Lucas Oil, Sea Foam, other snake oil

[zahc]

Of course there's tons of snake oil products out there. But there's a couple that even serious shade tree mechanics around here seem to fall for, and that's Lucas Oil products and Sea Foam.

I used to be a fan, because putting a quart of Lucas Oil Stabilizer (the only product they had at the time) in my S-10 stopped the puff of blue smoke on startup from a leaky valve seal. Now, it seems like they have a product for everything, and their marketing claims are more and more outrageous. They have additives for transmission oil, power steering fluid, they have magic fuel injector cleaner (Increases Mileage!) and they even have gun oil. Do you think any of these products actually work, or are worth the money? It seems to me that the Oil Stabilizer, which is very thick like honey, probably accomplishes the same thing as running say 50wt oil instead of 30. But I'm not sure the principle on which it is supposed to work.

Another product is Sea Foam. People pour the stuff in their engine oil a few miles before changing it, or dump it into the breather line until smoke is pouring out the exhaust and then let it sit and work its magic on....something. Again, I'm don't understand the principle of operation of this stuff, but I just bought a truck with 100k miles on it and would like to do everything I can to tune it up and increase mileage.

What about fuel injector cleaner? Does it actually work? I mean, it stands to reason that the fuel injectors could be dirty, but I don't want to waste money on snake oil.

[bedlamite]

Seafoam is mostly Naptha and light machine oil, in other words a solvent with a lubricant. And is about the only additive product that works. I use it in my bike in the springtime, and in my truck every 10K miles. I've had engines apart that have used it, they are cleaner with no abnormal wear.

Lucas oil stabilizer does make the oil cling to parts better like that little gear drive demonstration gizmo on the auto parts counter by increasing the surface tension of the oil. What they don't tell you is that at the higher speeds an engine runs at is that a higher surface tension will turn oil to foam.

Slick 50 is bad news. I've seen the inside of engines that have used this. It's not pretty. Even Dupont (The company that makes Teflon) says that Teflon particles have no business inside an engine.

Most fuel injector cleaners are a mixture of Naptha, some other solvents, and oil. Use Seafoam instead.

[sanglant]

the fuel injector treatment it less than 10bucks, and if nothing else gets and water out of the gas tank.
this is the one i've been using in my subaru. it sits a lot lately. ass for the other stuff, no clue. i would check the wheel bearings though, that's close to the mileage mine locked up at.(first one back, then the other side. can't remember which was first. had the fronts repacked after the second back one went.) i drove an hour on one locked up, and had it heat discolored. was not fun.

[bedlamite]

the fuel injector treatment it less than 10bucks, and if nothing else gets and water out of the gas tank.

Water removal is from Isopropyl alcohol, same thing you find in Heet. Not as much of a concern since they started adding 10% Ethanol to fuel, that has a similar hygroscopic effect.

[zahc]

The truck is a 96 Tahoe with a 5.7 V8 that has 99k on the odo and which I suspect has more than that actual miles on it. It seems to crank over for a bit before starting and has a bit of a rough idle when cold, but otherwise runs strong and doesn't smoke. I already changed the air filter, fuel filter, engine oil, and I will probably pull the plugs and look at them, but not until I can afford to put new wires on it too, since my experience tells me I will ruin at least one plug wire getting them off.

[seeker_two]

I'm a believer in this stuff.....run a bottle through my gas tank every oil change....

http://www.rxp.com/products.htm

[bedlamite]

I'm a believer in this stuff.....run a bottle through my gas tank every oil change....

http://www.rxp.com/products.htm

That's basically a mix of Methanol, Xylene (octane booster), and Acetone. If you need to pass an emissions test in the near future, run a couple tankfuls through, it's great for that and it can improve mileage, but are you saving enough gas to make up for that $7 bottle? Nope. It's cheaper if you go to the Hardware store and mix it yourself, but Acetone in high enough concentrations can destroy a fuel system too. If you wreck your fuel system in the process, it gets a lot more expensive.

[seeker_two]

That's basically a mix of Methanol, Xylene (octane booster), and Acetone. If you need to pass an emissions test in the near future, run a couple tankfuls through, it's great for that and it can improve mileage, but are you saving enough gas to make up for that $7 bottle? Nope. It's cheaper if you go to the Hardware store and mix it yourself, but Acetone in high enough concentrations can destroy a fuel system too. If you wreck your fuel system in the process, it gets a lot more expensive.

That's why I leave the mixing to the experts.... 

[Jim147]

IIRC GM did a lot of testing on Sea Foam. It is the only non Goodwrench brand additive I have every seen in multiple service bulletins. I run it in a tank of gas form time to time.

For the oil, if I think the engine may be a little gunked up I add a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil a few hundred miles before an oil change.

jim

[grampster]

I run Sea Foam through all my small engines and boats at the end of their seasons and then top off their tanks and add some more.  I put it in my 6 gal storage tanks that I use to fill up whatever motorized boats and tools I may use in the various seasons.  I've not run any through my vehicles, but might not be a bad idea from time to time.

All my small engines, boats etc start right up and run well and all of them are over 10 years and up to 17 years old.  Auto parts guy told me to use it instead of Stabil.

[alex_trebek]

That's basically a mix of Methanol, Xylene (octane booster), and Acetone. If you need to pass an emissions test in the near future, run a couple tankfuls through, it's great for that and it can improve mileage, but are you saving enough gas to make up for that $7 bottle? Nope. It's cheaper if you go to the Hardware store and mix it yourself, but Acetone in high enough concentrations can destroy a fuel system too. If you wreck your fuel system in the process, it gets a lot more expensive.

I thought methanol/ethanol was hard on fuel lines as well.

How do you know about the composition of these products?

ETA:

I was referring to non E-85 rated fuel lines.

[never_retreat]

Old mechanic trick to clean a scuzzy engine.
Next time you drain you oil, only drain half.
Than top of with cheap ATF.
Drive it around town.
Take it home and drain it out.
Put fresh oil in.
Done.

Lots of sludge and deposits will be removed.

You can actually see this if you happen to have a engine that you can see some rockers with the oil cap removed.

[AJ Dual]

The Sea Foam with the Naptha probably breaks up some oil sludge getting fresh oil into those areas increasing overall lubricity in the engine and reducing parasitic drag in a few places.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=194131&stc=1&d=1248188565

And yeah, a bottle of HEET or ten in the gas tank will probably get your car past emissions. So will a bunch of rust-through on the TOP of the exhaust stack that bleeds fresh air into the mix before the DMV sensor reads it helps too.  

Doing a lap on the freeway with a sheet of cardboard blocking the radiator (if it's winter time) right before you go in doesn't hurt either.

[MillCreek]

A lot of people in the motorcycling community swear by SeaFoam.  I run some through my cars and motorcycles periodically.

[Brad Johnson]

Seafoam is mostly Naptha and light machine oil, in other words a solvent with a lubricant. And is about the only additive product that works. I use it in my bike in the springtime, and in my truck every 10K miles. I've had engines apart that have used it, they are cleaner with no abnormal wear.

Lucas oil stabilizer does make the oil cling to parts better like that little gear drive demonstration gizmo on the auto parts counter by increasing the surface tension of the oil. What they don't tell you is that at the higher speeds an engine runs at is that a higher surface tension will turn oil to foam.

Slick 50 is bad news. I've seen the inside of engines that have used this. It's not pretty. Even Dupont (The company that makes Teflon) says that Teflon particles have no business inside an engine.

Most fuel injector cleaners are a mixture of Naptha, some other solvents, and oil. Use Seafoam instead.

Main ingredient is ethyl alcohol.  Works wonders for turning hard carbon deposits into a soft, burnable state.  Works best if you can get it directly into cylinders.

For oil?  Not so much.  Most modern oils have sufficient anti-sludge properties to keep buildup to a minimum.  The old trick of ATF in the oil works, but can backfire if you have too much buildup that ends up clogging the filter.  You can do the same thing by running Pennzoil Ultra or Motorcraft synth blend.  They have extremely high boron levels and will clean up the innards of your engine just as effectively.

Check out bobistheoilguy.com for all the oil-related info you can handle.

Brad

[Boomhauer]

but I just bought a truck with 100k miles on it and would like to do everything I can to tune it up and increase mileage.

Change plugs, change wires, distributor cap and rotor button (if applicable), change fuel filter, change air filter, change the oil and filter. Find out the last change of transmission fluid and you might consider changing it.  That's it. While you're in there, might as well go ahead and change coolant hoses and the belt, and check the idler and other tensioning pulleys. You may or may not see an increase in fuel efficiency, but at least you'll have piece of mind of having some new parts in it.

100K is nothing in the terms of mileage.

[zahc]

When you say "run sea foam through X" do you mean you put it in the gas tank as an additive? Because around here the popular thing to do is dump it in the air intake until the engine is belching smoke and then let it sit. Or put it in the oil before an oil change. I don't know anybody that just runs it through as an additive.

[grampster]

"When you say "run sea foam through X" do you mean you put it in the gas tank as an additive?"

I use it when storing equipment.  Put it in the tank, let the engine run for awhile.  Shut it down, top off the gas and add more Sea Foam.  My parts guy says it's supperior in keeping condensation at bay in stored gas.  That's why I put it in my 6 gal storage tanks.  That gas might go unused through out a season, or a good part of a season.

[French G.]

Slick 50 is bad news. I've seen the inside of engines that have used this. It's not pretty. Even Dupont (The company that makes Teflon) says that Teflon particles have no business inside an engine.

I second that thought. I've rehabilated an engine run on Slick 50 and Caker State. Coal mine inside.

[seeker_two]

Change plugs, change wires, distributor cap and rotor button (if applicable), change fuel filter, change air filter, change the oil and filter. Find out the last change of transmission fluid and you might consider changing it.  That's it. While you're in there, might as well go ahead and change coolant hoses and the belt, and check the idler and other tensioning pulleys. You may or may not see an increase in fuel efficiency, but at least you'll have piece of mind of having some new parts in it.

Don't forget to have the timing belt/chain checked as well....100K is a good time for a new one....

[Kingcreek]

I have a lot of power equipment and engines and everything from the lawnmower to the 32 valve mercedes and the diesel equipment all get synthetic motor oil and good quality filters. Kreen motor tonic from the Kroil people (Kano Labs) is a good product for old or under-maintained engines.

[roo_ster]

Change plugs, change wires, distributor cap and rotor button (if applicable), change fuel filter, change air filter, change the oil and filter. Find out the last change of transmission fluid and you might consider changing it.  That's it. While you're in there, might as well go ahead and change coolant hoses and the belt, and check the idler and other tensioning pulleys. You may or may not see an increase in fuel efficiency, but at least you'll have piece of mind of having some new parts in it.

100K is nothing in the terms of mileage.

Might want to change out the oil in the rear end, too.

Check the brakes.  If they are bad, replace the pads & re-pack the wheel bearings.

[Brad Johnson]

but I just bought a truck with 100k miles on it and would like to do everything I can to tune it up and increase mileage.

As has been said, plugs, wires, cap and rotor.  Good ones.  AC Delco, Dayco, or some other established brand.  Bottom-shelf parts have a nasty habit of lasting just long enough to be out of warranty when they fail.

Air filter.

Flush the cooling system with distilled water and refill using new hoses and thermostat (make sure to go back with DexCool if yours had it originally). 

New fuel filter. 

Go ahead and get a new belt tensioner and idler pulley.  If you don't need them now you will soon and they are cheap.  Same advice on brand as above on ignition components.  Get good ones unless you like being stranded.

I'd be tempted to replace the water pump while you have the belt and hoses off.  Again, inexpensive and you will probably need one soon anyway.  Ditto brand advice from above.

Service the tranny.  Better yet, do a complete flush as a simple filter service only gets about a third of the total fluid volume.

Service the rear diff.  If nothing else a change to full synthetic will keep noise and future wear to a minimum.

As for injectors, run Chevron fuel for a couple of tanks.  Their Techron additive is a proven commodity.  If you don't have a Chevron handy, the Techron additive can be purchased by the bottle (I think Wally World carries it).

Check the tire pressure.  Mfgs recommended pressures are a comprimise between wear, ride, and economy.  Upping the pressure a few pounds will cause the ride to stiffen up a bit but will also improve economy, sometimes by a good bit.  In my old Vic, running the tires at the recommended 35 psi resulted in 20.0 hwy mpg.  Up the pressure to 40 psi and mpg immediately jumped to 21.5.  Ride was noticeably rougher but not obnoxiously so.

And last but not least, one of the best and fastest ways to improve fuel economy is to ease up on the loud pedal.

Brad

[zahc]

(make sure to go back with DexCool if yours had it originally).

Really? Lots of people I know loathe DexCool and recommend draining it and replacing it with green asap. There's lots of lawsuits about it too.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/08/gm_dexcool.html

http://sancarlosradiator.com/dex-cool.htm

[Brad Johnson]

Loathing it is one thing.  Replacing it is another.  If you replace it with "green stuff" you MUST COMPLETELY FLUSH your cooling system, including the heater core.  Preferably twice.  This isn't a maybe thing, either.  It is an absolute.  Mixing the two coolant types results in a gummy sludge that is impossible to remove without a complete disassembly and hot tanking of the engine and replacement of the heater core.  My sister and her husband found that out the hard way after one of the "mechanically inclined" neighbors told them it was okay ("Them companies is just out ta git yer money!  You kin put anything you want in 'er with no problem.") 

Some new coolant replacements are both green stuff and Dex compatible, but only as a top-off.  If you are going to do a full replacement you need to flush the system.

Brad