"Toy Guns Converted to Assault Weapons"

[Thylacine]

Guns America 80% AR15 Receiver : $179.00

Systema Training Weapon M4A1 M4 PTW MAX:  $1,495.99



?

[PTK]

Once again, the issue is not COST.

The issue is that a functioning, as-is M4 receiver, which is an MG by the 1934NFA as it is, is available as a "toy". It's simply not legal, not a matter of cost. :(

[Thylacine]

It has to be modified. "Drill one hole." (kinda doubt that it is that easy.)  So it is not a working receiver.
wasn't cost I was showing...... 80% plus modifying same result..........

[PTK]

Having handled one of the "airsoft" M4 receivers, to use, I can tell you that there are no mods to the receiver needed. NONE.

[Thylacine]

"To make the airsoft receiver function just like an AR-15’s, Gonnuscio said, “All you have to do is drill one hole.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/exclusive-toy-gun-sold-easily-turned-real-thing/

OK, I will have to take your word for it, since I can't afford one.  Just going by the article.

[PTK]

Fox news is a day late and a dollar short, as usual. Other sources (including those posted in this thread) say otherwise.

[RocketMan]

Do you have a tax stamp for that block of steel sitting over there? 

Whatever are you talking about, Tallpine?   

[HForrest]

But firearms expert Len Savage said the ATF is taking a “serious look” at the wrong issue -- or, more specifically, the wrong part of the gun.

The reason it’s possible to make these airsoft receivers function as real receivers is that all an AR-15 receiver does is hold the gun together, Savage said. So with enough gun knowledge, almost anything can be made into a receiver.

“There’s a line of AR-15 firearms out there where the lower (the receiver) is made entirely of injection molded plastic … It could be made of cardboard and scotch tape,” he said.

The most important part of an AR-15, and the most difficult part to replicate, he said, is the upper half of the gun -- which is unmarked, unregulated and readily available for purchase.

"The ATF is regulating the wrong part as a firearm receiver, not the part that goes bang," Savage said.

“The upper is what contains the barrel, the breech or bolt, that’s what contains all the pressure,” he added.

The reason the lower half of the AR-15 is the part with the serial number, and thus classified as the receiver, is that when the gun was created it was up to the manufacturer to choose the location of the gun’s serial number, he said. Because the bottom of the gun has a flat surface, it was the easiest to mark.

And though federal law has since defined a gun’s receiver as the part “which provides housing for the hammer, bolt, breechblock and firing mechanism,” Savage says the bureau has continued to mark and regulate the lower part of the AR-15 to avoid confusion.

This. This is something I've been worried about for years. And this is the first time I've seen it brought to light in the mainstream, which could turn out to be very bad news for gun owners. Now, I'm hoping the thought of regulating upper receivers is simply too unfeasible to be realistically considered. But the less exposure this airsoft receiver 'problem' gets, the better.

[RocketMan]

The key here is using a part of a toy to modify a working firearm.  It is not "converting" a toy to fire full auto.  It's disingenuous on the part of the BATFE to claim that the toy rifle itself is being converted as a whole.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

But the less exposure this airsoft receiver 'problem' gets, the better.


and that coulda happened if the company importing had straightened out their supplier.  instead in a they sought the support of the public to allow them to continue to foul up.  and the gun community rushs to crowd the cliffs edge.  in their lust to get at the atf they  help achieve a public relations victory for the brady bunch

[HankB]

Kinda makes me want to buy an Airsoft . . . 

[Viking]

Kinda makes me want to buy an Airsoft . . . 

Same here . An upper can be...procured .

[freakazoid]

Links for buying said airsoft gun? 

put an M16 hammer in place of the toy one, and snap on an upper with an FA BCG.

And those are so easy and cheap to get. 

Once again, the issue is not COST.

The issue is that a functioning, as-is M4 receiver, which is an MG by the 1934NFA as it is, is available as a "toy". It's simply not legal, not a matter of cost. 

With the right tools I could turn a brick into a gun.

[dogmush]

And those are so easy and cheap to get.  

Bolt Carrier
Hammer
Upper

And that's just the vender I happen to use.

I'm with PTK.  It's bad that M16's are regulated at all, but given that the are illegal. Then these are too.  This isn't makeing a zip gun, or turning an illegal surppressor on a lathe.  It's 10 min work with a Leatherman, tops.

Thanks PTK, that's what happens when I try to cut and paste tags.

[PTK]

Bolt Carrier
Hammer
Upper

Fixed the links for you.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

would that make a semi? or a f/a

[PTK]

Full-auto.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i thought so  but my skill set requires asking

[PTK]

No problem. It's why I like being on this board, having a gunsmith handy to be able to answer questions always seems welcome. :)

[sanglant]

now then, where can i buy an airsoft upper for a M16?

[PTK]

[gunsmith]

I disagree. This isn't just "stupid nonsense". Here are the specific issues with saying this is just regulatory nonsense:

The receivers are perfectly strong enough. (6061T6 aluminum)
The FCG pin placement, upper pins, magwell, and rear tower threads are all in spec.
There is a genuine M16 autosear in there. The "toy" has a legitimate autosear in the correct location.

To make this "toy" into a MG takes the following as an absolute minimum - shim the FCG by less than .050" (this can be skipped if you don't care about the lower surviving very long, it will egg the FCG pin holes out), put an M16 hammer in place of the toy one, and snap on an upper with an FA BCG.

Ta-da.

Not exactly a "toy".


If someone were selling "toy" STEN Mk2s where all you had to do was get a real magazine, ammunition, and screw a new barrel on, there'd be no question in anyone's mind. What gives, with this?


EDIT: Just to be 100% clear. These are not "toys". By the 1934NFA, they are a machinegun - a receiver that is in spec for a machinegun as-is, is a machinegun in and of itself. Period. Full stop. There is no conversion going on, they are already machineguns.

so couldn't you just take the sear out and put one in an AR15 and have a functional machine gun?

[PTK]

No, the AR-15 has a different configuration to that portion of the receiver to disallow exactly that. There is a block that isn't machined out on the AR-15 that IS machined out on the M4/M16. Additionally, the sear hole isn't drilled.

You'd still have to also replace the hammer, bolt carrier, and safety, as well.

[Matthew Carberry]

So in essence it's the pre-ban (or whatever the descriptor is) receiver config?

Not an un-understandable "oops" on the part of the manufacturer.

[PTK]

It's a POST-ban-on-new-machineguns receiver. They made a machine gun. How is this understandable?


"Well, it's just a toy!" doesn't really cut it.