Author Topic: Three cheers for Ponzi schemes, I mean, Social Security! (Read 5267 times)

tyme · « **on:** March 25, 2010, 04:16:41 PM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/business/economy/25social.html

"The bursting of the real estate bubble and the ensuing recession have hurt jobs, home prices and now Social Security.

"This year, the system will pay out more in benefits than it receives in payroll taxes, an important threshold it was not expected to cross until at least 2016, according to the Congressional Budget Office."

makattak · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2010, 04:20:01 PM »

Yep. Bush was an evil scaremonger when he pushed for Social Security reform in 2005.

It's ALL HIS FAULT now!

Balog · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2010, 04:50:50 PM »

We're so hosed. Even the baby boomers who brought this down on us.

lee n. field · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2010, 05:09:29 PM »

Quote

"This year, the system will pay out more in benefits than it receives in payroll taxes, an important threshold it was not expected to cross until at least 2016, according to the Congressional Budget Office."

I always figured it would go completely bust about when I was due to retire. I'm 54.

makattak · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2010, 07:23:33 PM »

Quote from: Balog on March 25, 2010, 04:50:50 PM

We're so hosed. Even the baby boomers who brought this down on us.

And despite the fact that I and my family are going to suffer, I can take at least a little solace in that fact.

RevDisk · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2010, 10:40:50 PM »

Quote from: lee n. field on March 25, 2010, 05:09:29 PM

I always figured it would go completely bust about when I was due to retire. I'm 54.

Sounds about right, actually. The IOU's are treasury securities. So for the first time, they're pulling money out of the general fund instead of adding money. That's not good.

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2010, 10:42:30 PM »

Quote

Even the baby boomers who brought this down on us.

It sure wasn't my idea.

Balog · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2010, 11:00:34 PM »

Quote from: Monkeyleg on March 25, 2010, 10:42:30 PM

It sure wasn't my idea.

Yeah, and I didn't vote for Obama, but this generation/group etc still bears responsibility for him.

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2010, 11:43:36 PM »

I'm eight years away from full eligibility, but I really have my doubts that I'll see anything from it. I suspect they're going to "fix it" by applying a number of changes, including eliminating the FICA ceiling and means testing. If I'm right, the only way I'd collect would be if I were dirt poor.

Mabs2 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2010, 12:18:03 AM »

Quote from: Monkeyleg on March 25, 2010, 11:43:36 PM

I'm eight years away from full eligibility, but I really have my doubts that I'll see anything from it. I suspect they're going to "fix it" by applying a number of changes, including eliminating the FICA ceiling and means testing. If I'm right, the only way I'd collect would be if I were dirt poor.

My plan from several years ago (I'm 23 now) was to put money away and not depend on government help at all when I get old.
If I had a steady job I'd be doing that. It was pretty obvious to me even at a younger age that SS wouldn't last, and if it did, with my luck, it'd only last until just before I needed it.

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2010, 12:32:24 AM »

Quote

It was pretty obvious to me even at a younger age that SS wouldn't last, and if it did, with my luck, it'd only last until just before I needed it.

When I was at that "younger age" of yours, I didn't think I'd live this long, given my "youthful indiscretions." Who knew?

Mabs2 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 26, 2010, 12:37:06 AM »

Quote from: Monkeyleg on March 26, 2010, 12:32:24 AM

When I was at that "younger age" of yours, I didn't think I'd live this long, given my "youthful indiscretions." Who knew?

Well, I've always been extremely boring.

RevDisk · « **Reply #12 on:** March 26, 2010, 09:57:01 AM »

Quote from: Monkeyleg on March 26, 2010, 12:32:24 AM

When I was at that "younger age" of yours, I didn't think I'd live this long, given my "youthful indiscretions." Who knew?

At pretty much any point in the last decade, NO ONE thought I'd live this long, given my "youthful indiscretions."

Thankfully, I like to plan for even the most remote and unlikely occasions, such as surviving to old age.

makattak · « **Reply #13 on:** March 26, 2010, 10:56:52 AM »

SADShooter · « **Reply #14 on:** March 26, 2010, 01:36:51 PM »

Keep in mind that SS is one dimension of the issue. Some .gov agencies and municipalities in Texas are reducing/withholding their contributions to established pension plans to make up budget shortfalls. If you're counting on work-related retirement plans (mine is mandatory) that could be another layer of pain when the rules are changed.

Inor · « **Reply #15 on:** March 26, 2010, 03:46:53 PM »

Quote from: SADShooter on March 26, 2010, 01:36:51 PM

Keep in mind that SS is one dimension of the issue. Some .gov agencies and municipalities in Texas are reducing/withholding their contributions to established pension plans to make up budget shortfalls. If you're counting on work-related retirement plans (mine is mandatory) that could be another layer of pain when the rules are changed.

Indeed. I have seen a few references to the government actually nationalizing private pension plans, 401Ks, IRAs, etc. to make up for the shortfall with Social Security. Of course, none of this is going to matter if the government keeps spending the way they are and the dollar fails.

Those of us in our 40's and 50's face some pretty strong headwinds to ever being able to retire. You poor bastards in your 20's and 30's don't stand a chance.

makattak · « **Reply #16 on:** March 26, 2010, 03:51:59 PM »

Quote from: Inor on March 26, 2010, 03:46:53 PM

Indeed. I have seen a few references to the government actually nationalizing private pension plans, 401Ks, IRAs, etc. to make up for the shortfall with Social Security. Of course, none of this is going to matter if the government keeps spending the way they are and the dollar fails.

Those of us in our 40's and 50's face some pretty strong headwinds to ever being able to retire. You poor bastards in your 20's and 30's don't stand a chance.

That's why some of us are trying to make alternative "retirement" plans that won't rely on the 401K.

coppertales · « **Reply #17 on:** March 26, 2010, 03:55:45 PM »

I get my first SS check next week......chris3

Inor · « **Reply #18 on:** March 26, 2010, 04:47:19 PM »

Quote from: makattak on March 26, 2010, 03:51:59 PM

That's why some of us are trying to make alternative "retirement" plans that won't rely on the 401K.

Are you a "prepper" Mak?

makattak · « **Reply #19 on:** March 26, 2010, 04:51:14 PM »

Quote from: Inor on March 26, 2010, 04:47:19 PM

Are you a "prepper" Mak?

No, although I might find that "fun", I doubt the usefulness.

Although, now that you mention it, I did ask for a dehydrator for my birthday...

RevDisk · « **Reply #20 on:** March 26, 2010, 06:43:02 PM »

Quote from: Inor on March 26, 2010, 03:46:53 PM

Indeed. I have seen a few references to the government actually nationalizing private pension plans, 401Ks, IRAs, etc. to make up for the shortfall with Social Security. Of course, none of this is going to matter if the government keeps spending the way they are and the dollar fails.

Those of us in our 40's and 50's face some pretty strong headwinds to ever being able to retire. You poor bastards in your 20's and 30's don't stand a chance.

Sir, I beg to differ. I'm in my 20's and making a healthy return on my investments.

I don't see the government nationalizing pensions, 401K's, etc. Ain't gonna happening. What might happen is the government may tax the hell out of them. That'd be legal, if unethical and unpopular.

Hutch · « **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2010, 09:42:23 AM »

Having read this thread along with another that reminds me of our long term financial mess.

RevDisk, my greatest fear is that we will all soon be millionaires. Srsly. This level of government debt has never, ever been redeemed with real wealth. You can be proud of the future-orientation and self discipline your savings plan represents, but don't think for a moment it is safe from the .gov predations. If they can't tax it, direct the investment, or flat-out confiscate it, they will debase its value. As Keynes said "In the end, we're all dead anyway".

I find myself in an interesting duality (not schizophrenia, nooooooo sir). When I listen to the angel on my shoulder, I am a fervent Dave Ramsay type, trying hard to eliminate my mortgage and pile up (dollar-denominated) wealth for my retirement. The imp on my shoulder says "Fool! You're re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!" Depending on the news of the week, sometimes the Imp gets his way. It's so hard when the voices in my head disagree....

zahc · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2010, 12:39:58 PM »

"'Backed by the full faith and credit of the US government' means that the government guarantees to pay you back, even if they have to take everything you have to do it"

--http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7auQEXTWomA

RevDisk · « **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2010, 02:51:32 PM »

Quote from: Hutch on March 28, 2010, 09:42:23 AM

I find myself in an interesting duality (not schizophrenia, nooooooo sir). When I listen to the angel on my shoulder, I am a fervent Dave Ramsay type, trying hard to eliminate my mortgage and pile up (dollar-denominated) wealth for my retirement. The imp on my shoulder says "Fool! You're re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!" Depending on the news of the week, sometimes the Imp gets his way. It's so hard when the voices in my head disagree....

Everything is a balancing act. I live well, if rather simply. I don't wail and moan at the thought of buying a good cigar, a decent bottle of wine and a book. You don't have to live like a monk hoarding all of your wealth.

Just balance it responsibility. Consider it preparing for all contingencies. The alternative is you trying to make ends meet on solely a Social Security check. That should scare you enough to shut the Imp up. Even today's check is not that great. What do you think it will be in X years?

Leatherneck · « **Reply #24 on:** March 28, 2010, 04:43:06 PM »

Quote

We're so hosed. Even the baby boomers who brought this down on us.

Pretty broad brush there, Pal. I just started drawing SS retirement pay, but I'm not at all certain the system will last long enough to pay me back the bucks I have contributed to the stupid system since 1955. I was born in 1943.

I don't recall ever being asked by anybody for permission to raid the SS account (at one time, my contributions were in a "trust fund")

Cheap shot to blame "the dammed baby boomers" for this country's financial situation. You should re-think that.

TC

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Author Topic: Three cheers for Ponzi schemes, I mean, Social Security! (Read 5267 times)