Author Topic: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again  (Read 15847 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« on: August 04, 2010, 05:55:59 PM »
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100803/D9HC9FMO0.html
some of the legal minutiae are getting past sheriff joe   yet again

nmate complaints and lawsuits

From 2004 through November 2007, Arpaio was the target of 2,150 lawsuits in U.S. District Court and hundreds more in Maricopa County courts, with more than $50 million in claims being filed,[62] 50 times as many prison-conditions lawsuits as the New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston jail systems combined.[63] Allegations of cruel treatment of inmates as well as living conditions have been cited by Amnesty International in a report issued on the treatment of inmates in Maricopa County facilities.[64]
[edit] Recidivism

In 1998, Arpaio commissioned a study, by Arizona State University criminal justice professor Marie L. Griffin, to examine recidivism rates based on conditions of confinement. Comparing recidivism rates under Arpaio to those under his predecessor, the study found "there was no significant difference in recidivism observed between those offenders released in 1989-1990 and those released in 1994-1995."[65]
[edit] Inmate deaths and injuries

Family members of inmates who have died or been injured in jail custody have filed lawsuits against the sheriff’s office. Maricopa County has paid more than $43 million in settlement claims during Arpaio's tenure. [66]


and in summary

http://tucsoncitizen.com/three-sonorans/2010/07/17/the-notorious-record-of-sheriff-joe-arpaio/
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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RevDisk

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2010, 06:51:40 PM »

I figure it's much like having a professional sports team in your city.  Sure, it costs you an insane amount of money that you do not ever recoup no matter how much propaganda is said to the contrary...   But it feels good in bragging rights or something.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2010, 07:09:45 PM »
Convicted criminals are always making "allegations."

Also... I note that some of the original post has capital letters.  C&SD hasn't found the shift key on his keyboard, yet.  Are we copying entire articles and posting them here again?

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2010, 08:02:34 PM »
no i quoted a lil bit from wiki that had some fun stats that relate to the two articles i posted links to   having read them you would know that  but then one of the articles is real bad reading for sheriff joe fans.  why is it that his recidivism rate is no better than everyone elses?  and then there is the pesky reality that while crime all over arizona drops his climbs?  lack of focus?  not keeping his eye on the ball ?  or just a political ball?  then there is this

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn.crooksandliars.com/files/movieimages/2009/05/8199.jpg%3Fkey%3D1241852170&imgrefurl=http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/glenn-beck-claims-progressivism-lead&usg=__XQIuaYRsxmSJWuQ7qNjVBK-LyUg=&h=276&w=420&sz=19&hl=en&start=0&tbnid=XlohA3z4UXdT1M:&tbnh=145&tbnw=193&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsheriff%2Bjoe%2Bwith%2Bnazis%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D596%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=461&vpy=89&dur=2869&hovh=182&hovw=277&tx=57&ty=153&ei=rv5ZTNzCCIH-8AaT9bCZCw&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0


and this too  but its america you can be friends with whoever or whatever you want
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2009/05/joe_arpaio_takes_pic_with_neo-.php
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Seenterman

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2010, 11:03:05 AM »
Quote
50 times as many prison-conditions lawsuits as the New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston jail systems combined.

Convicted criminals are always making "allegations."

Ok sure but when you have a relatively small prison population that has 50x as many complains as four of the largest prison populations in the US combined, maybe something is wrong . . .  Statistical anomaly, I think not.

Sheriff Joe's hanging out with Neo-Nazis now!? Arizonian's keep voting for this guy?!

Stay classy Arizona!

RaspberrySurprise

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2010, 11:08:04 AM »
I'm not sure if that qualifies as hanging out or if the young guy had someone snap a pic while standing next to the car, the next thing that may have happened was the sheriff telling him to buzz off. It does make one think though.

It does look like he's going to end up costing the local voters a pretty penny though.
Look, tiny text!

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2010, 11:57:27 AM »
I'm not sure if that qualifies as hanging out or if the young guy had someone snap a pic while standing next to the car, the next thing that may have happened was the sheriff telling him to buzz off. It does make one think though.

It does look like he's going to end up costing the local voters a pretty penny though.

i think they have a 5 mill deductable too on their insurance  since all the other "incidents"

there is vid in those links that show joe giving his brown shirt buds a heads up  on where the marchers are listen for "they are about an hour out"   whats a lil intel between kindred souls though

and someone explain to me why sheriff joes crime rate went up while the rest of arizonas went down?  come on folks should be afraid to jaywalk there ..... or is there some element of policing missing?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MechAg94

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2010, 02:31:04 PM »
We are talking about the guy putting prisoners out in tents and feeding them baloney sandwiches right?  That alone would be enough to generate a lot of lawsuits.  I think a number of those prisoners would sue if their wine was served at room temperature instead of chilled. 
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2010, 04:12:33 PM »
Quote
Stay classy Arizona!

Will-do.

Sheriff Joe is worth every penny.  I'll continue to pay for him.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2010, 04:51:12 PM »
with permission

Top Ten Reasons to recall Joe

The staff at Arpaio.com has polled citizens and employees of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office and has complied this Top Ten Reasons NOT to vote for Arpaio.

1:With Arpaio, real law enforcement takes a backseat to publicity stunts. 

As an example in one of Arpaio's latest stunts, and at a time when there were 12 unsolved execution-style murders in the county, he staged a massive prostitution round-up publicity stunt. 

This two month "sting operation" involved over 350 deputies that were pulled off other investigative details and patrol that resulted in 80 cases that have all been declined for prosecution by the Maricopa County Attorney's Office.

Nicholas Hentoff of Phoenix wrote in a letter to the Editor of the Arizona Republic" If Joe Arpaio continues to spend the county's scarce law enforcement dollars on chasing consenting adults engaged in private sexual activity, while child murders and sexual assaults remain unsolved, he should be the one to explain to the next grieving mother why her child's killer has not been caught, prosecuted and put in prison. And the taxpayers should send him a message by electing a new sheriff who doesn't treat public funds as his private public relations piggybank."

> Top

2: He lives in a fantasy world of self-importance.

His claims of arresting Elvis Presley, breaking the French Connection, and being in weekly shoot-outs suggest a serious mental problem.

Some of his other claims include:

Arpaio: Invented the idea of housing inmates in tents.

Truth: This is untrue, the Arizona Department of Correction has used tents for decades. Facilities in other states also used tents before Arpaio.

Arpaio: Claims credit for feeding green bologna (surplus food) to inmates

Truth: Jails and prisons here in Arizona and all over the country feed surplus food to inmates and done so for many years.

> Top

3: Millions of tax dollars have been wasted on lawsuits

Lawsuits brought against Arpaio by employees, former employees, inmates, and the families of dead inmates have cost the county millions and Arpaio has misled the public about the cost to taxpayers of lawsuits.

The case of Scott Norberg, who died in jail, is a good example.  Arpaio has frequently said the $8.25 million settlement cost the county nothing and was covered by insurance.  What he does not say is that, at the time of the settlement, the county had a $1 million deductible.

Because of these lawsuits, the deductible for the sheriff's office insurance coverage has increase from $1 million to $5 million per incident.

> Top

4: He is responsible for a critical and dangerous shortage of personnel in both the jails and patrol.

This condition is unsafe for the officers, the inmates, and the public.  This situation leads to more lawsuits which results in more millions of tax dollars wasted.

Arpaio has created a critical and dangerous shortage of deputy sheriffs needed to perform fundamental law enforcement services in the unincorporated areas of the County.

Deputies that could be assigned to patrol, are assigned instead as personal bodyguards for Sheriff Arpaio.

Detention officers, desperately needed in the jails, are assigned to the labor-intensive, publicity-producing chain gangs in order to get Arpaio on more TV news programs. 

Projects that bolster Arpaio's ego, satisfy his need for publicity, and insure his personal safety are all fully staffed.  Unfortunately, at the same time on the streets and in the jails of the county, lives are placed at risk by Arpaio's self-serving abuse of authority .   

Also Sheriff Arpaio has the largest executive staff of any police agency in Arizona and perhaps the United States .  By comparison, the Los Angles County Sheriff's Department, the nation's largest, has half as many on the executive staff. The millions spend on excess executive positions should be used to hire employees that could be assigned where really needed.

> Top

5:  Hundreds of current sheriff's office employees, represented by a number of employee organizations, have expressed a vote of no confidence in Sheriff Arpaio.

Police officers associations throughout the State of Arizona have voted "no confidence" in Joe Arpaio as Sheriff! These include; State of Arizona Fraternal Order of Police, Fraternal Order of Police Lodge Five, Maricopa County Deputies Association, Arizona Cops.

If the police officers in the State of Arizona have no confidence in Joe, why should you?

> Top

6: The self proclaimed "Toughest Sheriff in America " is too fearful to debate other candidates.

There have been several debates scheduled this year between the candidates that are running for the Office of Sheriff. All the candidates have appeared minus one, Joe Arpaio.

Why is Joe so afraid to debate his policies in public with the other candidates? Could it be that he couldn't read from his "scripted" speech that he has given hundreds of times before other public gatherings where he makes his outlandish claims to fame.

Several years ago Sheriff Arpaio visited the outlying patrol districts of the Sheriff's Office to what was suppose to be a "question and answer" meeting between his employees. Instead at each of these four meetings he started out with his canned political speech telling the deputies how important he was and that they depended upon him for their jobs. At District's Two and Three, he was politely asked by Patrol Sergeant's in attendance if he could answer questions from the deputies. He hesitantly stated that he wasn't prepared to answer any questions but would try. He was then asked basic questions that involved officer safety issues, the lack of training, and pay issues. Arpaio fumbled trying to answer, and on several occasions sidestepped the question entirely. Weeks after these meetings, the deputies and sergeants that asked these questions to Sheriff Arpaio were transferred to newly created positions within the office. One assignment was being stationed in the basement of the main jail on graveyard to answer a telephone that never rang, and another to the property room, inventorying items in storage.

> Top

7: Arpaio routinely abuses his authority for personal, political, and vindictive reasons.

Two Republicans and an Independent running against Arpaio have all alleged abuses of power on the part of Sheriff Arpaio. In 2002, the county settled a lawsuit out of court with former employee Steve Barnes for wrongful termination after he blew the whistle on questionable tactics by the sheriff's office.

Barnes claimed that Arpaio's office wiretapped former Arpaio aide Tom Bearup and that it had targeted County Attorney Rick Romley for surveillance. Bearup, W. Steven Martin and Dan Saban, all running for sheriff against Arpaio this year, have also reported that they have been followed and harassed by sheriff's deputies.

Another example would also be the arrest of Nick Tarr, otherwise known as "Joe Arizona". In 2020 there were three hot propositions involving Indian gaming in Arizona, Nick's "Joe Arizona" character supported racetracks having slot machines, Sheriff Joe was supporting a proposition that kept Indian gaming on Indian land. For Halloween Nick decided to campaign in downtown Phoenix dressed as an officer. He went into his prop closet can came out with an old uniform shirt from DPS, his trademark "I Love Arizona" t-shirt, and a pair of Arpaio's pink boxer shorts.

Dave Hendersott, chief Deputy of the Sheriff's Office spotted Nick and he called DPS twice to have them come out and give Nick a citation. DPS officers came out and decided there was no crime. Undaunted, Hendershott then ordered his own deputies to arrest Tarr of impersonating an officer.

The charges against Tarr we later dropped and Tarr now has a lawsuit against the Sheriff's Office.

> Top

8: Many community leaders and concerned organizations have looked beyond the smokescreen to see the corruption and incompetence of the Arpaio administration.

Sheriff Joe used to boast of 80% approval ratings amongst the voters of Maricopa County . But as the truth gets out about how he really runs one of the nations largest Sheriff's Offices, his popularity is taking a nose dive! Currently the O'Neal survey lists his approval rating at only 35%

As an example, the Son's of Italy dropped Arpaio as being a "Top Cop" cited controversy over allegations of people dying or being seriously injured while being held in Arpaio's jails. "I just believe that law enforcement officers, like Caesar's wife, must be above suspicion," De Sanctis said, making reference to William Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar." "There's too much controversy right now for us to include Sheriff Arpaio in our report," she said.

> Top

9: Sheriff Joe Arpaio has deceived, misinformed and outright lied to the public!

He lies about his personal history, the cost of lawsuits, the effectiveness of his programs, and the money he claims to have saved taxpayers.   He takes false credit for posses, chain gangs, tent jails,  feeding surplus food to inmates, and pink underwear.

There are numerous examples that we can find where Sheriff Joe has outright lied to the public.

As an example, Arpaio spent over $10,000 in tax payer money to have Arizona State University study recidivism in his jail system. ASU found that there was no change in the rate at which inmates returned to the jail. Joe has discounted this study as false and continues to claim that his jail program has reduced crime in the valley.

Another claim is that Sheriff Joe has saved county tax payers millions of dollars because of his innovative programs. Then why can't he control his budget?  Why was he $7 million dollars in the hole in 1999/2000/2001 and where did the money go?  Why was Loretta Barkell put into the Finance Director with a title of Deputy Chief?  Because the BOS put her there and told Chief Hendershott that if he got a handle on the budget he would get his raise.

For More examples, check out our Truth Page.

> Top

10: Arpaio's self-serving and ego-driven actions have severely damaged relations between the sheriff's office and other government organizations. .

Joe Arpaio filed a law suit against the BOS over the money and he hired outside attorneys to represent him.  Joe and County Attorney Richard Romley have never got along in any way. He has never advised the City of Phoenix P.D. of his "Joe Shows" or asked if they wanted help and just moved in.


and this is 41 mill in lawsuits 

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/04/25/20080425manning-letter0425.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maricopa_County_Sheriff%27s_Office_controversies

scroll down a lil past half way for some of the dead folks joes made the folk pay for  apparently some are glad to pay  the dead folk and their families?  not so much

one of the highlights  a paraplegic that they turned into a quadraplegic  video shows

Richard Post was a paraplegic  inmate arrested in 1996 for possession of marijuana and criminal trespass. Post was placed in a restraint chair by guards and his neck was broken in the process. The event, caught on video, shows guards smiling and laughing while Post is being injured. Because of his injuries, Post has lost much of the use of his arms.[73] Post settled his claims against the Sheriff's office for $800,000.[74]


july 23 2004 was a banner day in joeville also

 
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Balog

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2010, 04:53:39 PM »
Without commenting on that mass of disordered links, anyone else find it funny that the only cop csd won't blindly support and make excuses for is the one who doesn't like illegals?  ;/
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2010, 05:03:55 PM »
Without commenting on that mass of disordered links, anyone else find it funny that the only cop csd won't blindly support and make excuses for is the one who doesn't like illegals?  ;/

As well as his consistent disregard to the new copyright policy on the board... :facepalm:
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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I reject your authoritah!

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2010, 05:18:50 PM »
Quote
Without commenting on that mass of disordered links, anyone else find it funny that the only cop csd won't blindly support and make excuses for is the one who doesn't like illegals? 

Par for the course. Not supporting a cop for enforcing a law, while standing for and excuse making for cops when they are suspected (and in some instances proved guilty). Yep. It's a little amusing.
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

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Jamisjockey

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2010, 06:47:42 PM »
As well as his consistent disregard to the new copyright policy on the board... :facepalm:

Quote
with permission

I'm taking that to mean he got written permission from the website administrator or owner.

JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2010, 09:25:34 PM »
yea  he/she was quite willing to give permission.  funny thing was early on i was a big fan of sheriff joe.  a cheerleader even  then after a while i kept catching a whiff of that same funny smell over and over quite disillusioning it was. when i finally had to admit that he was not what i had hoped
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2010, 09:27:58 PM »
Without commenting on that mass of disordered links, anyone else find it funny that the only cop csd won't blindly support and make excuses for is the one who doesn't like illegals?  ;/

or to play it the other way
anyone else find it funny that the only cop csd won't balog will blindly support and make excuses for is the one who doesn't like illegals?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Jamisjockey

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2010, 09:48:32 PM »
Children, children.  Knock off the petty.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

BReilley

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2010, 12:47:53 AM »
funny thing was early on i was a big fan of sheriff joe.  a cheerleader even  then after a while i kept catching a whiff of that same funny smell over and over quite disillusioning it was. when i finally had to admit that he was not what i had hoped

What's the "funny smell"?

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2010, 02:48:27 AM »
dead folks  mostly  plus a deputy caught stealing documents from the defense table in open court behind the attorneys back and the hoo haw that followed . couple that with the reality that his method while appealing to some aspect of folks psyche was not effective either crime rate or recidivism rate wise.   
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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longeyes

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2010, 11:37:46 AM »
As Goya noted, "The sleep of Reason breeds monsters."  The sleep of the people who ought to know better and do better in America, for half a century or more now, has bred a whole new class of flawed heroes.  But apparently they are the best we can do in terms of heroes right now, and we ought to be thankful, in a society of feckless types, we have ANY left.

Sheriff Joe may be a loose cannon but at bottom he is right to point out the nightmare, draw attention to it in the only way that people will absorb these days, and commendable for doing something about it.

Worry less about Arpaio and more about what is happening to what's left of America.
"Domari nolo."

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Ned Hamford

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2010, 11:44:12 AM »
Ok sure but when you have a relatively small prison population that has 50x as many complains as four of the largest prison populations in the US combined, maybe something is wrong . . .  Statistical anomaly, I think not.

Where there is smoke there tends to be fire.... but I think a large part would simply be a team of lawyers and law students trawling for complaints and helping with the filing.  This kind of number explosion is common when there are dedicated teams to an issue.  Rather than 5k folks being assaulted, there may be a single issue [IE bad baloney sandwiches] that is getting a boiler plate reproduction for every one of Sheriff Joe's 'Guests.'

Overall tho, I'd agree its political grandstanding more than any moral LEO activity occurring. 
Improbus a nullo flectitur obsequio.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2010, 12:06:03 PM »
even joes fans are strangely silent about the big ape in the room.  why has crime in joes fiefdom risen despite it falling elsewhere in arizona.  and how do any of the folks screaming "liberty" remain so quiescent about the deputy caught on vid stealing a document from the defense table in open court. his even reading it was a violation .  the word loose cannon falls short
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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longeyes

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2010, 12:16:09 PM »
Whatever Sheriff Joe is HE is not the problem down in Arizona.  Joe may be a loose cannon but he isn't the very real M-16 in the hands of the Zetas or MS-13.
"Domari nolo."

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2010, 01:13:25 PM »
even joes fans are strangely silent about the big ape in the room.  why has crime in joes fiefdom risen despite it falling elsewhere in arizona.  and how do any of the folks screaming "liberty" remain so quiescent about the deputy caught on vid stealing a document from the defense table in open court. his even reading it was a violation .  the word loose cannon falls short

Please don't make more of that than it was.  It was merely a situation of over familiarity, a needed form being taken from an expected place.  Yes it was wholly inappropriate and worthy of sanction and consequence, but it wasn't some pilfering with intent of any wrongdoing.  A situation for a face palm and a lecture, not fiery indignation. 
Improbus a nullo flectitur obsequio.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: maricopa voters get the checkbook out again
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2010, 01:26:59 PM »
It was merely a situation of over familiarity, a needed form being taken from an expected place.

er no  unless you are refering to another incident

or unless joes posse lied about what happened  they claim it was taken AND COPIED for security reason
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I