Obama Strongly Backs Islam Center Near 9/11 Site

[roo_ster]

i saw that coming!  was figuring you to say you were surprised they sent so many marines

One of those Barbary Wars only required one marine.  He sort of made up an army as he went along.  Resourceful sort of fellow.

[kgbsquirrel]

One of those Barbary Wars only required one marine.  He sort of made up an army as he went along.  Resourceful sort of fellow.

And weren't they?  Kinda like that Captain Porter who took his frigate into the pacific and captured something on the order of 15 British ships, placing them under his combined command. Given one ship he went and made his own fleet along the way.

[gunsmith]

from IMAO.us

With the left fighting this hard for a mosque, you’d think they do abortions there or something.

[MechAg94]

And weren't they?  Kinda like that Captain Porter who took his frigate into the pacific and captured something on the order of 15 British ships, placing them under his combined command. Given one ship he went and made his own fleet along the way.

I remember hearing that was one of the big reasons we won the War of 1812.  The British whaling fleet was nearly wiped out and much of its merchant fleet was suffering from commerce raiders.  Good thing we also had some success on the ground in the end. 

[Jamisjockey]

One of those Barbary Wars only required one marine.  He sort of made up an army as he went along.  Resourceful sort of fellow.

Actually, First Lieutennant Presley O'Bannon led eight Marines  and a force of 500 native mercenaries from Alexandria Egypt to Derna, where they slaughtered the enemy and raised the United States flag for the first time over foriegn soil.

[Gowen]

Please don't forget Captain Decatur who commanded the sloop USS Enterprise and fired the captured USS Philadelphia.  That too was with a handful of men.

[Leatherneck]

They should be allowed to build their accursed monument.
I come to this conclusion painfully. I was in the Pentagon that Tuesday morning, and I would feel the same way about a Muslim monument next to Arlington National Cemetery. 

Why?

We're better than those intolerant, insensitive bastards are. We live and operate our country by the rules laid down by great men. At times, it's hard to live up to principles, but the First Amendment wasn't intended to protect popular speech, nor was the Fifth intended to protect popular religions. We gunnies generally defend the Second Amendment as clear protection for an individual right to arm ourselves for protection from criminals and tyrants. We should not selectively back the Bill of Rights.

Besides, I can only smile as I envision the trouble they're going to encounter with blue-collar New York labor. Not to mention the hazards they'll face in their project, and the demonstrations they'll face if it ever gets completed.

Tell them "go ahead." And smile an evil smile.

TC

[longeyes]

And who will be called in by Obama to protect them if there's trouble at Ground Zero?

***

The underlying issue here is how far does a society that values individual liberty go to protect those who do NOT value individual liberty?  The Constitution is not a suicide pact.  It is not just about Muslims; we have allowed the American Left, with its autocratic, anti-individualist ambitions, to grow in all sectors of American life for at least half a century now.  Do we like what we are seeing around us?

[MillCreek]

Very well said, Leatherneck.

[longeyes]

And is the USMC going to force the unions to build the mosque even if the workers don't want to?

[Nitrogen]

And is the USMC going to force the unions to build the mosque even if the workers don't want to?

There are plenty of construction workers that will build stuff, construction jobs are down.

And leatherneck, well put.  The true test of a patriot is someone who values freedoms for people who don't value their own.

[gunsmith]

well said leatherneck, the only problem I can see is by not resisting their monument to hatred they will perceive it as a victory. Good for jihadist morale bad for the resistance.

[longeyes]

The true test of a patriot is someone who values freedoms for people who don't value their own.

The true test of a patriot is someone who understands his own values and defends them.  Keep embracing those who wish to extinguish our freedoms, citing some kind of pseudo-idealistic nonsense, and see where we end up.

[MillCreek]

The true test of a patriot is someone who understands his own values and defends them.  Keep embracing those who wish to extinguish our freedoms, citing some kind of pseudo-idealistic nonsense, and see where we end up.

True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.
Clarence Darrow

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The true test of a patriot is someone who understands his own values and defends them.  Keep embracing those who wish to extinguish our freedoms, citing some kind of pseudo-idealistic nonsense, and see where we end up.

so your kinda an ends justify the means guy?  been a recurrent theme in world politics  one particularly almost successful leader comes to mind

[makattak]

The true test of a patriot is someone who values freedoms for people who don't value their own.

What was your position on the war in Iraq/Afghanistan again?

[longeyes]

Patriotism, by itself, means nothing but loyalty to one's own; that doesn't mean that one's own endorse enlightened values.

My position on the Iraq/Afghanistan wars is that we should be there only to defend our national interests and security, not to "spread democracy." 

[longeyes]

so your kinda an ends justify the means guy?  been a recurrent theme in world politics  one particularly almost successful leader comes to mind

You know, Cassandra, the "Nazi" accusations really don't fly.  Every nation is "patriotic," and, as I said, that BY ITSELF is not a guarantee of anything.  I happen to believe that our core republican values ARE enlightened, but I doubt that we will be very successful in inculcating those virtues in historically alien cultures unless those societies are vanquished in war and forcibly re-educated.  That does not mean I advise this course, incidentally; what I advise is doing what's necessary and only what's necessary to protect ourselves both externally and internally.

[Nitrogen]

What was your position on the war in Iraq/Afghanistan again?

I was against both wars unless we raised taxes to pay for them.

[Ron]

How to win the clash of civilizations           http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703426004575338471355710184.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopOpinion           

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I don't see this victory mosque as a house of worship so much as a furtherance of the ongoing effort to undermine the US constitution in favor of Sharia law.  I don't think that the people behind the mosque give a flying fig about religious tolerance or freedom in general.  Rather, I think those people are smart enough to (mis)use our reverence for freedom in their bid to take freedom away from us.  

I'm in no mood to let them succeed at that.

This mosque isn't about being free to worship as you please.  Blocking this particular land development in no way impedes anyone's ability to practice Islam in NYC.  The location is highly suspect, not only for the connection to sacred land at ground zero, but also for the general neighborhood.  Recall that ground zero and the WTC is/was located in the heart of the financial district, a business and commercial district, not in a community neighborhood where people live, play, and go to church.  There is no sensible reason to put a "Muslim community center" there, other than the obvious appeal as a victory shrine, and no compelling city planning reason the city to support it.

And now I hear folks like Nancy Pelosi want to investigate the opposition to the mosque.  No mention of investigating the men and intentions behind the mosque, no sirree.  And no regard for the 1A rights of the 3/4's of the country opposed to the mosque to voice their opinions.  Those evil people (us) need to be investigated and silenced.  

The appeals to the 1A in favor of this mosque are borked up fifteen ways from Sunday.  This ain't about religious freedom, it's all about politics and the culture war.  And it stinks to high heaven.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

a furtherance of the ongoing effort to undermine the US constitution in favor of Sharia law.


got it!  so if enough folks crap on the constitution to oppose this it undermines the constitution and advances shari..... thats fiendishly clever!  once they trick us into forgetting about our own constitution the camels nose is in the tent and they win.



Recall that ground zero and the WTC is/was located in the heart of the financial district, a business and commercial district, not in a community neighborhood where people live, play, and go to church.  There is no sensible reason to put a "Muslim community center" there,


recall that muslims pray 5 times a day and devout ones like to join others for that when they can.  then there is this.....
http://factcheck.org/2010/08/no-pentagon-mosque/

http://northernvirginiastan.blogspot.com/2006/06/mosque-at-quantico.html

[Perd Hapley]

Patriotism, by itself, means nothing but loyalty to one's own...

Thank you. 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

got it!  so if enough folks crap on the constitution to oppose this it undermines the constitution and advances shari..... thats fiendishly clever!  once they trick us into forgetting about our own constitution the camels nose is in the tent and they win.

Apparently I need to say it again: opposing this particular development isn't a 1A religious freedom issue.

Recall that ground zero and the WTC is/was located in the heart of the financial district, a business and commercial district, not in a community neighborhood where people live, play, and go to church.  There is no sensible reason to put a "Muslim community center" there,


recall that muslims pray 5 times a day and devout ones like to join others for that when they can.  then there is this.....
http://factcheck.org/2010/08/no-pentagon-mosque/

http://northernvirginiastan.blogspot.com/2006/06/mosque-at-quantico.html

So lemme get this straight.  There is not a mosuqe inside the pentagon.  There is a mosque at Quantico.  Therefore... umm, what's your point, exactly?   

[roo_ster]

The true test of a patriot is someone who values freedoms for people who don't value their own.

That's not a test for patriotism, it is a test for soft-headedness an inability to understand human nature.

This might help:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/patriotism

How to win the clash of civilizations           http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703426004575338471355710184.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopOpinion           

Yes, indeed, looking at the world as it is, not as what we would like it to be.

a furtherance of the ongoing effort to undermine the US constitution in favor of Sharia law.


got it!  so if enough folks crap on the constitution to oppose this it undermines the constitution and advances shari..... thats fiendishly clever!  once they trick us into forgetting about our own constitution the camels nose is in the tent and they win.

CSD, you're going to have to separate delusion & propaganda from reality.  For instance, it is not unConstitutional to oppose the GZM.  Well, maybe to a "Living Constitution" type to whom the COTUS is nothing but a tool to further their own ends and is re-interpreted depending on their political ends, but the plain text does not support your assertion.

recall that muslims pray 5 times a day and devout ones like to join others for that when they can.

Well, they can join their co-religionists at the 100+/- other mosques in NYC that have managed to brave the horrific unConstitutional gauntlet of criticism.     BTW, that works out to one mosque every 4 square miles.

Besides, I thought the GZM wasn't a mosque, but a muslim community center focusing on interfaith dialog, Jim Wallis lectures, and fluffy unicorns?