Camaro concept car

[Iain]

Stepping away from the accusations of racism for a moment...

It's not too bad looking, but as someone else alluded to - 6.0l engine? I appreciate these cars are not aimed at the European market, but...

We had a bit of a heyday of the old fashioned muscle car just last year when Vauxhall began importing the car that they made for the Australian market, the Monaro. That was about 3.5l, rear wheel drive and apparently needed windscreen wipers on the door windows.

To back Daniel up, there is nothing of the 'ricer' about the S2000. It's a two seater sports car that happens to be Japanese. It also has topped customer satisfaction surveys over here for several years, surveys that include reliability and fun.

Apparently the newest thing in European motoring is smaller engines than ever. The VW Golf 2.0 GTi is to have a new stablemate - the 1.4 GTi Turbo. Better fuel economy and extremely similar performance I read.

[Silver Bullet]

To back Daniel up, there is nothing of the 'ricer' about the S2000. It's a two seater sports car that happens to be Japanese. It also has topped customer satisfaction surveys over here for several years, surveys that include reliability and fun.

I like the S2000.  I remember a review the first year it came out where the reviewer described it as the "double-espresso of sports cars" because you had to dial it up to nine-tenths before its racy attributes really shined.    If I were spending $40K on  a roadster, it or a Boxster would probably be my choice.

[280plus]

Yes, please, more "race-ism" less "racism".

The term riceburner originated in the world of motorcycles When the first Hondas were "making the scene" back in the 60's. I've never considered it as being racist. Of course, the PC alarm wasn't set quite as sensitive back then either.

My determination is I think we should all go down and test drive one of these 425 HP camaros and decide for ourselves.

We could start a new club, the "APS Test Drive Club" and test these new cars as they come out and argue about them here.

oh, and you want to talk about fancy cars. This lawyer buddy of mine bought a gray market '85 Mercedes with an 8 cylinder in it. They weren't importing 8 cylinders at the time. He paid $50 Gs to get it and get it here. He had M50s all the way around.  You could take a 90* turn at 50 mph and the tires wouldn't even squeak. We're headed down Rt 2 doing 160 and he says, "You want to go faster? I said, "Uh,,, no thanks." LOL...

[Silver Bullet]

you had to dial it up to nine-tenths before its racy attributes really shined.

Oops; unintentional pun on my part.  

My determination is I think we should all go down and test drive one of these 425 HP camaros and decide for ourselves.

And the Challenger.  I think I read those will have a hemi option   , but I'm not sure.

[mtnbkr]

To back Daniel up, there is nothing of the 'ricer' about the S2000.

I personally never considered the S2000 a "ricer".  I reserve that term for the Japanese econoboxes dressed up like race cars.  I don't care how much crap you bolt onto your Civic, it's still a Civic.

Chris

[richyoung]

- No offense, but I started laughing when you spelled "Camaro" wrong and "Chimera" right.

No offense taken.  I am a horrible speller, & I need new bifocals.  Getting old is hell...

2- Just because there isn't a name for this guy* I saw the other day, it doesn't mean he isn't an idiot either.
*A guy driving a late model Monte Carlo SS with NASCAR numbers on it, flat black rims, and Goodyears with the yellow lettering.

Probably a NASCAR fan.  WOuld it suprise you to learn that a doctor studied a variety of athletes and found that the fittest ones were...NASCAR drivers?  There's a lot more to it than you give it credit for.  Let me further ask, did the "flat black rims" or "yellow letters' compromise handling and braking like the the ultra-wide low-profile rubber bolted onto a FWD that's been "lowered" by cutting the springs until the tires are visibly tilted?

3- Sounds like you must have had a pretty good time in Germany. Was your 911 N/A or turbo?

Naturally aspirated - and the doors were falling off!  I like my friend's mom's mid-seventies Corvette better....

Which generation was it?

This was '78, and it was used, so it has to have been from the early or mid 70's.

The only Porsches I've driven were the Boxster S and the 996 Turbo. Did you make it to any tracks while you were there?

Nice rides.  Naw, when I was there, Jimmy Carter was prez, and the mark was like 1.19 to the dollar, so funds were TIGHT! The only "track" I got to was the Stuttgart to Franfurt autobahn....

4- Damn, I have more cash/assets now than I ever have. I sold the M3 to get into motorcycling. The plans are to have a Civic coupe for A-B, a bike of some sort, and an S2K. I don't currently belong to SCCA or have any track experience so I'm going to use the Civic to start autox. Then after I get the MBA, I'll be moving to a bigger city and picking up the S2K.

OK -your rich - good. Just polin' a little fuun at you....

5- Are you referring to the Camaro when you say "handles and brakes with world-class exotica"?

Skidpad numbers, slalom times, braking distances - you know, objective data...at the time it was introduced, (1993) the fourth gen f-body was very, very good.  Not to mention running 13s with a slush box, getting 26+ mpg on the highway, and topping out at 156mph - all right off of the showroom floor, with no mods.   Add headers, a cat-back, MDS system, power pulleys and a chip....

If so, I've very, very confused.

The ONLY car that I've personally experienced that came close to my LT1 'bird was a rare BMW of some type (m5?   I can't remember....) that a friend's rich brother had (before he lost his job).  Handled almost as good, and braked even better.  When he crammed on the binders, it actually hurt where the seatbelt was.  Pretty peepy too, as I recall.  Fast ride for a 4 door sedan.  Just a little slower through a quarter-mile and top end - but I didn't pay near as much either.

 

And I don't engage in magazine races since they're completely pointless.

Enjoy your autocross.  Obviously, you know what you are doing, and aren't the type of "tooner" I'm refereing to

[280plus]

I take back the APS test drive thing. It would only lead to us all being mercilessly hounded by car sales people. Mercilessly I tell you!

[CatsDieNow]

Wow.  I stayed out of this one for a while.

All I am going to say is that I love my current Camaro (1996 Red Convertable RS) and I hope I can stretch it another 2-3 years so that I can buy a new one.  It is a very well balanced car (which can carry 4 people in a pinch) that still has some zip.  Will probably get a real Camaro intstead of a 6cyl atuomatic this time.  Oh, and I want white racing stripes, too.

I like them mainly because I drive one.  We all get attached to the things we are accustomed to.

[...has left the building.]

No offense taken.  I am a horrible speller, & I need new bifocals.  Getting old is hell...

Probably a NASCAR fan.  WOuld it suprise you to learn that a doctor studied a variety of athletes and found that the fittest ones were...NASCAR drivers?  There's a lot more to it than you give it credit for.  Let me further ask, did the "flat black rims" or "yellow letters' compromise handling and braking like the the ultra-wide low-profile rubber bolted onto a FWD that's been "lowered" by cutting the springs until the tires are visibly tilted?

Naturally aspirated - and the doors were falling off!  I like my friend's mom's mid-seventies Corvette better....

This was '78, and it was used, so it has to have been from the early or mid 70's.

Nice rides.  Naw, when I was there, Jimmy Carter was prez, and the mark was like 1.19 to the dollar, so funds were TIGHT! The only "track" I got to was the Stuttgart to Franfurt autobahn....

OK -your rich - good. Just polin' a little fuun at you....

Skidpad numbers, slalom times, braking distances - you know, objective data...at the time it was introduced, (1993) the fourth gen f-body was very, very good.  Not to mention running 13s with a slush box, getting 26+ mpg on the highway, and topping out at 156mph - all right off of the showroom floor, with no mods.   Add headers, a cat-back, MDS system, power pulleys and a chip....

The ONLY car that I've personally experienced that came close to my LT1 'bird was a rare BMW of some type (m5?   I can't remember....) that a friend's rich brother had (before he lost his job).  Handled almost as good, and braked even better.  When he crammed on the binders, it actually hurt where the seatbelt was.  Pretty peepy too, as I recall.  Fast ride for a 4 door sedan.  Just a little slower through a quarter-mile and top end - but I didn't pay near as much either.

Enjoy your autocross.  Obviously, you know what you are doing, and aren't the type of "tooner" I'm refereing to

Rich- You seem like the kind of guy I could have a beer with and rib each other about cars all day long!

I agree that NASCAR does take extreme amounts of physical skill. I just think there are so many better race series out there to follow such as WRC. And yeah, I love when people drop their cars and ask "Do I need a camber kit?" No you don't need a camber kit, the extreme tilt is "mad tyte yo!" Messed up camber will never ever add as much handling as a "8" sticker though.

I'm surprised your Porsche was in that kind of shape; I've always seen them get very high quality numbers. And I'm jealous of your autobahn experience, that must have been awesome!

Regarding the objective specs, I agree with those to some extent but I think the proof is in the pudding. That's why I like how the BBC's Top Gear tests cars. They have the same driver test them on the same track and have come up with some very interesting numbers, such as when they got the same time from an RX-8 as an M3. It is probably a fault of mine but when I think of import vs. domestic back in the day I think of the Berlinetta vs. the AE-86.

The BMW you're referring to was probably an M5. Unless it was a '97 or 98 M3 sedan (which I used to own).

The import scene is gradually improving. Of course you'll always have those "tooners" out there but for most people it is just auto-evolution. I look at my Civic as a good car to learn how to maintain and modify myself (brake pads, doing some mods like camber kits/springs, swapping to a K20A engine, etc.). When I had my M3 I didn't really know the car, I just drove it like hell. This time around, I want to be fully versed in technical proficiency before I consider myself worthy of a nicer car, such as an S2K.

[...has left the building.]

LadySmith- I don't think things are as serious as you think, Rich and I are just ribbing each other. At least that's how I look at it.

[...has left the building.]

RE the S2K: I think it is one of the better balanced cars out there right now that hopefully will serve me well cruising down the 101. I haven't seen very many of them that owners have tastelessly modified. There was an 800 hp one on the cover of a magazine about a year ago... Amazing what people do with them.

[Iain]

Regarding the objective specs, I agree with those to some extent but I think the proof is in the pudding. That's why I like how the BBC's Top Gear tests cars. They have the same driver test them on the same track and have come up with some very interesting numbers, such as when they got the same time from an RX-8 as an M3.

The great Stig hasn't always been the same person. But yes, those tests are quite illuminating. Did you ever see the episode where the Williams team took their F1 car around that track? That was really quite scary. It was Top Gear's customer satisfaction survey that I referred to in my previous post.

mtnbkr - A Civic may be a Civic, but a Civic Type R is a boy racers wet dream.

[...has left the building.]

Regarding the objective specs, I agree with those to some extent but I think the proof is in the pudding. That's why I like how the BBC's Top Gear tests cars. They have the same driver test them on the same track and have come up with some very interesting numbers, such as when they got the same time from an RX-8 as an M3.

The great Stig hasn't always been the same person. But yes, those tests are quite illuminating. Did you ever see the episode where the Williams team took their F1 car around that track? That was really quite scary. It was Top Gear's customer satisfaction survey that I referred to in my previous post.

mtnbkr - A Civic may be a Civic, but a Civic Type R is a boy racers wet dream.

I didn't realize that they have used different drivers over the years. I have not seen the one with Williams in it, I'll have to find it. There was an excellent episode where the compare the S2K, Z4, and Boxster. It is hilarious hearing all of them ripping on each other's rides.

[mtnbkr]

mtnbkr - A Civic may be a Civic, but a Civic Type R is a boy racers wet dream.

True, but that's not what I'm talking about.  A 20yo Civic with Type R stickers isn't a Civic Type R.

But...each sticker adds .025 horsepower, dontcha know.

Chris

[Iain]

The show is pretty funny. Especially since they just recently won an international award for best unscripted television show, and yet it clearly is scripted. For those who have no idea of what we speak, and wish to download about 50mb (quite legally) then take a trip to www.arielmotor.co.uk and then to the 'Press' section and scroll down to where it says "BBC Top Gear (Atom 2 220 & 300 Supercharged)". Cool car too.

I think there have only been two so far. Heard suggestions that some very expensive cars are driven by their owners dressed as Stig, and when Williams took their car around it wasn't Stig either. There are rumours surrounding both Damon Hill and Colin McRae.

Have a look for that episode. The Williams car went round the track in under one minute.

[crt360]

doodz, i need sum stikrs 4 my AE86.

Yeah, I really have one - but I have not chopped the springs, glued a wing on it, painted half of it flat black or done anything else to make it cool.  It is fun to drive and if I had spare money and time to make it fast, I might.  Then I could paint it like a ramen noodle package and put some cool stickers on it.

As far as civics go, there are some cheesy "works in progress" out there, but I have encountered a few on the street that have amazing acceleration and handling.

[Dannyboy]

I'd love to get an old BMW 2002 to play around with.  Much cooler than anything around today.  Tuner wise, anyway.

[...has left the building.]

doodz, i need sum stikrs 4 my AE86.

If you ever get bored with it, let me know.

[richyoung]

Rich- You seem like the kind of guy I could have a beer with and rib each other about cars all day long!

If you are ever around Lawton Oklahoma, give me a shout - I'm in the book....

I agree that NASCAR does take extreme amounts of physical skill. I just think there are so many better race series out there to follow such as WRC.

I actually liked NASCAR better whne there was SOME connection between what Detroit built and what they had to run - it gave us wonderful things like the Hemi, the winged Superbird/Daytonas, the big-block Chevy, etc.  Unfortunately, theascendency of FWD killed it all - the RWDS Monte Carlo SS was about its last hurrah. When they allowed Ford to run a "2 door Taurus" that DIDN'T EXIST, I lost all respect for the organization.  At one time, every part ontte car had to have a factory part number, and have been installed on 500 cars before it was eligible for racing....

And yeah, I love when people drop their cars and ask "Do I need a camber kit?" No you don't need a camber kit, the extreme tilt is "mad tyte yo!" Messed up camber will never ever add as much handling as a "8" sticker though.

Hey, I hear a "Type R" emblem ALONE is goood for 50 hp and another 30 mph top end...

I'm surprised your Porsche was in that kind of shape; I've always seen them get very high quality numbers. And I'm jealous of your autobahn experience, that must have been awesome!

What can I say - it was Germany, and the car was trading material.  Living there was a trip - you see Mercedes Benz taxi cabs all the time.  I didn't have the 911 but about a week - if I remember, it was "importable", and Dad sold it to some sports car guy that was heading back to the Big PX.  The most fun cars I had were a MB 280 fuel injection with a manual and a sun roof - that car could flat haul.  But the real champ was the '64 coup. The hub caps were chrome.  Not chrome plated tin - SOLID CHROME.  They weighed a ton!  Had a HUGE straight-6 twin overhead cam engine that looked like it belonged in a locomotive or hanging on the nose of an ME-109.  Big long hood - the whole car was almost as big as an American Cadillac or Buick of the same period.  Not much grunt from a dead stop, but you get it out on the 'bahn and get that cammer wound up, & the only thing I ever saw pass it was a whale-tail Porsche.  I didn't even play the radio - I just listened to that engine moan as I floated throught the German country side at high speed - that was all the music I needed.  It was cream white with a black leather interior - if I recall correctly, it still has the headlight dimmer swith on the floor.  Big LONG hood, almost as long as a Monte Carlo - filled with engine.  Big trunk.  Big doors.  (DOn't remember if it had AC?)  Whish I could find a picture of it for you - it was much bigger than the "regular" Mercedese of the same year, & kind of rare....just a super car.  Belonged to a German doctor who had died...

Regarding the objective specs, I agree with those to some extent but I think the proof is in the pudding. That's why I like how the BBC's Top Gear tests cars. They have the same driver test them on the same track and have come up with some very interesting numbers, such as when they got the same time from an RX-8 as an M3. It is probably a fault of mine but when I think of import vs. domestic back in the day I think of the Berlinetta vs. the AE-86.

Snear at the domestics al you want - I had an '86 Trans Am back in the day that could hit 140 quicker than a cat could lick its...paw, and got good milage to boot out of a fuelie 305 - and it had over 100k on it when I got it.

The BMW you're referring to was probably an M5. Unless it was a '97 or 98 M3 sedan (which I used to own).

I'm almost positive it was an M5 - beautiful car.  The only 4-door to ever give me automotive envy.

The import scene is gradually improving. Of course you'll always have those "tooners" out there but for most people it is just auto-evolution. I look at my Civic as a good car to learn how to maintain and modify myself (brake pads, doing some mods like camber kits/springs, swapping to a K20A engine, etc.). When I had my M3 I didn't really know the car, I just drove it like hell. This time around, I want to be fully versed in technical proficiency before I consider myself worthy of a nicer car, such as an S2K.

If I over-reacted - I apologize.  As an old car guy, you have to try to imagine how aggrevating "Fast & Furious" was to watch - FWDs with wings, people calling nitrous oxide "nos" - (no real car guy EVER does that - its refered to as "on the bottle" or "on gas" or "on nitrous" - NOS is the initials of a company that sells nitrous gear.) the glue on "supercharger" on the Dodge.  Then my son-in-law puts a fart can, PLASTIC "cold air" system, & Euro taillights on his Dodge......

[...has left the building.]

If you are ever around Lawton Oklahoma, give me a shout - I'm in the book....

Yeah same for you Rich, if you ever are around Indianapolis or Lafayette, Indiana, drop me an e-mail. I'll buy you a good JAPANESE beer like Sapporo

I actually liked NASCAR better whne there was SOME connection between what Detroit built and what they had to run - it gave us wonderful things like the Hemi, the winged Superbird/Daytonas, the big-block Chevy, etc.  Unfortunately, theascendency of FWD killed it all - the RWDS Monte Carlo SS was about its last hurrah. When they allowed Ford to run a "2 door Taurus" that DIDN'T EXIST, I lost all respect for the organization.  At one time, every part ontte car had to have a factory part number, and have been installed on 500 cars before it was eligible for racing....

I agree that it is a shame that they don't use anything that resembles factory. I'm sure you're like me and laugh when people call it "stock" car racing!

Hey, I hear a "Type R" emblem ALONE is goood for 50 hp and another 30 mph top end...

Easily, and it will help you get chicks too.

What can I say - it was Germany, and the car was trading material.  Living there was a trip - you see Mercedes Benz taxi cabs all the time.  I didn't have the 911 but about a week - if I remember, it was "importable", and Dad sold it to some sports car guy that was heading back to the Big PX.  The most fun cars I had were a MB 280 fuel injection with a manual and a sun roof - that car could flat haul.  But the real champ was the '64 coup. The hub caps were chrome.  Not chrome plated tin - SOLID CHROME.  They weighed a ton!  Had a HUGE straight-6 twin overhead cam engine that looked like it belonged in a locomotive or hanging on the nose of an ME-109.  Big long hood - the whole car was almost as big as an American Cadillac or Buick of the same period.  Not much grunt from a dead stop, but you get it out on the 'bahn and get that cammer wound up, & the only thing I ever saw pass it was a whale-tail Porsche.  I didn't even play the radio - I just listened to that engine moan as I floated throught the German country side at high speed - that was all the music I needed.  It was cream white with a black leather interior - if I recall correctly, it still has the headlight dimmer swith on the floor.  Big LONG hood, almost as long as a Monte Carlo - filled with engine.  Big trunk.  Big doors.  (DOn't remember if it had AC?)  Whish I could find a picture of it for you - it was much bigger than the "regular" Mercedese of the same year, & kind of rare....just a super car.  Belonged to a German doctor who had died...

Those solid chrome rims were probably what helped it stay so stable at autobahn speeds. I used to drive the M-B taxi: the C280. I think Mercedes still has some soul (my wife owns one), but their quality is downright pathetic compared to the Mercedes you describe. You used to get a car that was built like a tank, was reliable, and could fly at all speeds. Now you get something that has status, has a ton of creature comforts, is ultra-safe, and can fly at all speeds. I'd much rather have the former.

Snear at the domestics al you want - I had an '86 Trans Am back in the day that could hit 140 quicker than a cat could lick its...paw, and got good milage to boot out of a fuelie 305 - and it had over 100k on it when I got it.

I love domestics. I'm just not a big fan of the Camaro, SRT-4, and a few others that I love to hate on. Clarkson from Top Gear said it best one time when he said that Americans tend to think of their cars as point and shoot.

I'm almost positive it was an M5 - beautiful car.  The only 4-door to ever give me automotive envy.

M5s are indeed amazing!

If I over-reacted - I apologize.  As an old car guy, you have to try to imagine how aggrevating "Fast & Furious" was to watch - FWDs with wings, people calling nitrous oxide "nos" - (no real car guy EVER does that - its refered to as "on the bottle" or "on gas" or "on nitrous" - NOS is the initials of a company that sells nitrous gear.) the glue on "supercharger" on the Dodge.  Then my son-in-law puts a fart can, PLASTIC "cold air" system, & Euro taillights on his Dodge......

No apology needed, I was taking it all lightly from the start. After all, they're cars, its not like you just slapped my wife. Anyway, I can see how you feel when people completely wreck a perfectly good car or with the annoying buzzwords people say. The tuner crowd definitely hates the "NOS" and the "altezza" taillights as much as you. I don't get too fired up about the dumb things people do to their car because I look at it this way: if you think about it, most people would not be considered to be good dressers. I don't walk through a public area and get bent out of shape because someone is wearing white socks with black shoes. I just keep walking.

[grislyatoms]

Sorta off topic but...

Dad of a friend of mine in High School was an engineer on a tugboat, always had to machine parts from stock while on the boat. Guy could make you any damned auto component ever created, if he had an example.

They put a Chevy 350 in a MG Midget...

In the words of Tim the tool man Taylor "Oh ah ah ah ah ah"

[NineseveN]

Complain all ye like, I think the new Camaro looks great. Okay, back to THR. :p