes live or stay somewhere else?

This is another question we ask in order to ensure response accuracy and completeness and to contact respondents whose forms have incomplete or missing information.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it.  There's far more information about me that the government gets, by law, that I have a far worse problem with than this.

[Tallpine]

You realise that the Census helps determine how much representation you get in the House

That's why I answered with the number. 

Let's see ... a h-aon, a dha, a trì - I think I know how many people are living in my house. 

Keeping track of the number of chickens is a little more difficult.

[Grandpa Shooter]

I am hearing impared so calling me won't work.  I do answer the phone but I never conduct business of any kind over the phone.  I have a camp in the woods and my motorhome is parked there.  I wonder if they will put two questionairs on them....chris3

Same case for me.  This time the motor home was at the camp, but usually it is at the cabin in the woods.  By the beginning of summer we will be headed North to mooch off some friends.  If they stop by the cabin, we won't be there and the gate is locked so they will have to leave it hanging somewhere hoping we will get it.  If they wait too long to come back here to the camp, we will be gone back to the cabin and will miss us, and the gate will be locked here too.

Yes I do consider anything other than the original mandate by Constitution to be not only invasive, but un Constitutional and therefore illegal.  The questions they are asking have more to do with politics than economics, and frankly I don't trust politicians.