Right to Keep and Bear Arms Rally in Harrisburg

[RevDisk]

Went to the 2A rally in Harrisburg.  Tag line of this year was "2nd Amendment - My Right and Yours".

The cards the Repubs were handing out for Lt  Governor were hysterical.  All of them trying to prove they were the most hardcore pro-gun folks.  When you have politicians arguing over which of them is the MOST pro-gun and will most defend Article 1, Section 21, ur doin it right.

Speaking of which, you might inquire, what issues required such heavy hitters as Suzanna Gratia Hupp, Wayne LaPierre (NRA), Larry Pratt (GOA), Peggy Tartaro (Exec Editor of Women and Guns), Marinelle Thompson (co-founder, Second Amendment Sisters)?  Plus roughly a quarter of the House of Representatives (R and D).  Well, Castle Doctrine.  And uhm, clarifying the transportation clause of our single gun law.  Oh, and strengthening our preemption clause so we can have the PA State Troopers do a dynamic entry on Philly's Mayor when if he tries to pass any gun control laws.   

Not a bill, but another issue came up, an epidemic of police breaking the law and being all oppressive.  They're overcharging LTCF's by an average of $10.  One "sheriff gone wild" is even charging $20 above the price set and mandated by law.  $45 for a LTCF for five years, if you could imagine!  We really held Tom Corbett's feet to the fire on this hideous violation of civil liberties (he's like to be the next Governor)!

...

Yes, I know.  True dangerous and radical extremists, we are.  What do you want from us?  We don't HAVE oppressive gun laws.  Minus Vermont carry and codifying Castle Doctrine.   



Really productive day.  Got two Representatives to agree to to vote for the Castle Doctrine bill.  Bonus, they weren't even the Representatives for my district.  Booyah!   I didn't get firm quote on the verbage bill to reword the transportation clause of UFA.  They both thought I was kidding, mental or something.  "So...  You're demanding a bill that doesn't CHANGE anything, just rephrases three lines to be more clear..?" 

The rest of the Representatives on my list were already cosigners of all three bills.  Hard to be all "fighting the injustice of the system" when "the system" doing exactly what you want.  Damn it! 

The PA capital is a beautiful building (the layout is kinda weird).  I was playing "Representative scavenger hunt" all over the building.  Of the group I was "assigned", believe it or not, I ended up being the smooth lobbyist.  The rest of the group were pretty nervous and were apparently happy to let me do plenty of talking.  Trick is to be friendly, good humored and use simple logic.  In a pitch, accurate but oversimplified info and emotional appeals do a good job too.  Always, always, always be friendly to the secretaries and aides.  They are a gold mine. 

Only downside is I didn't get a chance to talk to Representative Angel Cruz (Philly).  He's the sole "true believer hardcore anti gun" Representative of Pennsylvania.  Others may others may vote for anti-gun laws, but they're mainly just being politicians.  This guy believes it down to his toes.  Apparently he is a nice guy and fully willing to listen/speak on the subject.  All of us really wanted a change to see the Lone Anti-Gun Politician out of motivation to see and attempt to understand our opposition, but he was out of the office.  Sigh. 

The upside is I have an autographed copy of Suzanna Gratia Hupp's book, "From Luby's to the Legislature".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhyuJzjOcQE


Plenty of photos, will edit and post.

[Balog]

Oh, and strengthening our preemption clause so we can have the PA State Troopers do a dynamic entry on Philly's Mayor when if he tries to pass any gun control laws.   

I would have to seriously consider moving to PA if this happened.

[RevDisk]

I would have to seriously consider moving to PA if this happened.

Might come to that, dude.  Philly is a completely different ball of wax than Pennsylvania.  Odd that so much of our country was determined there.  They really do think that they have a right to do as they damn well please.  It varies from passing blatantly illegal laws to illegal withholding.  Philadelphia Police Academy often directly teaches incorrect information on Pennsylvania firearm law.



I was talking to a friend (not you, Viking) who thought it was odd that people open carried at the rally.  I was kinda puzzled and asked him what he meant.  He mentioned the cops might hassle them for having a gun on government property.   ...  Yea.  Because ANY sane individual would try to violate someone's firearm related civil liberties in front the heads of the NRA, GOA, 2A Sisters, state 2A groups, a quarter of the House of Representatives, a couple random Senators, the attorney general (and likely next guv), two media networks, a couple hundred personal cameras and a couple hundred armed folks waving Gadsden flags.  Gods, that'd be epic. 

 

[CNYCacher]

I've been thinking about moving to PA for quite some time now.  Got very deep roots here though

[kgbsquirrel]

Gods, that'd be epic. 

And methinks likely very ugly if neither side backed down.

[AZRedhawk44]

Because ANY sane individual would try to violate someone's firearm related civil liberties in front the heads of the NRA, GOA, 2A Sisters, state 2A groups, a quarter of the House of Representatives, a couple random Senators, the attorney general (and likely next guv), two media networks, a couple hundred personal cameras and a couple hundred armed folks waving Gadsden flags.  Gods, that'd be epic. 

Any of those reps/senators/AG or lobby kingpins open-carrying anything?  Or were they just there to glad-hand without actually having a picture of them carrying a dirty, filthy gunz-thing?

[Regolith]

And methinks likely very ugly if neither side backed down.

I don't think he meant that they'd resist violently.  It'd just make the lawsuit against the PD very, very lucrative.

[kgbsquirrel]

I don't think he meant that they'd resist violently.  It'd just make the lawsuit against the PD very, very lucrative.

Yup. I just tend to immediately think out the worst case scenarios. Grand slam probably wouldn't adequately describe such a law suit.

[RevDisk]

Any of those reps/senators/AG or lobby kingpins open-carrying anything?  Or were they just there to glad-hand without actually having a picture of them carrying a dirty, filthy gunz-thing?

Not that I noticed.

And I wasn't open carrying either.   Are you seriously suggesting that all of the above, including the heads of the majority of national RKBA organizations, look down upon RKBA?

[Bogie]

Uh... Hi, I'm a newbie...
 
Where can I go to find PA gun laws (and Pittsburgh area, if they are any different...) explained using short words?
 
Heck, I'm still trying to figure out the damn beer system...
 

[RaspberrySurprise]

Any of those reps/senators/AG or lobby kingpins open-carrying anything?  Or were they just there to glad-hand without actually having a picture of them carrying a dirty, filthy gunz-thing?

I know Larry Pratt was open carrying when he was up here for the Tea Party thing last year.

[Harold Tuttle]

the damn beer system...

If you like that, try the damn liquor control board

When i was a lad PA had blue laws and nothing was open on Sunday.

[RevDisk]

Uh... Hi, I'm a newbie...
 
Where can I go to find PA gun laws (and Pittsburgh area, if they are any different...) explained using short words?
 
Heck, I'm still trying to figure out the damn beer system...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Firearms_Act

http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm

That is the entire PA law on firearms.  It forbids any others.  Short version long.  P2P gun sales are legal on rifles and shotguns.  Pistols must go through FFL.  All guns are legal that comply with fed rules.  Open carry is legal, but expect hassle from cops in cities.  No waiting periods, no firearm registration or licenses, no limits, etc.  LTCF are $25 (by law), good for 5 years and have no additional requirements.  Uhm...  That's about it.

The only city with "special rules" is Philly.  The special rule is to open carry, you need a LTCF.  Open carrying in Philly is not recommended under any circumstances.  Bring a copy of the UFA with you if you go to Philly.  Philly cops are generally not competent on firearm law.  Philly cops often believe that LTCF is not valid in Philly.  This is wrong.  Philly's sole "gimme" is open carry requires a LTCF.

The only other wrinkle is that some towns have illegally passed "lost and stolen" laws.  Basically, if you fail to report your weapon stolen within 48 hours, you become a felon and are forbidden from ever owning a gun again.  It would be significantly cheaper and better for your life if you come back from a week long vacation, find your guns missing and to move rather than report it.  AFAIK, there are no specific safeguards for extenuating circumstances like vacation or other travel.  It is blatantly illegal, and we are working at fixing it.  

Under Article 1, Section 21, "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."  Angle they're trying to claim is that failure to report stolen property has no bearing on the right to bear arms in defense.  

the damn beer system...

If you like that, try the damn liquor control board

When i was a lad PA had blue laws and nothing was open on Sunday.

Ok.  Pennsylvania alcohol purchasing.  Bars and resturants that allow you to buy and carry out beer are limited to X number of six packs.  This is strongly enforced.  However, if you return (immediately) after putting X six packs in your car, you can buy another X number of six packs.  There is no time limit in the law.  Why this even exists, I have no idea.   Beer distributors are everywhere, and can sell beer in any amount.  But no liquor.

Liquor can only be purchased a state store.  How this is constitutional, I have no idea.  But anyways.  They are now open on Sundays because enough of us heathens screamed our heads off.

Wine can be purchased at a private wine store (most often run by the vineyard) or the state store.

Obviously, you can buy beer, wine or liquor at any bar or alcohol serving restaurant. 


There's been some half-hearted attempts at abolishing the current system.  I'd like to replace the current system with "Go nuts.  Just gimme my cut."  (PA has a 6% sales tax.)  After reading the PA Constitution, I have seen no section authorizing the state to control alcohol.  We struck down the Blue Laws as being religious discrimination.  Which they bloody well are.

[AZRedhawk44]

Not that I noticed.

And I wasn't open carrying either.   Are you seriously suggesting that all of the above, including the heads of the majority of national RKBA organizations, look down upon RKBA?

Kinda... more that this is politically expedient hay to make.  Attending a rally is one thing... having a picture of you taken with a gun on your hip is a different level of commitment.

[Balog]

Kinda... more that this is politically expedient hay to make.  Attending a rally is one thing... having a picture of you taken with a gun on your hip is a different level of commitment.

More committed than, say, being the head of the NRA? 

[CNYCacher]

Ok.  Pennsylvania alcohol purchasing.  Bars and resturants that allow you to buy and carry out beer are limited to X number of six packs.  This is strongly enforced.  However, if you return (immediately) after putting X six packs in your car, you can buy another X number of six packs.  There is no time limit in the law.  Why this even exists, I have no idea.   Beer distributors are everywhere, and can sell beer in any amount.  But no liquor.

Interesting.  People actually buy beer to take home from restaurants and bars?

Just as a comparison to NYS: beer is sold at every convenience store and supermarket with no limits.  You can get kegs at certain beer distributors.  It is against the law for a bar or restaurant to sell you an unopened container of beer.  Case in point:  We were at an outdoor clam bake thrown by a restaurant.  They were selling beer by the bucket.  A tin bucket with 5 bottles of beer planted in ice.  They would not hand you the bucket until they had removed all 5 caps.

Wine and liquor is only allowed to be sold in liquor stores, which aren't allowed  to sell anything else except a few LIMITED related supplies.  For example: corkscrews are OK, as are wine glasses and flasks, stoppers, etc.  Sparkling grape juice (non-alcoholic) is NOT okay, as well as food of any kind.

Wineries are allowed to serve wine for tasting, sell wine and sell other food.  They can also operate like a restaurant for special events.

The newest thing in NYS alcohol-related law is the wineries are pushing hard to allow wine to be sold in grocery stores (remember, they sell beer already).  The liquor stores are pushing back hard against it because currently they enjoy a monopoly on wine sales, wineries excluded.