My militia group vs. president of Brady Campaign, on Fox News.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Have them dress like a lawyer next time.  Trust me.  High dollar pinstripe suit.  Take up a damn collection if you have to.

And get it tailored to fit better. Pretty cheap to get done, very nice results.

[Jamisjockey]

Noted.  We have a Team Leader Meeting this coming Monday, and I will make this a top priority of discussion.  

The collection won't be necessary, though.  Despite the stereotype, the vast majority of us aren't anywhere near being poor.  

Not trying to insinuate that  
I splurged on one $400 suit.  Its my only one.  

And get it tailored to fit better. Pretty cheap to get done, very nice results.

Anymore, alot of suit places include that if you spend over a certain amount.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

something else to try?  practice sessions. get some guys who are sob's to ask hard questions to give him time to practice handling them. as perverse as this might sound get guys he doesn't like to pepper him with annoying questions.  its another form of training. if i lived close i'd volunteer to be the hostile interviewer. i has skills that one was an easy one  most won't be  look at old videos from folks who you'll be facing  treat em like game films

oh yea  tell him nice job keep up the good work for all of us  thanks!!

[Declaration Day]

I would gladly be our media liaison.  I'm fit, clean shaven, and have a nice suit. I am also well-spoken.......until you stick a camera in my face.  Then I'm like a deer in the headlights.  

[taurusowner]

Great idea C&SD.  Whats the phrase? "Have your drills be bloodless battles, and your battles bloody drills."

[GigaBuist]

I think it would have been a wee bit better if your rep were to blast out a quick (8 second) run down of how the national park carry thing came about, and then mention that we're just trying to keep things going in that direction.

Most folks hear the, "but Obama gave you national park carry!" line and think you're nuts if you still have worries about the Federal government and guns.  Being able to demonstrate complete knowledge of everything going on would help.  But I'm Wednesday night quarterbacking here.  Can't fault the guy for not going that way and honestly it might not have been a real issue.  I dunno.

That said, I'm really happy to see you guys doing this PR work and I think you're pushing the right message: You're not anti-government, you're for law and order, willing to assist police, etc.  One thing that I'll suggest in assisting in this is changing the "uniform."  No more camo for the woods stuff.  Maybe something blue that mirrors the MSP.  Or just jeans and a uniform polo shirt.  Men in blue keep things in order.  Men in camo break things and kill people.  Just an idea.

I'd absolutely love it if you got the public favor turned just enough that I could start thinking about opening up a West Michigan chapter of the org without folks thinking I'm nuts.

[GigaBuist]

Oh, another thing that I think might help with public perception:  Voluntarily "registering" guns with local police.

Not all of them, and it shouldn't be mandatory for joining the group, but submit a list of guns that your guys have that match up with what the local and state PD is trained on.  Let 'em know they can borrow them if need be in an emergency.  And open up the ammo stocks to 'em too.  Be pretty cool to wave a paper around in one hand explaining with the data on it.  Would help re-enforce the "we're not anti-government" angle a bit.

Might not be the best idea in the world.  Just an idea.

[kgbsquirrel]

Oh, another thing that I think might help with public perception:  Voluntarily "registering" guns with local police.

Not all of them, and it shouldn't be mandatory for joining the group, but submit a list of guns that your guys have that match up with what the local and state PD is trained on.  Let 'em know they can borrow them if need be in an emergency.  And open up the ammo stocks to 'em too.  Be pretty cool to wave a paper around in one hand explaining with the data on it.  Would help re-enforce the "we're not anti-government" angle a bit.

Might not be the best idea in the world.  Just an idea.

Seems like you would want a written agreement with them that should the police need to dip into militia materiel reserves that they have an obligation to adequately remunerate or resupply the equipment stockpiles to their original amounts. I'm thinking consumables here, ammunition stocks, canned foods, MRE's, the fuel for generators or heavy trucks if they use them.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Thank you and please extend my thanks to your organization for everything you are doing for all of us.

No kidding.  You guys are doing a world of good for all of us.  Thank you.

[Declaration Day]

I'd absolutely love it if you got the public favor turned just enough that I could start thinking about opening up a West Michigan chapter of the org without folks thinking I'm nuts.

There are already two chapters in your area.  WMVM (West Michigan Volunteer Militia) and WCMVM (West-Central Volunteer Militia).

And for woods training, the camo is necessary.

One unofficial requirement of being a member of our group is that you have to have a thick enough skin to endure the fact that some people will think you are nuts, no matter how hard we work at public relations.  For every ten people I speak to who agree with our stances, one has the hide to join up.  

[Declaration Day]

Oh, another thing that I think might help with public perception:  Voluntarily "registering" guns with local police.

Not all of them, and it shouldn't be mandatory for joining the group, but submit a list of guns that your guys have that match up with what the local and state PD is trained on.  Let 'em know they can borrow them if need be in an emergency.  And open up the ammo stocks to 'em too.  Be pretty cool to wave a paper around in one hand explaining with the data on it.  Would help re-enforce the "we're not anti-government" angle a bit.

Might not be the best idea in the world.  Just an idea.

Interesting.  I'll bring it up at next Monday's Team Leader Meeting.

We already have an FBI contact who will occasionally call us and say "Hey, we're looking for (insert name here) who is wanted for (insert crime here) and we think he might try to come your way.  Can you let us know if he does?" 

We also call her if we have any concerns about somebody plotting to harm innocent Americans.  In fact, the Hutaree were put on the FBI radar because of our tip.

Perhaps I could also open up my private outdoor shooting range for local LEOs?

[Jocassee]

As I am fresh off a media adventure let me concur that selling yourself is important. I like to think that the somewhat positive reactions we got last weekend from TIME and NPR were because I got to talk to those reporters before anyone else. With the NPR guy I started in on how much I liked NPR and the digging they do to get a story. With the girl from TIME, same story, I was just as nice and friendly as could be and, if I may say so, exuded a little Southern Charm.

So yes. In a TV interview--presentation is everything.

[Declaration Day]

No kidding.  You guys are doing a world of good for all of us.  Thank you.

To you and anyone else who made a similar statement, it means a lot.

We are not perfect.  We may stumble at times.  But we ARE on your side, and will do everything we can to promote the cause of freedom and the right to bear arms.  Your suggestions are always welcome.

[Perd Hapley]

Appearances aside, Helmke won the argument. 

He got Mike to agree that Obama was doing wonderful things for gun rights.

He characterized gun owners as "dangerous people," and Mike made no response.

He claimed that a peaceful demonstration was an attempt to intimidate, and Mike made no response, not even the second time around.


I'm sure Mike's a great guy, but I'm afraid he did a poor job.    Not saying I would have done any better, just my assessment. 

[Declaration Day]

Appearances aside, Helmke won the argument.  

He got Mike to agree that Obama was doing wonderful things for gun rights.

He characterized gun owners as "dangerous people," and Mike made no response.

He claimed that a peaceful demonstration was an attempt to intimidate, and Mike made no response, not even the second time around.


I'm sure Mike's a great guy, but I'm afraid he did a poor job.    Not saying I would have done any better, just my assessment.  

Probably has a lot to do with Helmke's experience with the media.  It's part of his job.  Mike is a pharmaceutical delivery contractor, a husband, and a father.  He's not accustomed to this sort of thing, nor are we as a group.  We were happy to fly under the media's radar before, and will be again when all this hype calms down.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

 For every ten people I speak to who agree with our stances, one has the hide to join up.  

That's true of politics generally.  Lost of people have strong beliefs, few are willing to get involved and work towards implementing their beliefs.

I'd never thought of the Michigan militias as a political force before, but that's exactly what y'all are.  And your ability to get yourselves out there in the public eye and take a stab at persuading people is impressive.  Very few people are in a position to do what you guys are doing.

[Perd Hapley]

Probably has a lot to do with Helmke's experience with the media.  It's part of his job.  Mike is a pharmaceutical delivery contractor, a husband, and a father.  He's not accustomed to this sort of thing, nor are we as a group.  We were happy to fly under the media's radar before, and will be again when all this hype calms down.

I figured.  I'm generally very impressed with you guys, and in Mike's case, he did better than most would have done, given his lack of experience.  

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Appearances aside, Helmke won the argument. 

He got Mike to agree that Obama was doing wonderful things for gun rights.

He characterized gun owners as "dangerous people," and Mike made no response.

He claimed that a peaceful demonstration was an attempt to intimidate, and Mike made no response, not even the second time around.


I'm sure Mike's a great guy, but I'm afraid he did a poor job.    Not saying I would have done any better, just my assessment. 

Maybe, maybe not.  

There's a trade off to be made here.  On the one hand, you want to refute the points the other guy is making.  On the other, you don't want to come off as argumentative and hostile, especially when the opposing argument is that you're a bunch of armed crazies trying to intimidate people.

Mike's calm demeanor and civility may have been the best possible refutation of Helmke's claim's of hostility and intimidation.  The question is, how many people noticed it?

[Perd Hapley]

At the least, he should have calmly stated that peacefully exercising first and second amendment rights is a form of political speech, which he hopes Mr. Helmke would not wish to deny.  Or something like that.  Especially since Helmke made the claim twice, it should have been refuted, even if it meant ignoring the interviewer's question.

I realize it takes a lot of preparation to carry off an interview like that, and Mike probably did his best.  I'm just saying I don't think it worked well for the good guys. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

its a game  you want to anticipate his points and if at all possible shoot em down before he even floats em.  if he gets another interview lead off with how peaceful all the events were. even draw a parallel to the blood in the streets whining before the concealed carry laws get passed

[Nitrogen]

I would gladly be our media liaison.  I'm fit, clean shaven, and have a nice suit. I am also well-spoken.......until you stick a camera in my face.  Then I'm like a deer in the headlights.  

Get a media consultant.  They specialize in training that out of you.

[Balog]

Perhaps I could also open up my private outdoor shooting range for local LEOs?

Great great great idea. I'd never register anything and would tell a group that wanted me to do so that they can pound sand, but helping train cops is both great PR and a wonderful networking opportunity.

Thanks to your group for being willing to go on record as a group a lot of people look down on. I really appreciate it.

And you definitely want a professional media consultant to train your spokespeople. And if they're attractive women or minorities that would probably help the "violent racist hicks with guns" image. I bet those LEO's you are hanging out with when you open the range up have someone to talk to the press after shootings etc... 

[RocketMan]

One of our administrators would be good at this.  He is President of the Board of Directors for a local marketing / sales training firm.  He designs all of our pamphlets, flyers, newsletters etc., is highly educated and very well-spoken.  I always see him dressed professionally.

Unfortunately he is overweight, which I believe will have the same effect on public perception as not wearing a suit and tie.  Perhaps someone else in his company can give us a hand...

He's not the one to put in front of the camera then, he the one that prepares and backstops the guy who is.

[AJ Dual]

A well-tailored suit, dress shirt, tie, and good shave & haircut are media camo.

[Declaration Day]

We're discussing this on our private forum.  Here's an opinion from our Deputy Unit Coordinator:

"There are two levels of shallowness at work.

The first is obvious -the suit and tie is a traditional, serious look.  It probably gives the viewer the impression that you're traditional and serious.

The second is hidden behind that layer, just a little deeper.  It's the relationship between the displayed image and the role of the person displaying it.

Paul Helmke and professionals like him have this down to a science.  He was wearing a dark blue suit, dark blue tie, and a blue shirt.  This gives him the visual image of being serious and businesslike, with no nonsense.  If he wore a white shirt, he'd come off as too lawyer-like.  If it was any other color shirt or tie, it might be unconsciously interpreted as being too "flashy" and not traditional enough.  His physical appearance added value to his message, and perfectly matched the image of the Brady bunch - a professional lobbyist group advocating rights restrictions through legislation.

If you put Mike in the same suit, though, he'd look like a fool on TV.  The image wouldn't match the role.  A militia member is not a lawyer, or lobbyist, or legislator.  If he tried to represent the SMVM wearing that, his message would not be taken seriously at all.  The image has to match.  This judgment is made by nearly every viewer, completely subconsciously.

Fortunately, I think we have a much broader spectrum for what fits the image correctly than Helmke does.  The fleece jacket and T-Shirt is on the casual end of the spectrum.  On the other end, I'd go with a colored shirt with an awkwardly-tied or loose tie, or a jacket and button-down shirt with no tie.  Shaved or not is unimportant, as long as it looks intentional.

It's true, image is everything.  Well, it's an important part of effectively conveying a message on television, anyway."