Author Topic: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?  (Read 18944 times)

MechAg94

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2010, 09:56:44 PM »
Medved talked about that some yesterday.  He thinks things were much worse in this country back in the 60's when people were rioting over the Vietnam War and there were 400 soldiers dead each week or so.  He also thinks things were worse in the 70's under Carter.  

In his opinion, things are not looking good right now and the voters look to be prepared to make corrections.  

I guess we'll see.  
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

taurusowner

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #76 on: June 11, 2010, 09:59:30 PM »
I hope I'm wrong.  But you and I hang out with different crowds C&SD, and the voters of my age will be here long after you.  I can count on one hand the amount of people my age that I think understand and appreciate self-responsibility.  You old patriots are going to be gone someday.  And  my generation of beggars will be the only ones left.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #77 on: June 11, 2010, 09:59:43 PM »
There are soldiers in my MP compnay who are on  unemployment.  Friends of mine that I've hung out with.  Guys my age, with some education, a lot of potential, and ability.  Guys who are on unemployment because they can be.  Guys who fill out applications just to keep the checks coming, and have no intention of getting a job because they don't have to.

now i gotta admit that that does deeply disturb me. i saw some of that in the past and agree there is more now.  how much more i'm unsure. it disturbs me much more than immigration issues.

on the flip side i work with some decent young folks. we'll see and i've not given up hope. on the flip side i've stocked up on supplies and am pretty well dug in
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #78 on: June 11, 2010, 10:01:41 PM »
I hope I'm wrong.  But you and I hang out with different crowds C&SD, and the voters of my age will be here long after you.  I can count on one hand the amount of people my age that I think understand and appreciate self-responsibility.  You old patriots are going to be gone someday.  And  my generation of beggars will be the only ones left.

two things
this I hope I'm wrong.
marks you as old beyond your years and likely wise too

and don't include yourself in that sad group of beggars
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 10:48:27 PM by cassandra and sara's daddy »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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taurusowner

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #79 on: June 11, 2010, 10:04:18 PM »
And that's all I see.  You and I don't walk the same paths or circles.  I spend my time on college campuses, in sociology and economics classes.  I think I know the pulse of people my age, at least in my area.  I don't see the same kind of attitude you have.  I see a generation of kids who will someday be the only adults around.  And it's a generation who thinks the government having its hand in absolutely everything is the best thing ever.  If I had to pick one phrase to sum up people in their mid 20s it would be  "why isn't someone do thing this for me?"

Let me tell you of something that happened in one of my intro econ classes a few years ago.  We did an in class project about expenses and used the average expenses of a student as the example.  Under the "Needs" category, people added cell phones, cars, entertainment, new clothes, etc.  I was the  only student in the  entire class of about 25 that suggested people don't need cell phones, or entertainment, or that a bike can be substituted for a car or clothes can be bought second hand from thrift stores.  I was nearly shouted down by most of the class.  Those things remained on the board under "Needs".  When discussing Income, nearly half the class was getting money from mom and dad, almost the entire class was getting student loans or Pell grants, and a few of the older ones were already getting food stamps and housing allowances.

The attitude of students and the adults of tomorrow is not the same as the attitude of some of your generation C&SD.  Many of my generation have no idea what a world even looks like without the a government being involved in the most intimate aspects of their lives.  In the minds of today's young adults and teens "a new government program" is the first and only thing they think of as the solution to an problem.  The idea of solving something by yourself, or doing something by yourself and being rewarded or punished by yourself is just gone.  Sports teams that give everyone a trophy just for being there.  "Zero Tolerance" school policies that punish everyone for the misdeeds of a few.  Even laws, like gun control, that hamper everyone in hopes of stopping a few crimes.  C&SD, your high school days were marked by people bringing their deer guns to school during hunting season and maybe having to leave them in the principals office.  My high school days were marked with metal detectors, full time school police officers, and random locker searches.  When your generation is gone, there will be  almost no one left in the country who has lived in  a world where government was not part of every single aspect of their life from birth to death.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 10:30:56 PM by Ragnar Danneskjold »

roo_ster

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2010, 10:36:40 PM »
RD:

Don't cry for me Argentina...

Argentina used to be wealthier, per capita, than the USA, not too long ago.  Mix in some damnfool marxist/socialist policies, stir in class/race resentment, and let simmer.  What comes out of the oven is chronic economic and political instability in a cycle of wealth-destruction.  Also, a genuine, "kill political opponents" and "start wars to distract the population" dictatorship/oligarchy to punctuate the periods of chaos.

It's not Mad Max, but it sure ain't bean bag.

If it is America that plays Argentina-a-go-go, we can expect the world's economy to contract sharply as our Navy pulls back to the coasts and the seas are no longer open to commerce.  Any new power to rise from the wreckage will be akin to the barbarian kingdoms that sacked Rome.  We can call it, "The Dark Ages Part II: Poor, Stupid, and Armed with Legacy Nukes."

you have a great deal invested in a scenario i don't see coming true.  its the latest iteration of the sky is falling.   we are in some deep kim chee but i suspect we will come out the other side.   we may end up buying it but this ain't it

America has weathered quite a few storms and still exists, more or less. 

So did Rome, the British Empire, and all other hegemon cultures.  They ALL eventually topple, as will America.  Almost invariably due to rot from within.  Not if, but when.  When the Brits went tits up, America was there to hoist the burden of civilization.  No other power of equal or rival economic output or dedication to liberty and the values of Western Civ exists. 

By 2050, if trend hold, Europe will be ~50% Muslim and America will be near those numbers of Latin Americans with no love for or tradition of limited consensual gov't.  During previous challenges, America could force newcomers to assimilate, or at least fake it to make it through the challenge. 

A fine example is the repression of German culture up to and during WWI.  Before WWI, there was a distinct German culture in America.  Afterwards, not so much.  BY WWII, it was deaddeaddead.  In 24 years, the pressure put on migrant Germans by gov't and other Americans had stamped out any ideas of separateness. 

The flood gates at the southern border have been open since 1964 and our elites have made it illegal to force assimilation while they preach multiculturalism.  We have a large contingent of people who care not for America inside our borders.  In any conflict with Latin America, we can expect them to take hte side of the enemy. 

With a ruling class that is intent on cultural suicide and large numbers of immigrants whose values are alien, it makes weathering the storms much more difficult.  Not impossible, as Rome showed it could last for hundreds of years as an empire/dictatorship under similar circumstances.  But, eventually, the rot is too widespread to hold under the pressure and what was once unthinkable becomes reality.  A reading of St Augustine of Hippo's works, life, and times is educational as he saw the transformation of N Africa from Christian to Muslim.

There can be rebirths/renaissance in cultures.  Victorian England was one such critter.  Victoria and her family stood as examples of good behavior to be modeled...and a great many did.  Britain was truly "Great" for many more decades had not Victoria worked her will on the Brits.  Likewise, after the barbarians destroyed the W Roman Empire, the E Roman Empire reconquered much of the West.  In that ase, it was a dead cat bounce, as Rome was truly dead in the West and the gains soon slipped away. America has had religious Great Awakenings that had huge beneficial effects. 

Maybe America will rebound.  Who knows?  I am not sure which way I would bet this time around.  Invariably, the dice will come up snake eyes one of these times and America will be no more.



Now, that all might seem a bit academic, but now that I have a wife & kids it is the stuff of nightmares.  TEOTKAWKI or American Decline to me is not an opportunity for Red Dawn-like antics, but my own personal book of Job

Doc: "So sorry, MegaDrugCorpUSA's shipment of stainless steel production equipment from Taiwan was stolen by pirates the week after the Pacific Fleet 'redeployed' out of E Asia.  They'll have the new batch of antibiotics your daughter needs in three months."

Me: "But, she needs them now, or she'll become deaf/crippled/die"

Doc:  "If they ransom the equipment, you'll have them in one month, but the price will quintuple.  You might be able to find them now on the black market for half your earthly possessions."

You can't store up all that we take for granted, nowadays, in some semi-rural bunker.  10,000 rounds of 5.56mm and 20 5-gal buckets of dry kidney beans won't freaking matter if you can't get the meds your kids need.  The idea of eating that many kidney beans indefinitely is grim.  Doing so after burying your kids after they died from <fill in with serious but currently curable ailment you find most horrific> would make me want to eat some of that 5.56 the hard way.
Regards,

roo_ster

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S. Williamson

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #81 on: June 12, 2010, 03:18:21 AM »
Going off of the exchange between Ragnar and C&SD, I must ask the following:

Has the fear of "Loss of America" been as strong within living memory as it is now? 

People often compare current events to the Carter era, or LBJ, or even as far back as FDR.  The thing is, as with any historical progression, the factors, both major and minor, are different.  Carter had his own poor decisions, LBJ had the Civil Rights Movement, FDR had the depression.  This time, we have all three, amplified in some instances, less severe in others.

I'd also like to add that my own personal experiences and interpersonal relationships fall in the middle of both the aforementioned posters' experiences.  I have many friends that work, understand exactly what a dollar will buy and what it won't; others, they are so dependent on the next government program that I honestly and sadly question their mental state. 

I will freely admit (blaming this evening's surplus of rum) that I am currently existing on the dole of others more fortunate than myself; the difference being that in this case, the donation is made freely (as opposed to taxation) and that I am 1) actually attempting to further my education and thus my usefulness, and 2) actually applying for work that I am qualified for and would fully support me.  My point is, the difference I'd like to point out is that for every dollar donated to me, for every meal that I don't "pay for," for every gallon of gas I burn that was covered by someone else, I feel a true and unrelenting sense of guilt.  Though I apply myself within (and beyond) their expectations, a bite of food I couldn't pay for myself or a block I drive that I couldn't cover, I feel I owe it back to my benefactors more than I could ever forseeably repay.

I hope to God himself that our current situation is not one on a path of violence and anger, where riots claim dozens of lives daily.  Rather, I hope that our political system remains untainted enough that it is still the self-correcting system it was intended to be, open to the true desires and concerns of the common citizenry to change as needed.  I'm Ragnar's age, and therefore not qualified to compare current events with the past.

I must admit, though, I really don't know where we're headed. =(
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #82 on: June 12, 2010, 09:13:30 AM »
the fear of "blacks taking over" had a very similar tone and urgency.  and was led by some of the same players .
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

longeyes

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2010, 12:36:52 PM »
Blacks didn't take over.

But the welfare state did.
"Domari nolo."

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Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

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Ryan in Maine

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #84 on: June 12, 2010, 12:37:49 PM »
I don't like where this went.  :'(

I agree with Rag though. I'm 26 years old. See the same stuff he does every day. It's disturbing in a way I can't accurately describe.

longeyes

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #85 on: June 12, 2010, 12:52:53 PM »
Where did it go?

I think step one is for us to be clear about the real current state of this Republic and then to understand the causes and the aims behind those causes.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

longeyes

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #86 on: June 12, 2010, 01:09:58 PM »
Quote
Insert Quote
Medved talked about that some yesterday.  He thinks things were much worse in this country back in the 60's when people were rioting over the Vietnam War and there were 400 soldiers dead each week or so.  He also thinks things were worse in the 70's under Carter. 

In his opinion, things are not looking good right now and the voters look to be prepared to make corrections. 

I guess we'll see.

The '60s and '70s made today's problems possible; they were a necessary prelude.

Medved has a lot more belief that the "system" will make the necessary course corrections than I do.  For a guy who is as culturally tapped in as he supposedly is I think he's missing some of the darker elements of the current picture, aptly described by posters above.  This is not the same nation as the America in 1975, not by a long shot.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

roo_ster

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #87 on: June 26, 2010, 11:19:22 AM »
Bu, bu, bu, bu, but he was an honor(0) student!  Little angel, wouldn't hurt a fly!

This is unpossible!




http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100626/D9GIOGSO0.html

Teen shot by Border Patrol had smuggling arrests
 Email this Story

Jun 26, 1:16 AM (ET)

By ALICIA A. CALDWELL


EL PASO, Texas (AP) - A 15-year-old Mexican boy shot and killed by a U.S. Border Patrol agent was among El Paso's most wanted juvenile immigrant smugglers, according to federal arrest records reviewed by The Associated Press.

The records show Sergio Adrian Hernandez Huereca had been arrested at least four times since 2008 and twice in the same week in February 2009 on suspicion of smuggling illegal immigrants across the U.S.-Mexico border. Hernandez was repeatedly arrested along the U.S. side of the border near downtown El Paso, not far from where he was killed, but was never charged with a crime by federal prosecutors.


A Border Patrol agent shot and killed Hernandez June 7 while trying to arrest illegal immigrants crossing the muddy bed of the Rio Grande. Some witnesses said a group of people on the Mexican side were throwing rocks at the agents. Agents are generally permitted to use lethal force against rock throwers.

The records show that in at least one case Hernandez was to be paid $50 a person for smuggling four people into the U.S.

The records also show that in one case, federal prosecutors declined to charge Hernandez because there were no "extenuating circumstances or endangerment."

Daryl Fields, a spokesman for the U.S. Attorney's Office in San Antonio, said he could "neither confirm nor deny that information."

Border Patrol officials have declined to comment on his criminal record, citing an ongoing FBI investigation into whether the shooting was justified under Border Patrol rules and whether the agent, who remains unidentified, violated Hernandez's civil rights.

FBI Special Agent William Weiss also declined to comment Friday.

Mexican authorities have called the killing a murder and some demanded that the agent be extradited to Mexico to face criminal charges. U.S. officials have said that is highly unlikely.

A grainy cell phone video capturing the shooting shows several illegal immigrants trying to scramble back to Mexico after a bicycle-mounted Border Patrol agent arrives in the riverbed. The agent detains one man on the U.S. side of the border and fires two audible shots toward Mexico after putting the man on the ground. The video shows what appears to be a body underneath a nearby railroad bridge spanning the border.

Border Patrol officials have said the agent told the rock throwers to stop and back off, but they persisted and he fired several times.

A federal official familiar with the investigation said Friday there is evidence that Hernandez was throwing rocks at the agent at the time of the shooting. The official, who has been briefed on the case and reviewed some evidence, spoke on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to speak about the case publicly.

Hernandez's mother, Maria Guadalupe Huereca, said she didn't believe her son had ever been arrested.

She said it couldn't be true because her son had never spent a night away from home and questioned whether police would have repeatedly released suspected smuggler after just a few hours.

"It's a lie,"
she said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "And if it were true, it wouldn't give them the right to kill him."

"May God forgive them."

State and federal prosecutors in Mexico declined to comment, saying there would be no discussion of an ongoing investigation.



(0) I guess the concept of honor is different south of the border.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

longeyes

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #88 on: June 26, 2010, 12:59:12 PM »
Mother-son love is a beautiful thing.  The Pieta' has memorialized this for all time.  Of course the mothers of suicide bombers either believe their sons are good boys who were in the wrong place at the wrong time or martyred saints.  Nature makes mothers blind for its own reasons.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Hawkmoon

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #89 on: June 26, 2010, 03:36:26 PM »
I honestly don't know any easy solutions to the Mexico problem (especially with the current political climate) - aside from making our country economically worse off than they are.
It doesn't work when only our people are willing to stop illegals from crossing over. Mexico has to help out, and they will need a significant push (or blackjack across the skull) to get them moving in the right direction.
It would be very entertaining to start taking over Mexican oil rigs to offset the costs their illegals are racking up in our country. If the Mexican government is not penalized for its support of illegals, it won't stop doing it. That could mean ousting the government. That could mean a full-scale, decades-long occupation by several hundred thousand (or a few million) US troops.


For starters, we could close down a bunch of factories and move production of Fords, Chryslers and Jeeps back to the United States. I assume (but don't know) that some of the GM vehicles sold in the U.S. are also built in Mexico.
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French G.

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #90 on: June 26, 2010, 04:34:52 PM »
But I saw a quote where his mother said he was a nice and loved young man who never was in any trouble  ;/

I suspect the miscreants know not to throw rocks at Mexican soldiers and police or else.

Momma said the same thing about the nice young man who attempted armed robbery of a liqour store some years back. I say "attempted" because in Portsmouth VA it is legal for properly credentialled customers of said ABC store to be carrrying a gun. Which one was. He responded correctly to a armed youth bursting in the door of the place. Strange how so many dead nice boys do so many bad things.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

longeyes

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #91 on: June 26, 2010, 06:23:20 PM »
The bottom-line is this: We the People are at war with Mexico.  Obama and the American elites may not be, but Mexico does not mean us well and is actively fighting a para-military war on several fronts.  The sooner we grasp this and took the decisive plenary action required the better our chances for not winning but surviving.  Amnesty is another term for white flag.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

S. Williamson

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Re: FBI: Mexicans chased away US agents after shooting?
« Reply #92 on: June 26, 2010, 07:01:25 PM »
The sooner we grasp this and took the decisive plenary action required the better our chances for not winning but surviving.
You go first.  I'll keep the TV on when you're featured in the news with a sword and a "Mission from God."  ;)
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"And are you?"
"No, that's where it all falls apart I'm afraid. Pity, it sounds like quite a nice lifestyle otherwise."
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