THR Related question

[Ex-MA Hole]

I know, but I am at work and THR is blocked as it is an evil site.  Yes, that is dripping with sarcasm and annoyance.

One of my coworkers wants a shot gun for home defense.  I have NO knowledge in this area.  I need a quick education, please.  Explain the 12 guage, vs 20 gauge, etc.  What is "gauge", other than shell size?

Any idea for a cheap RELIABLE shottie?  As he puts it, he will put about 7-8 rounds through it to make sure it works, and then stick it under his bed.

He lives in the Boondocks of NH, and had a visitor the other day, and realized that my thoughts may not be that far off base after all.

I'm looking for overall suggestions.

He is leaning towards a used one.

[Brian Williams]

Gauge is how many lead balls per pound there are that are the diameter of the bore or the inside of the barrel.  12 gauge is 12 balls per pound, 20 gauge is a smaller diameter bore so has more balls per pound of lead.

As for a Shotgun for Home Defence any of the big 4, Remington 870, Winchester 1300, Mossberg 500 and the Ithaca 37.  look on that evil gunseller site and you will find good short barreled shotguns for any where from $200 to $500.  My guess is go to a good "toy " store and look on the used rack, I picked up my Win 1300 for $155 with a 22" turkey barrel and found a 22" rifled sighted on for $30 later.  

Stay away from the pistol gripped only monsters, they work only with practice and do not point well.

[garyk/nm]

www.shotgunworld.com  (check out the Tactical Forum)
Get yourself edjumacated!

[The Rabbi]

I highly recommend the Rem 870 Youth in 20ga.  I bought one for my son from Sports Academy for $240 out the door.  Reliable action, rugged, easy to operate, light recoil, and fits anyone.  I enjoyed shooting it and I am 6ft tall.

[280plus]

What Rabbi said! I have one myself. Short stock 20" barrel, light, fast. I take it down to the trap range now and then and tick off the people with the pricey guns. It's fun. Heh heh. I'm pretty fair at skeet with it too but don't practice enough.

I like #4 high brass turkey loads for defense myself. I tried some and IIRC got ~ a 6 " pattern at ~ 15 ft. and at 50 yds most pellets were on a regular cardbord idpa target and went clean through. It comes with a modified choke and that's what I've always used in it.

[Ex-MA Hole]

Thanks.

Whats a choke?

I TOLD you that I know NOTHING about shotguns!!!

[The Rabbi]

Thanks.

Whats a choke?

I TOLD you that I know NOTHING about shotguns!!!

"Choke" is what occurs when you buy an 870 at the local gun shop and then discover what the big box store sells the same item for.

No, really, choke means a constricting of the barrel to concentrate the shot.  Most chokes are screwed in to the end of the barrel.  Others know a whole lot more about them than I do.

[charby]

A good home defense shotgun would be a old police 870 wing master riot gun.  

I personally use two revolvers for home defence, but I have been thinking about getting a dedicated home defense shotgun. All my shotguns are field use or safe queens. All my shotguns have long barrels or scopes on them so they aren't the best choice for home defence but would get the job done if needed. I'm on the look out for the above mentioned firearm.

Charby

[K Frame]

Choke is what mtnbkr's daughter tries to do to me every time she sees me.

[hso]

Is he a big guy? Would he be sensitive to recoil? Does he want to go cheap or spend a little more money?

If he is recoil sensitive then a 20 guage semiauto gas operated SG would provide the least kick. He should avoid recoil operated SG since he might have a failure due to not bracing.

Short barrels of ~18" are more easily manouvered.

Defensive shotguns work well with straight cylinder chokes to keep from compressing the already tight shot pattern. You want to open your pattern, not compress it. House distances are so short that your shot doesn't get to open up much anyway.  

If he's competent to run a pump gun in a crisis then a used 870 Express would do well.

[Ex-MA Hole]

"Gauge is how many lead balls per pound there are that are the diameter of the bore or the inside of the barrel.  12 gauge is 12 balls per pound, 20 gauge is a smaller diameter bore so has more balls per pound of lead. "

Which is better for which purposes?

[brimic]

A stoeger coach gun might be a good choice- short barrels, no action to work between shots, no worry about jamming or short stroking it,  and priced about the same as a bottom of the line 870.

[The Rabbi]

A stoeger coach gun might be a good choice- short barrels, no action to work between shots, no worry about jamming or short stroking it,  and priced about the same as a bottom of the line 870.

But they kick like the devil is what I have heard.  Never fired one myself.  I will say they are tempting.

[brimic]

But they kick like the devil is what I have heard.

Yep. but that's something a person won't even notice when a person is jacked up on adrenalin and his ticker is pounding loundly in his throat at 120 beats/min.

[280plus]

Which is better for which purposes?

Now you've done it.

I prefer 20 ga because it is lighter, has less recoil and is therefore somewhat faster on the followup but smaller pattern/less pellets per shot size.

12 ga has more pellets and a bigger pattern but the recoil is more which slows down a good accurate followup. Especially if one is of a smaller / lighter build.

I've heard the military boys using shotguns prefer 12 ga for the knockdown power and wider coverage though.

I wonder if they're using "duckbills" at all these days.

[Brad Johnson]

In all honesty, for home defense I'd probably stick with a DA .357 revolver. Simpler to operate, simpler to keep stored, simpler to clean, and simpler to maneuver around in the dark with if you (heaven forbid) you ever need to use it.

Brad

[The Rabbi]

In all honesty, for home defense I'd probably stick with a DA .357 revolver. Simpler to operate, simpler to keep stored, simpler to clean, and simpler to maneuver around in the dark with if you (heaven forbid) you ever need to use it.

Brad

Yeah, but a .357mag revolver in confined spaces in the dark will be loud as anything and blinding in its flash.  Ditto with the 12ga.  I'd prefer 38+Ps or 20ga. Of course my HD shotgun is a 12ga but I use it for other things--if I ever get it back (Oleg, are you reading this??)

[Moondoggie]

Trying to generalize a comparison of gauges for you.....

Think of 20 ga as the 9mm of shotguns.....adequate for most purposes.

Think of 12 ga as the 44 Mag of shotguns...commonly accepted as a round that will knock the snot out of whatever it hits.

You can easily buy all types of ammo for different purposes from 1 oz slugs that leave the bbl @ 1200+ FPS to 00 buckshot that contains an oz of .357" pellets to #8 birdshot that holds 1 oz of tiny lead pellets.  They also sell "Reduced Recoil" slugs.  There are tgt loads and  game loads and defense loads.  Variety abounds.

Choke...doesn't matter what choke you have for a HD shottie and not all shotguns have screw-in choke tubes...some bbls are mfg'd with the constriction built in (fixed) in the bbl.  Screw-in (Interchangable) chokes = more $.

I have a Baikal coach gun; a dbl bbl side by side 20" 12 gauge.  It doesn't recoil that bad.  Nothing says "Serious business" like a double bbl shotgun, IMHO.

For a gun that only going to be fired for familiarization and then put under the bed, I'd recommend a Remmington 870 with 5 rds of mag capacity.  Second choice would be a SXS 12 gauge.

[K Frame]

A 20 gauge in tight spaces isn't exactly quite. In fact, you'll never be able to tell the difference in the ringing in your ears caused by the 12 vs the 20.

[Guest]

in close quarters,  the effects of the buisness end of either 12 or 20 gauge will be about the same.  

20 just saves you some recoil.

[Ex-MA Hole]

Moondogie- Thanks.  The 9mm comparison is EXACTLY what I wanted, but felt dumb asking for.  It's a language that I understand.

Thank you all for your insight and help.

(If you want to keep going, great, I will continue to learn, but I fell like I have enough basic knowledge to help him now)

[pauli]

20ga can do anything 12ga can do, it just takes more thought in ammo selection to do it.

the downside to 20ga is ammo availability. in my experience, it is Not Easy to find 20ga buckshot. my primary hd shotgun is a 20ga mossberg, and it's loaded with slugs - cause i just can't find 2.75" 20ga buck around here, and i'm not using birdshot. i've got 3" rounds, but they don't load smoothly, so they are out for hd.

for a healthy adult, go with 12ga whenever possible.

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

I'm quite happy with my Mossberg 500A.  ITt's a 12 gauge, 20 inch barrel, 7+1.  Yes, it has some fierce recoil with 3 inch shells, but if I'm fighting for my life, I'll deal with it.  For fun, I shoot 2 3/4 inch bird shot.

[cfabe]

Another happy mossberg owner here, 500ATP which is their 18" police version. I like the safety of the mossberg over the remington, it's a slider on top of the receiver instead of the one in the trigger guard. Mine cost me $150 used.

[middy]

the downside to 20ga is ammo availability. in my experience, it is Not Easy to find 20ga buckshot.

You ain't kiddin'.