Author Topic: Rules of engagement?  (Read 5974 times)

Phantom Warrior

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Re: Rules of engagement?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2010, 08:46:51 PM »
I agree with you but the issue I'm trying to address is people that aren't familiar with counterinsurgency that aren't in the military.  The American public.

RevDisk

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Re: Rules of engagement?
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2010, 08:52:24 PM »
I agree with you but the issue I'm trying to address is people that aren't familiar with counterinsurgency that aren't in the military.  The American public.

Considering that the govt, military and various other financial interests don't particularly understand or care about counterinsurgency, except for CYA...  Alleged, these being the folks whose jobs it is to be the experts and get it done aren't exactly familiar with COIN...  

You have an uphill battle.  Good luck, and I mean that.  I've long given up.  Now I get a healthy paycheck in part from supplying COIN equipment to various folks.  Not to be a shrill and I'm saying it because I bloody well mean it, we're providing excellent equipment for quite reasonable prices. 

"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

HankB

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Re: Rules of engagement?
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2010, 12:21:03 PM »
Blaming JAG for prosecutions is like blaming the police for speeding laws.
Actually, it's more like blaming a DA for misuse of prosecutorial discretion.
. . . We can't even find all the bad guys and there are new and different ones every day.   . . . To succeed in a counterinsurgency you have to get the people to like and trust you so they will stop trying to kill you and start telling you about the bad guys that still are.
This looks an awful lot like recognition that what we've been trying for over 8 years isn't working very well.
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roo_ster

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Re: Rules of engagement?
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2010, 01:54:31 PM »
Considering that the govt, military and various other financial interests don't particularly understand or care about counterinsurgency, except for CYA...  Alleged, these being the folks whose jobs it is to be the experts and get it done aren't exactly familiar with COIN...  

You have an uphill battle.  Good luck, and I mean that.  I've long given up.  Now I get a healthy paycheck in part from supplying COIN equipment to various folks.  Not to be a shrill and I'm saying it because I bloody well mean it, we're providing excellent equipment for quite reasonable prices. 

The following may either inspire pride in our armed services or despair due to the hopeless state of human institutions....



Like RevDisk, my company provides HW, SW, & services to .mil.  I do a lot of things, but my bread & butter is ops analysis.

I've been at it since 1999 for jfruser'scorp. In order to properly analyze HW, CONOPS, etc. and how it interacts I have had to interview servicemen on a pretty regular basis.  I have it down pat, these days, and usually get my shot soon after return form overseas. 

What I have seen, in addition to all sorts of other things, is an evolution of thought & practice over the years.  IOW, those who make decisions and influence the conduct of operations have, over time, adapted to improve their performance vis a vis the threat they currently face.

One might say, (derisively), "Whoopie-freaking-do.  How long did that take, again?  And they still have their heads up their fourth point of contact WRT <insert topic du jour>.  Pretty pathetic,in my opinion."  One would be correct.  The pace of adaptation is dog-slow.  "Pathetic" is accurate.

But, "pathetic" beats the sort of (non)adaptive (non)performance we have seen in other militaries facing similar situations.  I would describe them as "hopeless."

So, my conclusions are the following:
    * The US Armed Forces are pathetic when it comes to adaptation in the face of such irregular/asymmetric enemies.
    * Any other sizable military not working directly with the USA that has faced a similar foe has done so much worse as to be hopeless.

Not exactly something to get out the big ol' foam "We're Number One!" finger and wave it around with abandon.  Especially when a more accurate rallying cry would be, "We suck the least!" or "We're pathetic, but you're hopeless!"
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roo_ster

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RevDisk

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Re: Rules of engagement?
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2010, 02:17:05 PM »
But, "pathetic" beats the sort of (non)adaptive (non)performance we have seen in other militaries facing similar situations.  I would describe them as "hopeless."

So, my conclusions are the following:
    * The US Armed Forces are pathetic when it comes to adaptation in the face of such irregular/asymmetric enemies.
    * Any other sizable military not working directly with the USA that has faced a similar foe has done so much worse as to be hopeless.

Not exactly something to get out the big ol' foam "We're Number One!" finger and wave it around with abandon.  Especially when a more accurate rallying cry would be, "We suck the least!" or "We're pathetic, but you're hopeless!"

During my former career, I directly interacted and/or cross trained with over two dozen foreign militaries and paramilitary groups. 

This is the most accurate assessment of global military readiness I have read in a decade.

"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

wmenorr67

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Re: Rules of engagement?
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2010, 06:40:57 PM »
As an Intel Analyst who if I am having to shoot at bad guys alot of bad stuff has happened, I know that the ROE can be a pain in the ass.  But I do know that the ROE's are mission and theatre based.  I just hope that if we go and have to fight N. Korea and/or China we have a different ROE's since it will be a different fight.
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