computer research... round two...

[AZRedhawk44]

i want to be able to go to the store and, if i happen to see a neat game i actually want to be able to buy it without worrying that i don't have the system for it.

Then you want a PC.  Running Windows.

You get more hardware for your money with a PC than you do Mac, and you'll be able to play more new games, farther into the future as they release, because your hardware won't be behind the technology curve like Macs tend to be (... at least back in the RISC processor days.  They were always behind the bus with AGP versus PCI-express graphics interfaces, and memory bus speeds, as a couple examples).

And you don't want Linux, because no one is developing games for sale on Linux.  And getting Windows games to run on Linux is a headache you don't want to get involved with.

[BlueStarLizzard]

alright, i've been mostly impressed with Dell. the one i played with the most is the Inspiron 15, which with some add ons, ended up around $719 (one of the add ons is cheap, kinda dopey but i would actually use alot *blush*) its has:

Win 7 64 bit
320Gb HD with 54000RPM
4GB memory
512Mb ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4330 Video Card

plus several other bits and peices.

the other was a Studio 15, which runs about $769 with the bigger 72000RPM. the only downside on this one is for some wierd reason it doesn't come with MS Word (it has MS works but states really clearly that Word isn't included) but i'm not so sure thats all that bad since i can always go down to best buy or what ever and get office, or even just "find" a copy of Word since i don't really use the other stuff in Office. plus it doesn't have the goofy add on, but i can buy that from dell seperatly. so the real question is, is the 72000RPM worth the extra?
AZ, the reason i like macs is because they are stupid easy 

[Nick1911]

...one of the add ons is cheap, kinda dopey but i would actually use alot *blush*...

Well, now I have to know - what is it? 

[BlueStarLizzard]

Well, now I have to know - what is it? 

a USB digital TV receiver. 

[Nick1911]

I don't think that's dopey at all.  My only television is based on a TV tuner card in a PC. 

[BrokenPaw]

I'll admit to taking a pot-shot at the MacCult any time I can.  

I'm all for taking potshots at the cultists of any of the camps (whether it be Mac Hippies, Windows Borg Drones, or Oooooboooontoooooo zombies).

I just didn't want that kind of infighting to make it harder for BSL to make a proper decision.

I know that Macs are supposed to "Just Work", but from an admin standpoint, I don't buy it; my wife's iMac crashes more often than my Vista(!) laptop does.  From an ease of use standpoint, they're about the same, though there's a learning curve going from one to the other.

The machine that says it doesn't come with Word comes with MS Works, which is their sort of "cheap give-away" office suite.  Works has a word processor in it, but it's very feature-limited.  If you wanted a real word processor, you'd either have to fork over the cash for MS Office, or download OpenOffice.

You can't easily "find" a copy of Word, legalities aside; MS Office is an integrated product, and you can't install just the one bit (or not easily, in any case).

7200 RPM is likely something that you won't notice day-to-day; it means that data can be read from and written to the hard disk faster, and some other aspects of disk access are faster, too.  But unless you're reading or writing monster-huge files, you likely won't notice a difference.  Worthy of note:  7200RPM drives eat power faster than 5400s, so your battery life will be shorter accordingly.

-BP

[BlueStarLizzard]

would it affect game speed? or is the 52000 enough to keep it moving? (i like to run stuff in the background too, so i would have the game and music and probably a browser open too, which would occasionally make my sims hiccop)

[AZRedhawk44]

Installing "just Word" from an Office CD is do-able, but it's part of a more advanced custom setup procedure.

I'd recommend you just use OpenOffice for word processing, and save any documents to .doc file extension.

I have a TV receiver on my home entertainment PC.  It's pretty schweet.  My own DVR that I can burn or move content to/from.

I'd go opposite from BrokenPaw:  Get the 7200 drive, but only if you primarily use the thing plugged in, or don't mind a sub-2 hour battery life.  I hate listening to a hard disk searching for something and reading partial bits of files.

What video card is in the Studio 15?  The ATI one in the other machine should play games moderately well for the foreseeable future.

[AZRedhawk44]

would it affect game speed? or is the 52000 enough to keep it moving? (i like to run stuff in the background too, so i would have the game and music and probably a browser open too, which would occasionally make my sims hiccop)

Once an app is open, disk speed doesn't matter.  Just the amount of RAM you have.

But, it will help open apps or large files faster.

[Bogie]

Realize that the "brand names" don't mean a lot... Impresario, Supertiva, whatever...
 
It's just marketing.
 
You want GOOD PLAIN VANILLA, not a bad mix of strawberry and chocolate that someone tossed a bunch of foil sprinkles on...
 
Ah... And my Mac background... I'm bi, leaning toward PC - built my first IBM compatible in 1987.
 
Almost failed a graphics class that I NEEDED my senior year to graduate. Why? It was spring of 1987, and I borrowed a Mac Plus and PageMaker with a Laserwriter to do the final project. Teacher was NOT amused, and informed me that "this desktop publishing fad will never last, and they'll never replace real typesetters."
 
The mac I borrowed belonged to a guy who, when you talked to him, the first word outta your mouth was "Dean." He was NOT amused at the instructor.
 
Then there was my time working for Gemini Consulting - they were all-mac, and if anyone is hazardous to a computer, it's a Harvard MBA...
 
How do you fix -any- software glitch on a mac? "Hello, tech support - I'm not even going to tell you the problem, because you're just going to tell me to reinstall the system, right?"
 
Then I went to work for Searle. Which then got merged with Pharmacia, and I suddenly had 900 researchers who got switched from Macs to PCs... That was NOT a fun environment...
 
Since then, I was working with research graphics, and having to send my PC files generally to Mac people... It can be done...
 
What I'd recommend:
 
If I was buying a new machine today, and I didn't have to worry about my -expensive- software packages that will only run on XP, this is probably what I'd get...
 
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5722425&CatId=5138
 
And I'd use whatever monitor I had lying around, or...
 
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4605332&CatId=3774

If I was buying another business box...
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-Precision-370-3-3-Ghz-Tower-2GB-RAM-HD-80GB-/230476743813?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item35a97c0485
 
The monitor would come from goodwill.
 

[BlueStarLizzard]

ok, so it just gets stuff open and close faster. well, i can see how that would be nice (i hate that sound too. for some reason if it takes to long i start getting paranoid since it sounds like somethings being broken)

battery isn't that important for the most part. occasionally its nice to work out in the open, but for the most part i tend to park my computer somewhere. my reasoning for a laptop is two fold. the first reason is because i just don't have a lot of room for a computer, and the second is i'm not always home so i need something that travels to the other places i tend to park my behind.

hold on a minute and i'll look up the video card. i got distracted by the personilizing options (not that i would pay $85 dollers for such, just wanted to see what their "personilization" options where  )

[BlueStarLizzard]

Intel® HD Graphics [subtract $75.00]
 ATI Mobility Radeonâ„¢ HD 5470, 1GB [Add $75.00]
 ATI Mobility Radeonâ„¢ HD 4570, 512MB [Included in Price]
Dell Recommended
 ATI Mobility Radeonâ„¢ HD 5470, 1GB [Add $94.99]


those are the options.

[AZRedhawk44]

I'd say to get the Studio15 with the ATI 4570 card.

[roo_ster]

Intel® HD Graphics [subtract $75.00]
 ATI Mobility Radeonâ„¢ HD 5470, 1GB [Add $75.00]
 ATI Mobility Radeonâ„¢ HD 4570, 512MB [Included in Price]
Dell Recommended
 ATI Mobility Radeonâ„¢ HD 5470, 1GB [Add $94.99]


those are the options.

Run, run fast from Intel on-board graphics cards.

[lee n. field]

Works has a word processor in it, but it's very feature-limited.  If you wanted a real word processor, you'd either have to fork over the cash for MS Office, or download OpenOffice.

And, Works' default save format can't be opened by anything else. 

[41magsnub]

And, Works' default save format can't be opened by anything else. 

I'd use wordpad before the suck that is MS works!  I liked an older bundle they used to have for home users..  it was MS Works with their goofy spreadsheet and other apps but had a real copy of Word 2000 in it instead of the lame works word processor.

[lee n. field]

Sorry, BSL.  

A little of both.  I'm a reprobate at heart.

I loathe the Mac Cult and worked inside the pericardium of its rotting heart for about 5 years... in an upper middle class school district that oozed Macitis.

The simple facts of the environment were:
-All elementary schools were 100% macintosh.
-All junior highs were predominantly macintosh, with about 10% PC's for a handful of specific laboratory tasks in robotics labs.
-All high schools were predominantly PC, with the exception of:
*special education
*graphics labs

I do support one day per week at a small (~500 total) school district.  Have for 6 or 7 years.  When we came in, it was all Apple.  The mindset lingers.  They still don't have a Windows domain for teachers and office staff, just for the HS and elementary labs.  Everything is ad hoc, just "out there".

As a consequence of being there, I get exposed to a lot of educational software.  A lot of it comes from companies that seem to have a Macintosh mindset.  Their instructions don't always make a lot of sense in a Windows environment.  "Security?  What security?".  (We had a major app in one of the labs fail because security on the shared folder had to be "everyone gets full control", and a whole multi-gigabyte directory tree just vanished.  My guess is somebody whacked it by accident.)

OSX is slick, but put in the hands of your typical end user and it will start to deteriorate, just like Windows.

[lee n. field]

Run, run fast from Intel on-board graphics cards.

(And, (parenthetically), Ubuntu 10.04 still hasn't fixed the Intel graphics problem that made me roll back from 9.10 to 9.04.)

[BlueStarLizzard]

so since i think i have decided to go with a PC...

what should i do about virus protection/security? it wasn't something i really worried about with my mac but it seems like something i would need to worry about with a PC

which would you recomend, since it seems something i should be ready to get at the same time?

[lee n. field]

what should i do about virus protection/security?

Other than the two obvious answers (both variations of "don't do that then"), ESET Smart Security 4.

One customer I had a couple weeks ago has this, and it actually dealt with his malware infestation by the time I'd got to his place of business.  That impressed me.

[AJ Dual]

Intel® HD Graphics [subtract $75.00]
 ATI Mobility Radeonâ„¢ HD 5470, 1GB [Add $75.00]
 ATI Mobility Radeonâ„¢ HD 4570, 512MB [Included in Price]
Dell Recommended
 ATI Mobility Radeonâ„¢ HD 5470, 1GB [Add $94.99]


those are the options.

Get the ATI 5470 with 1gb if you want to play Sims and multitask music, leave the browser open etc. IIRC Sims will hit the mainboard processor and RAM harder if your graphics aren't up to snuff. And of course, there's whatever comes out next after Sims 2 or whatnot.

I think comparing specs between the cards, the 5470 will move/address double the number of pixels per clock cycle, and it has a 256 bit memory bus, as opposed to only 128 bits for the 4570. I also think the 5470 will support MS DirectX 11.0, and the 4570 only DirectX 10.0. Essentially all things video are about 2x as potent for the extra $75.

It probably does not matter much NOW, and I guess that the better card is not capable of running whatever 3D FPS is the most demanding and used as the "benchmark" as-is, (laptop cards never are) but for gaming, it'll at least keep you current longer.

[Balog]

Good deal on woot.com today, made me think of you.


HP Core 2 Duo 17.3” Entertainment Laptop
$489.99
+ $5 shipping
Condition: Refurbished Product: 1 HP G71-340US Core2 Duo T6600 2.2Ghz 4GB DDR2 320GB SATA LightScribe SuperMulti DVD Win7 Home Prem

[sanman]

so since i think i have decided to go with a PC...

what should i do about virus protection/security? it wasn't something i really worried about with my mac but it seems like something i would need to worry about with a PC

which would you recomend, since it seems something i should be ready to get at the same time?

I use Panda for my antivirus/spyware/adware/etc. I've been quite happy. You can get it online or at Staples, same price, About $40 for a 3 user license. I run it on both of our laptops and the desktop. Stopped Antivirus 2009 in it's tracks...that's a nasty one.

Comes with a firewall too. That and my router security seem to keep us safe.

[sanglant]

oh, one thing you can do for laptop security. if you like to have your banking and shopping user names and passwords saved in your browser. you can get an external hard drive, and do a separate install on it. leave it at home, and if someone steals your laptop they don't have all your passwords. oh and you should be able to boot to it over a lan(if you get the networked enclosure or hd) so at home you can carry around your laptop without the ehd and still be running on it.

[red headed stranger]

Good deal on woot.com today, made me think of you.


HP Core 2 Duo 17.3” Entertainment Laptop
$489.99
+ $5 shipping
Condition: Refurbished Product: 1 HP G71-340US Core2 Duo T6600 2.2Ghz 4GB DDR2 320GB SATA LightScribe SuperMulti DVD Win7 Home Prem

I came to this thread to suggest this as well. 

Also, Lenovo (formerly IBM) is running a sale on some of their laptops.