Safe type room

[never_retreat]

Ok so I have been out of safe space for a longtime. I moved in with the girlfriend that has a nice empty basement and an open mind to me finishing it off.
Here is the deal I want to build a room in one corner of the basement for the guns and reloading type stuff. About 12' sq.
If I ever have the money to get more safes they will just go into the room.
What would anyone recommend building the two exposed walls from, so they are semi secure.
Poured concrete is out of the question.
I don't need ultra high security just enough to slow someone down for 5-10 min. Cops are .2 miles out in a town that is no wider than 3 miles.

I was thinking studding it out, layer of plywood, some sort of steel mesh and than Sheetrock.
Plywood to prevent kick through.
Mesh to slow a saw.
Sheetrock for aesthetics.

And I was thinking of putting to studs very close to each other. 12" OC

I'm going to pick up a commercial steel door that will swing out.
I'll spend a few bucks on a high security deadbolt. And maybe integrate some of the Mag locks I have laying around.
I'm putting to door in a wall that is directly under the center beam of the house, so I will back up the jambs with steel from the beam to the floor and lagged into the cement.

What do you think?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

why is poured concrete out? you can get a pump for 400 bucks for an afternoon pour. fiber reinforced readymix would be less than a grand

[French G.]

Sounds nice. I imagine that a sandwich of plywood|heavy chainlink|plywood would slow things down. The door will be the weak point even with considerable hardening. Are the exterior walls above ground?

[never_retreat]

Sounds nice. I imagine that a sandwich of plywood|heavy chainlink|plywood would slow things down. The door will be the weak point even with considerable hardening. Are the exterior walls above ground?

The outside is only about 1' exposed. Its 8+ inches of poured concrete so its secure. No windows in the area.

[Gowen]

It's sounds like a great idea, but she is just a girlfriend.  It's your lifestyle, live it how you see fit.  I just want to warn you that if you get in a fight tonight, she can lock you out and you have no say.

[230RN]

scanr is right.  Change happens.  Don't improve anything you don't own without considering the risks of wasting your effort.  

Too many folks have gotten screwed by trying to recover their own stuff from someone else's place after change happens.

I speak from 71 years of life experience  --not only in my own life, but from valid "war stories" of others.

Consider any risks.  Consider any alternatives.

Terry, 230RN

[HankB]

IF I were going to spend time & money improving a space I didn't own with an eye to making a "secure room" . . . I would seriously consider making it a hidden secure room. There are a variety of ways to make a hidden door, from using paneling to a rotating book case; so in addition to strengthening the walls, I'd try to hide the fact that there even is a secure area down there.

[Bob F.]

Door should open in so you can't be trapped inside, if you indeed intend to use it as a "safe room"/stronghold. Just as a room for your safes, definitely open out.

You can actually get a safe door. Weld frame to overhead beam and bolt to concrete floor.

Stay safe, and consider scanr's comments.
Bob

[never_retreat]

It's sounds like a great idea, but she is just a girlfriend.  It's your lifestyle, live it how you see fit.  I just want to warn you that if you get in a fight tonight, she can lock you out and you have no say.

This is not a high budget project so the potential financial loss is not an issue.
Not having all my guns secure is not good.
Not having all my guns not handy is not good.
Having guns lying around my parents house 40 miles away is not good. (especially since they are not around a lot)(they don't shoot)
Not being able to shoot when I want because I don't have something is not good.

So I find more pluses with this than negatives.
And we have been with each other for a while, this is not a fling that I'm mooching on.

[mellestad]

IF I were going to spend time & money improving a space I didn't own with an eye to making a "secure room" . . . I would seriously consider making it a hidden secure room. There are a variety of ways to make a hidden door, from using paneling to a rotating book case; so in addition to strengthening the walls, I'd try to hide the fact that there even is a secure area down there.

Sweet.  Get some laser trip wires too, and some cameras.  That way if anyone steals your stuff you might luck out and record a Cathrine Zeta Jones moment.


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If you want cheap, yea, just go with wood.  The chain link fence between two sheets of plywood is a good idea.  Plywood-studs-chainlink-plywood.

[never_retreat]

I would seriously consider making it a hidden secure room. There are a variety of ways to make a hidden door, from using paneling to a rotating book case; so in addition to strengthening the walls, I'd try to hide the fact that there even is a secure area down there.

This would be difficult because the house is a ranch so it has one big rectangular basement. Chopping any piece out of it would be obvious. Being that it is completely empty besides a washer, dryer,furnace and water heater.
If we ever finish the whole basement I could build some nooks to stash stuff.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if you come out 8 to 12 feet and run a wall all the way across you can hide it real well  the dope boys do that and without a tape measure you never know

[never_retreat]

if you come out 8 to 12 feet and run a wall all the way across you can hide it real well  the dope boys do that and without a tape measure you never know

I know what your thinking with this. If I did this on one of the short sides of the basement I would have ductwork disappearing into a wall so it would be obvious. Also it would be a big room, even if it was only 8' deep it will still be 24' long. Way more than I need and would screw with other plans for completely finishing the basement.
Where my planed door is going to be will be in another room (laundry) when the job is done so It could be decoyed latter.

[sanglant]

if you come out 8 to 12 feet and run a wall all the way across you can hide it real well  the dope boys do that and without a tape measure you never know

if you really want it hidden.

[KD5NRH]

I don't need ultra high security just enough to slow someone down for 5-10 min. Cops are .2 miles out in a town that is no wider than 3 miles.

Put up the studs, anchoring well to the floor and ceiling, attach 3/4" plywood on both sides with good screws, plaster it and wallpaper so the seams and screws are hard to find.  Assuming you don't leave a gassed-and-ready chainsaw sitting just outside, that's going to slow the average burglar down by more than 10 minutes.  Good quality plywood is harder to break through than most people think.

[Jamisjockey]

if you come out 8 to 12 feet and run a wall all the way across you can hide it real well  the dope boys do that and without a tape measure you never know

I know what your thinking with this. If I did this on one of the short sides of the basement I would have ductwork disappearing into a wall so it would be obvious. Also it would be a big room, even if it was only 8' deep it will still be 24' long. Way more than I need and would screw with other plans for completely finishing the basement.
Where my planed door is going to be will be in another room (laundry) when the job is done so It could be decoyed latter.

I thought you just wanted to slow someone down?  Some crackhead or gangbanger in a hurry to fill a backpack and run to the pawn shop probably won't notice such a thing. 

[sanglant]

he probably want's to be able to show off, and not have to worry about it. but that don't come cheap.

[AJ Dual]

Hmm... if I had to build a safe-room and do it DIY with no pre-prepared products except for the door etc.

Metal stud construction.  Lay the sill plate with liquid nails and a gunpowder actuated nailgun. You can then put rebar horizontally in the holes put in the metal studs for wiring etc. And run vertical rebar between the studs wired to the horizontal pieces. I'd also drill holes into the floor slab for these vertical re-bar pieces to fit into.  I'd mount the wall where it meets the foundation wall with more liquid nails and expanding masonry anchors and lag-bolts.

Put the commercial steel door in now. Extra long screws/bolts hanging into the space between the metal studs.

Then, I'd sheath the wall by putting down 2' high strips of plywood horizontally, starting at the bottom and fill the spaces between the studs with hand-mixed concrete. Leave the surface of each pour rough so it grabs the next well, or maybe even put short rebar pegs in so the next layer can grab on. Just work at it until it's filled in.

I might do something to the floor joists above it too, but I don't know if I'd be that paranoid. Maybe some re-bar & pipes run through holes in the joists spaced at intervals, and some wire mesh etc.

I might be tempted to fill the metal door and it's frame with something hard dense and rigid if it would be practical to help it resist bending/crushing if attacked. Maybe pure grout mix.

[never_retreat]

Good Ideas there AJ.

I used steel studs many times and always thought of them as flimsy compared to wood.
But filling them with cement and re-bar is not that bad of an idea. plus it saves on having to form it and strip it.
I was thinking about the ceiling also, but again that is only an option for someone that has a lot of time to work at it. Cutting a hole in a floor above where you think a room might be, having to drop in a ladder, and still having to defeat a safe to get the good stuff.
Not likely.
This isn't the Italian Job.

[AJ Dual]

Good Ideas there AJ.

I used steel studs many times and always thought of them as flimsy compared to wood.
But filling them with cement and re-bar is not that bad of an idea. plus it saves on having to form it and strip it.
I was thinking about the ceiling also, but again that is only an option for someone that has a lot of time to work at it. Cutting a hole in a floor above where you think a room might be, having to drop in a ladder, and still having to defeat a safe to get the good stuff.
Not likely.
This isn't the Italian Job.

They're weaker under torsion. (They do wiggle and twist easily) However they're much stronger under deflection than wooden studs.

And of course, they'd fill completely with concrete if you filled the wall cavity.

[Fly320s]

That seems labor intensive and expensive. Why not just use common masonry blocks filled with concrete and rebar as needed?  Add a steel frame for the door if necessary.

[never_retreat]

That seems labor intensive and expensive. Why not just use common masonry blocks filled with concrete and rebar as needed?  Add a steel frame for the door if necessary.

Ya I was thinking this, but my masonry skills suck. I mean really suck. About the only thing I can do is slabs and stuff like that.
Whereas I could weld up a steel vault If I wanted to. To expensive though with todays steel prices. And heavy.
Even a 4x8 sheet of 1/2 inch is 650 Lbs. It would take too many people to help thus too many witnesses.

[freakazoid]

Just build a hidden room after that one to put the witnesses in and then you don't have to worry about them anymore. 

[AJ Dual]

Ya I was thinking this, but my masonry skills suck. I mean really suck. About the only thing I can do is slabs and stuff like that.
Whereas I could weld up a steel vault If I wanted to. To expensive though with todays steel prices. And heavy.
Even a 4x8 sheet of 1/2 inch is 650 Lbs. It would take too many people to help thus too many witnesses.

I tend to agree. Getting masonry to lay right and true is damned hard until you get good at it. And if you're threading rebar and filling all the voids in cinder-block with concrete, the materials expense and effort does not seem that much different to me.

Also, never_retreat might even be able to source scrap metal studs, rebar, and plywood for the project if he scrounges around. It does not have to be pretty, especially if he drywalls over it afterward. All it may cost him is the door, and he might find that at an architectural or building recycler.

[KD5NRH]

Even a 4x8 sheet of 1/2 inch is 650 Lbs. It would take too many people to help thus too many witnesses.

Use steel roof flashing and build it up in overlapping layers :)