Author Topic: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...  (Read 31307 times)

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2010, 10:57:07 AM »
Quote
The seafloor is 1000' of very watery mud.

Well, that's Bush's fault  :P
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2010, 11:37:58 AM »
Quote
Well, that's Bush's fault
That SOB, when will it end?  :mad:

Avoid cliches like the plague!

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2010, 01:46:09 PM »
Mighty Putty!!!....and it only costs $19.95!!!....  =D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkuReA-AGa8
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,700
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2010, 04:24:22 PM »
I actually came up with a good idea that would plug it, but there are some practical problems.

What we need is to design and build a stellar scoop and a faster-than-light drive.  A plug of neutron star material, at the required 18" diameter, would only need to be a few microns thick to provide more than enough pressure to plug the well, the volcano in Iceland, and Joe Biden at the same time.

Your calculations are off.  Leave out plugging Joe Biden and your scheme would work.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Bogie

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,282
  • Hunkered in South St. Louis, right by Route 66
    • Third Rate Pundit
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #79 on: May 29, 2010, 06:07:20 PM »
Okay... They stuck a pipe in the thing to shove "mud" in...
 
Okay... They can do that... Stick another pipe in, or just two tube through the existing pipe, and start with the epoxy.
 
LOTS of epoxy.
 
Blog under construction

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #80 on: May 29, 2010, 10:54:48 PM »
Okay... They stuck a pipe in the thing to shove "mud" in...

Actually, they used an existing port on the BOP.


Azrael256

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,083
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #81 on: May 29, 2010, 11:53:20 PM »
Quote
Okay... They stuck a pipe in the thing to shove "mud" in

Ok, close your eyes and imagine for a second...

Ok, wait, that won't work.

Ok, imagine with your eyes open:

There's a tube coming out of the ground.  At the top of it is a big sideways t-joint, so there's now a vertical pipe with a horizontal tap on it.  Now, take the vertical pipe right above the t-joint and bend the hell out of it until it's horizontal.  Now pump very high pressure oil up from underneath.  Then you take a water-based mud, roughly double the density of water, and pump it in the horizontal tap with enough force to blow the oil back down the pipe without all leaking out what remains of the vertical pipe at the top of the fitting.

Now, look surprised when it doesn't work.

It's also worth noting that this procedure failed, repeatedly, with the Ixtoc well.  Actually, this has never succeeded with a full-on blown-out gusher.

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2010, 02:21:58 AM »
It's also worth noting that this procedure failed, repeatedly, with the Ixtoc well.  Actually, this has never succeeded with a full-on blown-out gusher.

They couldn't exactly run up and start hooking hoses to this one right away when it popped, before the press started taking interest.  How long does it take to shut down a typical onshore blowout?  I have a feeling there are probably a lot of successful top kills and other shutdown methods that we never heard about because the incident never hit the media before it was under control.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #83 on: May 30, 2010, 02:26:59 AM »
oh hell
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2011988248_oil30.html

By Joel Achenbach and Alec MacGillis

The Washington Post


   
It is the well that will not die.

BP's effort to throttle the leaking Gulf of Mexico oil well with multiple blasts of heavy mud has failed. The attempted "top kill" was abandoned Saturday afternoon, leaving the well free to pump at least half a million gallons of crude a day into the Gulf.

"I can say we tried. But what I can also say is this scares everybody, the fact that we can't make this well stop flowing," BP Chief Operating Officer Doug Suttles said at a news conference.

"There's no silver bullet to stop this leak," Coast Guard Rear Adm. Mary Landry said.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Azrael256

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,083
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #84 on: May 30, 2010, 02:58:31 AM »
Quote
I have a feeling there are probably a lot of successful top kills and other shutdown methods that we never heard about because the incident never hit the media before it was under control.

Yes, there most definitely are.  Perhaps I'll add "at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico" to "full-on blown-out gusher."

The problem here is the remoteness.  If this happened onshore, it might be an hour, it might be a few days, but the time it took would depend more on the availability of the supplies than on whether each step worked.  Here, they have to work in baby steps, from the least likely to blow the casing up like a big banana and toss the whole package to the moon to the most.  If the whole stack goes, they're done.  The ships all head for port and we wait for the relief well.

And really, it doesn't take much water to do it.  Ixtoc was less than 200' underwater.

And scale is important.  These deepwater wells are big, big boys.  Basic economics should make that obvious.  The Saudis can sink a well every ten feet if they want to, and for cheap (by comparison).  Off in the deep water like this, you get half a dozen holes and thats it.  The Ghawar field produces about five million barrels a day.  This latest one's cousin, Thunder Horse, produces about 250,000.  But Thunder Horse is all of seven wells.  The Saudis have thousands in Ghawar.  This blowout is on a wholly different scale.

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #85 on: May 30, 2010, 08:40:29 AM »
Now they're scared? What a bunch of dumbasses...
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Marnoot

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,965
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #86 on: May 30, 2010, 01:02:34 PM »
What happened to them being confident "because [they] have a Plan B, C, & D, should Plan A (the top-kill attempt) fail"? If they have other ways to stop the leak, seems a dumb move to be telling the public they're scared. Maybe they were blustering about plans B through D....

Azrael256

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,083
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2010, 02:29:10 PM »
Quote
Maybe they were blustering about plans B through D....

Oh, of course they are.  Plan A is drilling a relief well, and it's a sure bet.  Plans B and onward are just stop-gap measures because Plan A takes so long.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,411
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2010, 04:18:07 PM »
Actually, they had NO plan. The essence of their environmental impact statement was "There has never been a serious environmental problem with an offshore well, so we don't expect any with this one."
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2010, 05:12:33 PM »
Actually, they had NO plan.

They "had no plan" in the same way that I had no plan for dealing with traffic when I left the house this morning.  Yet, somehow, I was able to avoid at least two idiots that I can remember.  Just because I didn't write down every possibility doesn't mean I wasn't aware of means to avoid or correct for most of the hundreds of things that could go wrong.  Just because there are a few things that could go wrong that I might not be able to deal with doesn't make me an incompetent or careless driver, either.

230RN

  • I saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,013
  • ...shall not be infringed.
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #90 on: May 30, 2010, 08:57:46 PM »
Wait, wait, I got it, I got it! 

All we have to do is raise the level of the ocean until the water pressure at the new depth equals the pressure of the well.

Simple, huh?

Terry, 230RN
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

erictank

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,410
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #91 on: May 30, 2010, 09:02:19 PM »
Wait, wait, I got it, I got it! 

All we have to do is raise the level of the ocean until the water pressure at the new depth equals the pressure of the well.

Simple, huh?

Terry, 230RN

And you thought that globular warming was going to be all bad!!

 =D

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #92 on: May 31, 2010, 08:51:29 AM »
I just read in the news that all offshore drilling has been stopped, but that they are drilling a relief well  =|
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Nitrogen

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Who could it be?
    • @c0t0d0s2 / Twitter.
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #93 on: May 31, 2010, 09:12:54 AM »
Can someone explain to me why we seriously just don't blow this thing to smithereens?

it seems really simple to me.  Why aren't we doing thaT?
יזכר לא עד פעם
Remember. Never Again.
What does it mean to be an American?  Have you forgotten? | http://youtu.be/0w03tJ3IkrM

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #94 on: May 31, 2010, 09:51:22 AM »
Apparently BP wants to save the well.  =|
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Azrael256

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,083
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #95 on: May 31, 2010, 12:13:49 PM »
No.  The well is done.  This drilling block will not produce until we're at a Star Trek level of technology.

As for blowing the whole thing up...
Stop Watching Bruce Willis Movies

Everything seems really simple when you have no understanding of the complexities.

Nitrogen

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Who could it be?
    • @c0t0d0s2 / Twitter.
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #96 on: May 31, 2010, 02:01:43 PM »
No.  The well is done.  This drilling block will not produce until we're at a Star Trek level of technology.

As for blowing the whole thing up...
Stop Watching Bruce Willis Movies

Everything seems really simple when you have no understanding of the complexities.

So please explain the complexities to me...
יזכר לא עד פעם
Remember. Never Again.
What does it mean to be an American?  Have you forgotten? | http://youtu.be/0w03tJ3IkrM

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #97 on: May 31, 2010, 02:07:08 PM »
So please explain the complexities to me...

Do it yourself; turn on the garden hose, and try to seal it with leftover fireworks.

Azrael256

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,083
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #98 on: May 31, 2010, 06:59:06 PM »
Quote
Do it yourself; turn on the garden hose, and try to seal it with leftover fireworks.
That's actually not a bad demonstration, but it's only one of the possible methods.

The idea is not that you'd cram a nuke down the pipe and set it off.  That might work to collapse the formation if the geology is just so, but if you could cram an object down the pipe, a cement plug would be just as effective as a bomb (and a lot less radioactive).

Quote
So please explain the complexities to me...
So, we have two other options.  Detonate a nuke at the wellhead, or drill a parallel bore and detonate it down there.  Detonating it at the wellhead won't do anything but mangle the upper ~1000' of the casing and make the leak completely impossible to get to because the top ~1000' of casing is run through the sandy, silty goop deposited there by the Mississippi River.  It's something like cheesecake or a thick pudding.  You'd have to do a whole bunch of nuclear explosive excavating to get down to where the casing meets something hard enough to seal against.  If you want to talk about ecological disasters that dwarf this little popped cork, this is the way to go.  You'd have to eject cubic miles of earth to get anywhere with this plan.

Option two is to drill a parallel bore, drop a nuke down the bore, and blow it.  The theory (and I stress *THEORY*) is that it would create some kind of horizontal movement in whatever formations are at whatever depth which would choke off the flow of oil.  There are several problems with that.  First, it hasn't been verifiably tried.  This story about the Russians nuking wells is unsubstantiated.  With no reliable evidence around which to build an kind of model, there's no way to know if it will work.  Second, they're drilling a relief well anyway, so by the time you get to nuking depth, you're halfway to a proper kill shot.  Which leads to the most important part...

We don't know if setting off one or more nukes is going to be a bigger ecological disaster than a runaway well.  It may be that nuking the thing tomorrow is somehow less disastrous than letting it run another couple of months.  What we do know is that the well is one disaster, and a nuke is another, and combined that's two disasters.  And two is more than one.  That may seem sort of silly and childish, but it's just that simple.  Why go chasing one doomsday scenario with a second one?

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #99 on: May 31, 2010, 07:48:48 PM »
Option two is to drill a parallel bore, drop a nuke down the bore, and blow it.  The theory (and I stress *THEORY*) is that it would create some kind of horizontal movement in whatever formations are at whatever depth which would choke off the flow of oil.

You left out the simple fact that shoving huge formations around could easily lead to all sorts of unintended consequences.  It's amusing that the same people bitching about "screwing with nature" by drilling little holes in the rock support the idea of trying to cause a moderately large tectonic event.