Author Topic: Hip Hop Explained  (Read 3217 times)

roo_ster

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Hip Hop Explained
« on: February 03, 2006, 05:46:38 PM »
or:
"How Callow Is Your Youth"

I currently have a nasty sinus infection, so when I read the first bolded paragraph (my emphasis), I started into paroxysms of laughing/coughing that left me gasping, with a cough-induced headache, and my chest aching from the same.  This internet thingy can be dangerous.

BTW, the following goes for just about any music/art/whatever that relies on cheesey rebelliousness.

Quote from: Jonah Goldberg
February 03, 2006, 8:09 a.m.
And the Cheat Goes On
Kanyes scam.

I'm in no position to judge the merits of Kanye West's music. I stopped listening to rap when you could still find Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five on the radio. These days I think it's mostly just noise.
     
When people tell me, "Oh, but it's technically very complicated," or "You don't understand how much work goes into it," I'm reminded of a scene from Don Quixote: A man walks to the center of town and gathers a crowd for the show he's about to put on. The man picks up a dog and inserts a tube into its rump. He begins to inflate the canine. The crowd watches, fascinated. The dog grows larger and rounder. Eventually, the man pulls the tube out and the air escapes loudly from the poor pooch's rear as it runs away. The man turns to the crowd and asks: "You think it's easy to inflate a dog with a tube?" Moral: Just because someone works hard at something doesn't mean it's great art.

That's my disclosure for those who'd charge me with not "getting" rap music: Guilty as charged.

But I do think I understand marketing and public relations, and I am astounded by the naïveté of young people  black and white  who actually buy the canned rebelliousness not just of rap music but of most pop music.

West is simply the latest example of decades of hucksterism. Under the headline "The Passion of Kanye West," the rap star graces the cover of Rolling Stone posing as a bloodied Jesus with a crown of thorns. I particularly enjoy the publicity around the piece. Clearly borrowing from the same press release, publications across the country proclaim that the "outspoken rapper defends his brash attitude inside the magazine."

Ah, yes. It's about time. After all, it's so rare to find a rapper with a brash attitude. Normally they're shy, retiring types overflowing with modesty and humility. I was particularly enamored with the "aw, shucks" Andy Griffith personalities of Niggaz Wit Attitude and the late Tupac Shakur.

We're supposed to believe that West has been persecuted for his anti-Bush tirades and his determination to keep it real. But his biggest complaint is that people criticize him for being arrogant. "You want me to be great, but you don't ever want me to say I'm great?" he asks.

Of course, the editors also hoped to stir up some controversy, maybe even incite some religious conservatives to play to type, by exploiting the imagery of Jesus's suffering. I never went to Sunday school, but I don't recall that Jesus was crucified for being smug.

Its all such an obvious con game. We hear so much about how kids today are cynical, skeptical, media-savvy, and so forth. But if they're buying this hooey, they're idiots.

When asked by Rolling Stone if he's worried that his outspokenness might cost him a Grammy, Kanye replied, speaking in the third person: "Kanye is always opinionated and outspoken, and now that it's Grammy time he turns into a house nigga? Come on. That's not even realistic." Right, but the suggestion that the guy with eight Grammy nominations is a pariah, never mind suffering from Christlike persecution, is entirely plausible?

Alas, this shtick works. It certainly worked for such "gangsta rappers" as Ice Cube, Ice-T, and Snoop Dogg, all of whom once talked a big game about keeping it real and not being "house niggas." Now they're all successful mainstream actors. Messrs. Cube and Dogg make a nice living appearing in family-friendly comedies. I guess acting came naturally to them.

Obviously, none of this is unique to rap or "black" music (quotation marks necessary because white suburban kids are the biggest market for the stuff). Big corporations have been marketing "rebellion" since the 1950s. And the kids fall for it every time. In 1968, Columbia Records promised in an ad that "the man can't bust our music!" Madonna made her career glamorizing slattern chic and attacking bourgeois morality. Now she peddles children's books.

Today, there's a great cellphone commercial in which a corporate executive explains to his assistant that his new billing plan is his own private way of "sticking it to the man." His assistant replies, "But sir, you are the man." The boss says, with some dismay, "I know."

As far as the music industry goes, Kanye West is the man, but he won't admit it. Instead, he sells himself as a victim of a society that can't handle his truth. Four million records sold and saturation adulation in the media suggest that it can handle his truth just fine.

The problem is, it ain't the truth. It's just a scam for kids too stupid to recognize they're being played  again.


Want to be a real rebel? Read a book.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2006, 05:55:59 PM »
This has pretty much been the story of popular music since the dawn of record players. It is made to sell, mostly to kids, and kids really arent smart enough to tellt he difference between what is real and what isnt.

Chris Rhines

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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2006, 05:59:24 PM »
If I were as cluelessly stupid as Jonah Goldberg, I sure as hell wouldn't try to make my living writing opinion pieces...

- Chris

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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2006, 07:33:01 PM »
Great one jfuser, I think that article is dead bang on about the majority of so called "pop music".

As for "sticking it to the man", the fellows in Tool know what the music biz is about.

Quote
Hooker with a Penis

I met a boy wearing Vans, 501s, and a
Dope Beastie t, nipple rings, and
New tattoos that claimed that he
Was OGT,
From '92,
The first EP.

And in between
Sips of Coke
He told me that
He thought
We were sellin' out,
Layin' down,
Suckin' up
To the man.

Well now I've got some
A-dvice for you, little buddy.
Before you point the finger
You should know that
I'm the man,

And if I'm the man,

Then you're the man, and
He's the man as well so you can
Point that xxxxxx' finger up your xxx.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb xxx.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip xxxx,
And you bought one.

So I've got some
Advice for you, little buddy.
Before you point your finger
You should know that
I'm the man,

If I'm the xxxxxx' man
Then you're the xxxxxx' man as well
So you can
Point that xxxxxx' finger up your xxx.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb xxxx.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip xxx,
And you bought one.

All you read and
Wear or see and
Hear on TV
Is a product
Begging for your
Fatass dirty
Dollar

So...Shut up and

Buy my new record
Send more money
xxxx you, buddy.
I have heard some musically complex rap and hip-hop peices, but they have been few and far between.  Of course I don't listen to it a lot, since my musical tastes run elsewhere.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2006, 04:45:19 AM »
What Mr. Rhines said + the fact that hearing a rap song on the radio or on MTV doesn't mean that you've ever really explored the genre. I play the classical guitar and sometimes when I mention it to people they say, "classical is great for putting me to sleep". The "all rap is just noise and superficial" attitude isn't far away from the former. If you want to hear some GOOD rap music check out a few examples:

http://www.fortminor.com

http://www.aznraps.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=41&func=download&id=24&chk=bc757b6a90bcd153548d1fd01427bfe2&virtuemart=0a62feaf7a08a0ac27f2ff543186642c
^^ this one links directly to a song

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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2006, 04:46:19 AM »
And here is a song by Fort Minor about mainstream rap:

Please note it has adult language.

Quote
"Cigarettes"

Man I love this rap game
Mainly cuz its cool
To add a little spice to the life you've been through
Everyone exaggerates a tiny little bit
To make that *expletive deleted*it sound more gangster than it really is
You cant appear weak man
We wanna hear street
Wanna hear you spit your thug over this here beat
Dont take it as sarcastic
I can't get enough
Im telling you
You can call my bluff
If it's not rough, then I really don't need it
I'm not even ashamed
I got too much reality thats filling up my brain
so sell me on that chronic, I'm addicted to the game
Suck it up like a cigarette, light it up

Its just like a cigarette, its something that I do
Once in awhile but between me and you
Its just like a cigarette Nobody's really fooled
I dont want the truth, I wanna feel *expletive deleted*ing cool

Let me tell you something that I realized tonight
My hip hop radio is like marlboro lights
They're both selling stories and they sound about the same
Cigarettes say their safe, rappers claim they really bang
We dont care if it's true when we lay the money down
We don't believe the words, we just love the way they sound
They're acting like we're idiots, They're lying to our face
Maybe we are idiots, we buy it anyway

I'm runnin out to get the next rapper's CD
Just suckin up the guns, drugs, and misogyny
The same way that I suck up all the stories
When I breathe that little bit of death supposedly cancer-free and
Everything they say's got the truth twisted up
But twisted up's what I want man, I can't get enough
Cuz even though we know it's all just a big bluff
We just light another up, what
We don't give a *expletive deleted*ck

Its just like a cigarette, its something that I do
Once in awhile but between me and you
Its just like a cigarette Nobody's really fooled
I dont want the truth, I wanna feel *expletive deleted*ing cool

Its just like a cigarette, its something that I do
Over and over but between me and you
Its just like a cigarette Nobody's really fooled
I dont want the truth, I wanna feel *expletive deleted*ing cool

Listen to the words, Listen for awhile
Lip Service radio, dont touch the dial
If you're in the car
Turn up the track man
Give the whole neighborhood some second hand rap

Matter of fact
Listen to the words, Listen for awhile
Lip Service radio, dont touch the dial
If you're in the car
Turn up the track man
Give the whole neighborhood some second hand rap

Its just like a cigarette, its something that I do
Once in awhile but between me and you
Its just like a cigarette Nobody's really fooled
I dont want the truth, I wanna feel *expletive deleted*ing cool

Its just like a cigarette, its something that I do
Over and over but between me and you
Its just like a cigarette Nobody's really fooled
I dont want the truth, I wanna feel *expletive deleted*ing cool

Smith

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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2006, 11:27:32 AM »
Well, your CD collection looks shiny and costly.
How much did you pay for your bad Moto Guzzi?
And how much did you spend on your black leather jacket?
Is it you or your parents in this income tax bracket?

Now tickets to concerts and drinking at clubs,
Sometimes for music that you haven't even heard of.
And how much did you pay for your rock'n'roll t-shirt
That proves you were there,
That you heard of them first?

How do you afford your rock'n'roll lifestyle?
How do you afford your rock'n'roll lifestyle?
How do you afford your rock'n'roll lifestyle?
Ah, tell me.

How much did you pay for the chunk of his guitar,
The one he ruthlessly smashed at the end of the show?
And how much will he pay for a brand new guitar,
One which he'll ruthlessly smash at the end of another show?
And how long will the workers keep building him new ones?
As long as their soda cans are red, white, and blue ones.
And how long will the workers keep building him new ones?
As long as their soda cans are red, white, and blue ones.

Aging black leather and hospital bills,
Tattoo removal and dozens of pills.
Your liver pays dearly now for youthful magic moments,
But rock on completely with some brand new components.

How do you afford your rock'n'roll lifestyle?
How do you afford your rock'n'roll lifestyle?
How do you afford your rock'n'roll lifestyle?

Excess ain't rebellion.
You're drinking what they're selling.
Your self-destruction doesn't hurt them.
Your chaos won't convert them.
They're so happy to rebuild it.
You'll never really kill it.
Yeah, excess ain't rebellion.
You're drinking what they're selling.
Excess ain't rebellion.
You're drinking,
You're drinking,
You're drinking what they're selling.

-Cake

Winston Smith

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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2006, 03:42:42 PM »
ahahahha... I love how the article criticises the naivete and ignorance the people who listen to rap, but is obviously ignorant of the non-mainstream stuff.

90% of everything is crap.

90% of rap, is crap.

Rap is no better or worse or less or more valid than ANY other art form. Listen to "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash and then listen to "Hung my Head" by Johnny Cash.

Man, 21st century, and we're still stuck on the fear of the unknown.
Jack
APS #22
I'm eighteen years old. I know everything and I'm invincible.
Right?

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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2006, 04:02:13 PM »
Quote from: Winston Smith
ahahahha... I love how the article criticises the naivete and ignorance the people who listen to rap, but is obviously ignorant of the non-mainstream stuff.
The article was *about* mainstream rap.

Winston Smith

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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2006, 04:10:42 PM »
Ah, good point, I should probably read more carefully. But I think some of my points still stand.
Jack
APS #22
I'm eighteen years old. I know everything and I'm invincible.
Right?

Justin

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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2006, 06:09:19 PM »
Awesome.  An article where Jonah sets up a strawman and pummels the snot out of it with a baseball bat.

Color me unimpressed.

I mean, let's face it, Jonah Goldberg is just picking on Kanye West to shamelessly mug for his audience by beating on someone who is in the sadly unfortunate, yet vanishingly small group of people who happen to be even less intellectually capable than himself.

It's like in high school when one of the cretinous jocks would pick on a Special Ed kid.
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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2006, 06:40:14 PM »
Quote
It's like in high school when one of the cretinous jocks would pick on a Special Ed kid.
I think your giving a bit too much credit. I think its more like the chess club kids beating up on the stamp collecting club. Much like this article, i would find that funny too, but probably not in the same way that the author intended.

richyoung

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« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2006, 06:56:04 AM »
Quick, someone remind me - what instrument does Emniem play?  Fiddy-Cent?  Snoop-dawg?  Hard to cal it "music" when there's NO MUSICIANS involved, and even the beat comes from a box.  Plus how many darn times we gotta here "marshal" whine about his daughter?
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

Justin

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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2006, 07:36:50 AM »
How many instruments does Enya play?  Or Dhizan and Khamien?  Or Massive Attack? Or Harry Gregson Williams?  Or Pavarotti, for that matter.


*edited for spelling.
Your secretary is not a graphic designer, and Microsoft Word is not adequate for print design.

richyoung

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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2006, 11:56:07 AM »
Quote from: Justin
How many instruments does Enya play?  Or Dhizan and Khamien?  Or Massive Attack? Or Harry Gregson Williams?  Or Pavarotti, for that matter.


*edited for spelling.
If you are seriously goinig to equate a classical opera vocalist with the doggeral mumblings of rappers, you are beyond education.  There ARE circumstances where the human voice can be considered an instrument - "rap" isn't one of them - neither is oration, in a strictly musical sense.  Rap is nothing more than the modern offspring of the "dozens", crossed with jazz scat, minus the jazz.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2006, 12:30:24 PM »
Quote from: richyoung
Quote from: Justin
How many instruments does Enya play?  Or Dhizan and Khamien?  Or Massive Attack? Or Harry Gregson Williams?  Or Pavarotti, for that matter.


*edited for spelling.
If you are seriously goinig to equate a classical opera vocalist with the doggeral mumblings of rappers, you are beyond education.  There ARE circumstances where the human voice can be considered an instrument - "rap" isn't one of them - neither is oration, in a strictly musical sense.  Rap is nothing more than the modern offspring of the "dozens", crossed with jazz scat, minus the jazz.
If you cant tell the difference between vocalists and players then you dont get to lecture anyone on the inner nuance of music. Your argument was that the supposed inability to play a musical instrument was directly connected with a lack of musical talent, and that argument is nonsense.

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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2006, 12:59:00 PM »
Quote from: richyoung
Quick, someone remind me - what instrument does Emniem play?  Fiddy-Cent?  Snoop-dawg?  Hard to cal it "music" when there's NO MUSICIANS involved, and even the beat comes from a box.  Plus how many darn times we gotta here "marshal" whine about his daughter?
Well on the Fort Minor album, Mike Shinoda plays...all of the instruments.

richyoung

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« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2006, 07:16:33 AM »
Quote
If you cant tell the difference between vocalists and players then you dont get to lecture anyone on the inner nuance of music. Your argument was that the supposed inability to play a musical instrument was directly connected with a lack of musical talent, and that argument is nonsense.
They may have all KINDS of musical talent - among them may be the next Smokey Robinson or Jimi Hendrix - HOWEVER, they have yet failed to DISPLAY any such talent, as none is found in rap, (the "c" is silent.)  Shakespear is to "There was an old man from Nantucket" is to "bust a cap in yo a__" as Brahms is to Britany Spears is to Snoop Doggy Dog.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

richyoung

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« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2006, 07:18:49 AM »
Quote
How many instruments does Enya play?
One more than Eminem - (he plays 0) - after all, it WASN'T Enya that had to lift the music from an Eminem song to have a hit.  I seem to recall it being the other way around....
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

richyoung

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« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2006, 07:21:29 AM »
Quote from: richyoung
Quote
If you cant tell the difference between vocalists and players then you dont get to lecture anyone on the inner nuance of music. Your argument was that the supposed inability to play a musical instrument was directly connected with a lack of musical talent, and that argument is nonsense.
They may have all KINDS of musical talent - among them may be the next Smokey Robinson or Jimi Hendrix - HOWEVER, they have yet failed to DISPLAY any such talent, as none is found in rap, (the "c" is silent.)  Shakespear is to "There was an old man from Nantucket" is to "bust a cap in yo a__" as Brahms is to Britany Spears is to Snoop Doggy Dog.
As for playing and singing - I do both, and I've played with the band I started in front of crowds of over a thousand people.  I play guitar, bass, and a little bit of keyboards, and do a little singing.  I also have taught guitar and badd in the past, and I compose as well.

What are YOUR credentials?  Play anything, (outside of an MP3)?
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

Gun Runner

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« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2006, 07:51:50 PM »
Quote from: richyoung
Quote
How many instruments does Enya play?
One more than Eminem - (he plays 0) - after all, it WASN'T Enya that had to lift the music from an Eminem song to have a hit.  I seem to recall it being the other way around....
Which Eminem song would this be?
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richyoung

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« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2006, 04:34:17 AM »
Quote from: Gun Runner
Quote from: richyoung
Quote
How many instruments does Enya play?
One more than Eminem - (he plays 0) - after all, it WASN'T Enya that had to lift the music from an Eminem song to have a hit.  I seem to recall it being the other way around....
Which Eminem song would this be?
Gotta admit I was wron - it wasn't Emya - it was Dido.  (Where do they get these names?)  In the song "Stan".

Its the Fugees, Mario Winans, and the Pirates that copped Enya's music.

..and apparently P. Diddy, or whatever name he's using today.
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Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2006, 08:01:44 AM »
Quote from: richyoung
There ARE circumstances where the human voice can be considered an instrument - "rap" isn't one of them - neither is oration, in a strictly musical sense.  Rap is nothing more than the modern offspring of the "dozens", crossed with jazz scat, minus the jazz.
Wrong, rap is rhythmic chant that gets its origins from tribal ceremonies and shamanic trances, laid down over a heavy drum track and (sometimes) set to music.

But I will not dispute that it IS performance art.  It's a stretch to call most of it music.  Some is even artistically impressive and inspired.  

It's art.  I don't think it takes much talent to steal Rick James' music (without attribution or royalties) and chant to it.
But just 'cause I don't like it (except for Matisyahu) doesn't mean it's not art.

roo_ster

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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2006, 09:19:07 AM »
Well, this thread took on a life of its own.

While rap & Kanye West were used in the introduction of the article, the main thrust was the puerile rebelliousness hawked by so many musicians and the callow youths who eat it up.

It could have easily been Rage Against the Machine.  (I found their music somewhat interesting, but I could not stop from giggling at the way they took themselves and their infantile politics/rebellion so seriously.  Would that they took personal hygiene so seriously.)

All this unimpressive rebellion and the false courage it takes to express it gets echoed back & forth in the music/media sub-culture and makes them legends in their own minds...and the minds of some adolescents.

Of course, Sturgeon's Law is in effect: 90% of everything is cr@p.  So, some (~10%) of it must be more than sorry imitation, sampling, and posturing.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

richyoung

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« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2006, 08:41:18 AM »
Quote from: Felonious Fig
Wrong, rap is rhythmic chant that gets its origins from tribal ceremonies and shamanic trances, laid down over a heavy drum track and (sometimes) set to music.
I profoundly disagree - it's got a LOT more roots in the Dirty Dozens, the "Shine on the Titanic" toast, and jazz "scat" singing.  "Tribal ceremonies" my foot,...unless the Crips and Bloods are "tribes".
Quote
It's art.  I don't think it takes much talent to steal Rick James' music (without attribution or royalties) and chant to it.
But just 'cause I don't like it (except for Matisyahu) doesn't mean it's not art.
Agree on the Rick James - disagree on the art.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...