West Point Grad Erik Scott shot in what appears to be police snafu ( Vegas )

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

you have a guy at gunpoint  he grabs his gun and starts to bring it up to point at you.  your move  what do you do?  we'll ignore the reports you got and the fact he seems a lil out there

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

me?  i make holes in him
apparently if i was a cop there is another magical option
what would you guys do?  why?  how?

[brimic]

you have a guy at gunpoint  he grabs his gun and starts to bring it up to point at you.  your move  what do you do?  we'll ignore the reports you got and the fact he seems a lil out there

Circle strafe him and shoot him in the back?

[brimic]

we'll ignore the reports you got and the fact he seems a lil out there

I'll ignore the red herring about his prescription drug use. I've had a serious back injury in my past and have been using prescription hydrocodone for decades. From first hand experience, I can tell you that it doesn't make you into a violent zombie, more like taking the edge off serious pain in exchange for some mild nasea and dizziness. If the police want to smear his character by portraying him as a user of prescription painkillers and steroidal compounds, there are many of us out here like myself who can see right through the bullshit.

[Jamisjockey]

There you go. Dont talk about the actual truth. You'll be thought of as a cop basher.

Cop bashing is much, much different than discussing fallabilities with individual police officers and even some departments.  I promise that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell the difference.

[AmbulanceDriver]

Ya know, I have a feeling that we're gonna keep getting conflicting information on this until (hopefully) a grand jury has a chance to look at it.

Then (hopefully) the truth will come out.

As it stands, if he was being given conflicting commands and was shot while lowering his hands to follow another officers instructions, then it's clearly a bad shoot. 

If he drew his gun and pointed it at the cops, then it's clearly a good shoot.

(Hopefully) the truth will eventually come out on this one.

[gunsmith]

it appears to me he was given conflicting commands. afaik the video tape wasn't working so we may never know for sure

[AZRedhawk44]

Sounds like the holes in Mr Scott's body don't "line up" with the police story, if he has a GS entry wound in his gun hand armpit.

I also wonder if the muscular tearing from the backshot GSW's could tell whether his deltoids and upper back muscles were flexed versus relaxed, indicating his arms were up during THOSE gunshots.

Add in the "failure" of the DVR...

... Every day I come closer and closer to the judgement that good cops are the exception, and that bad policy, bad recruiting and institutional cover-ups are the norm.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

were any of those commands "grab your gun"

you make a good point though  three guys hollering is bad.  would be better to have just one in command like they do on a more standardized felony traffic stop. if i remember right though all that goes out the window when they see a gun.  any cop that sees it hollers gun and it gets real hectic till they get it secured. the last thing i'd want is to put my hands anywhere near a gun unless they told me too and even then it would be real slow

yea it was recorded to a hard drive that was bad


i hate stories like this  prescription drug abuse has overtaken street drugs in the carnage amongst my circle and its getting real bad in construction

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Sounds like the holes in Mr Scott's body don't "line up" with the police story, if he has a GS entry wound in his gun hand armpit.

I also wonder if the muscular tearing from the backshot GSW's could tell whether his deltoids and upper back muscles were flexed versus relaxed, indicating his arms were up during THOSE gunshots.

Add in the "failure" of the DVR...

... Every day I come closer and closer to the judgement that good cops are the exception, and that bad policy, bad recruiting and institutional cover-ups are the norm.

have you had a chance to read/watch the witness statements about what he was doing when he was shot?

[Hawkmoon]

it appears to me he was given conflicting commands. afaik the video tape wasn't working so we may never know for sure

Not tape -- hard drive.

But the audio recording of the dispatcher's radio was working, and it does indeed appear that he was told both to show his hands and to drop the gun -- which he was apparently NOT holding when that command was givem.

I also read just a few minutes ago that at the most recent session of the inquiry, a police detective who investigated after the fact testified that Scott's pistol was still in its holster.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

yea when he grabbed it he got gun and holster  there were pics of them on the ground

[Ned Hamford]

were any of those commands "grab your gun"

Well, if your being commanded to drop your gun when it isn't in your hand...  It does make sense that he was trying to obey that command, never taking the gun out of the holster. 

[Seenterman]

the us secret service handled the bad hard drive.  and it was reported dead by costco 2 days prior to the shooting

Huh?

If they knew the hard drive was bad two days before the shooting, why was it still in operation? What Costco only had ONE hard drive to record all their surveillance? Something doesn't smell right . . .

[Ned Hamford]

Huh?

If they knew the hard drive was bad two days before the shooting, why was it still in operation? What Costco only had ONE hard drive to record all their surveillance? Something doesn't smell right . . .

There you go, expecting competence from retail.

Muddling along is the norm.  Its fairly likely they were waiting for next month's maintenance allocation to make the replacement.

I've worked a few years in retail and know a fair number of other folks who have/are as well. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

when it isn't in your hand...

and that is the key phrase
look at what some of the witnesses said about the gun and how he handled it

[sanglant]

costco sells HDs, and for that matter flashdrives. with shoplifting at the rates they claim(i suspect a lot of the goods going missing are going out the back door.) what would it have taken to swap a good drive in? under a hundred bucks at any rate.

[vaskidmark]

No, you cannot take one out of stock and have Irving from electronics put it in the machine.

You have a national contract with a national company who contracts for local companies to get a repair order, schedule a repair appointment, and spend nearly three tmes as much time & money completing the paperwork as actually swapping out a HD like Irving in electronics coud have done they day they found out it was wonky.

There are procedures to be followed here.

But since we are at this time pretty much guaranteed that there will be no video from Costco's cameras we are stuck with at least three different general stories of whether or not he pulled out a gun and if the gun he did or did not pull out was pointed at the cop or not.

So far a few folks have remarked about the shots from the rear, but I just don't see that going anywhere yet as regards the inquest verdict.  Maybe I'll be surprized later on, but right now it looks like his family will have to resolve it via a civil suit.

And if we get to that, we'll have the same old OJ dichotomy - legally not guilty but living under a horrendous judgement.

Me?   

stay safe.

[MechAg94]

when it isn't in your hand...

and that is the key phrase
look at what some of the witnesses said about the gun and how he handled it

Didn't witnesses also say he didn't handle it?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

not exactly  they say they didn't see him handle it  and that may well be true   them not seeing it does not mean it didn't happen  i often miss seeing something  especially when there are cops flashing lights fleeing folks etc going on. i know the usual suspects had a lot invested in this being a bad shoot, they made a bad investment and the more they hold on the more they damage whatever credibility they had. hell even a truther would have a hard time making this conspiracy work. at first i had a hard time reconciling his families reaction till i heard the dead guys doc talk about the familial history of alcohol and substance abuse.  this is just the nadir of a multi generational tragedy . truly there but for the grace of a merciful god go i

[doczinn]

Anyone on here arguing either side with any certainty at this point should be ashamed of himself.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

ton of links here to various testimony
http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/25180021/detail.html

[doczinn]

Conflicting testimony from equally credible sources. And yes, I find average citizens to be equally as credible as police officers.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

there was less conflict amongst the docs  well except the one who never saw him and found out that someone wrote a scrip from his office, coincidentally during the time the g/f worked in the office. i wanna find out how bad the colorado incident was that dad thought he needed to make excuses for it in advance  and likewise the mysterious 2nd wife who apparently also has enough dirt that dad thought naming  her as a drug dealer/stripper in advance was advisable

[RocketMan]

The Secret Service has the wonky Costco hard drive?  Why?  Is there not a competent forensic data recovery company somewhere thereabouts that handles this sort of thing for LE?  Would not the county SO take charge of the drive, at least for appearances sake, independent investigation and all?  Why the SS?