McCain in the Lead ?

[Waitone]

What's up with that? 

Us easterners are fed a line about Hayworth being driven snow clean and ideologically pure.  Yet we see Arizonians preparing to send McCain back to do it to 'em again.  Can anyone in AZ explain what is going on?  We here in the east surely aren't getting the straight skinny.

[AZRedhawk44]

McCain's probably going to win.

I'm voting Hayworth.

They're both poli-tards, and they're both incumbents (in a way), so it's hard to oust McCain with another semi-incumbent when the whole nation is riding an anti-incumbent wave.

My dream was to flush McCain, then flush Hayworth in another 6 years, just to teach incumbentism a lesson.  Doesn't look like it's gonna happen, though.  Hayworth has too much sleeze from his time in DC as a Rep.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Hayworth has too much sleeze from his time in DC as a Rep.

great concise analysis   very true

[Waitone]

What sleaze.  It the guy a kitty stomper? 

[AZRedhawk44]

Complained about lobbyists when he was a Rep, but became a lobbyist for a Florida company briefly after he was voted out.  Inattention to detail with budget bills and did allow a little bit of pork through without complaining.  Then there's the NeoCon angle that he has, rather than McCain's RINO tendencies.

That's the inherent problem we have:  He's only grudgingly endorsed by the local Tea Parties and it came very late in the game.  Actually, the Tea Parties were very critical of him as a candidate.

We don't have a good Tea Party candidate for that particular race, which is a shame.  It was a chance to fix 1% of the Senate (and at a Senior Senate Leadership position, which will have much more than a mere 1% impact on the Senate).

[Waitone]

So are the TEA parties a no-so-big-deal in AZ?  Or are AZians the forgiving type to let bygones be bygone WRT McCain's immigration stance(s).  I would have thought immigration would have been McCain's Waterloo seeing how the state is just about up in arms over the subject.  Then again maybe AZ hasn't moved to the point of throwing its own bum out.  It tells me Hayworth is bad news and the voter knew it.

[AZRedhawk44]

Not big enough.

We have a very well developed Libertarian front here.  All us disgruntled folks know them, rather than working on the TEA Party angle.

As far as immigration... McCain has an effective forked tongue.

And it will bite AZ in the *expletive deleted*ss in the next two years, I think, with a new Amnesty now that we have a sham of an enforcement bill (a couple thousand NG troops on the border again... whooptidoo).  "Comprehensive Immigration Reform."

[BReilley]

So are the TEA parties a no-so-big-deal in AZ?  Or are AZians the forgiving type to let bygones be bygone WRT McCain's immigration stance(s).  I would have thought immigration would have been McCain's Waterloo seeing how the state is just about up in arms over the subject.  Then again maybe AZ hasn't moved to the point of throwing its own bum out.  It tells me Hayworth is bad news and the voter knew it.

McCain is Arizona's turd that just won't flush, and though Hayworth is not much better, I would prefer his sleaze(as Redhawk said, at least for the time being) to McCain's uselessness/destructiveness.  Plus, I'm still angry with him for giving us Obama, and I would almost vote against him out of pure spite.
It's interesting to me that Hayworth is being presented as a clean candidate, outside of Arizona.  My mailbox is regularly filled with anti-Hayworth flyers showing him as essentially a Shamwow salesman for government grant "kits".

McCain is the kind of Republican candidate that belongs in a hole like California, where it's expected that even the "conservative" canditate believe in the great fraud of global warming and support America-killing ideas like amnesty.  Oh yeah, and get friendly with liberals and shout that you're a maverick who isn't bound to your party's line - as if we didn't know already

Your Waterloo reference reminds me of an Obama spokesman's statement which still makes me giggle: a year or so ago, Jim DeMint said that the healthcare bill would be Obama's Waterloo, referring of course to Napoleon's pivotal battle.  The Obama mouthpiece said that he seemed to remember Obama doing pretty well in Iowa at the polls.

[Monkeyleg]

Your Waterloo reference reminds me of an Obama spokesman's statement which still makes me giggle: a year or so ago, Jim DeMint said that the healthcare bill would be Obama's Waterloo, referring of course to Napoleon's pivotal battle.  The Obama mouthpiece said that he seemed to remember Obama doing pretty well in Iowa at the polls.

:D :D :D

[Gowen]

We don't have a good Tea Party candidate for that particular race, which is a shame.  It was a chance to fix 1% of the Senate (and at a Senior Senate Leadership position, which will have much more than a mere 1% impact on the Senate).

The same can be said if reid gets back in.  Reid isn't liked, but people have reservations about Sharon Angle.

[Perd Hapley]

Your Waterloo reference reminds me of an Obama spokesman's statement which still makes me giggle: a year or so ago, Jim DeMint said that the healthcare bill would be Obama's Waterloo, referring of course to Napoleon's pivotal battle.  The Obama mouthpiece said that he seemed to remember Obama doing pretty well in Iowa at the polls.

It least he didn't think it was an ABBA reference.

[Monkeyleg]

It least he didn't think it was an ABBA reference.

Waterloo.

Thanks a lot.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Hayworth hasn't helped himself much, here.  McCain's lead is by default, there isn't an opposition candidate worth voting for.

[Waitone]

I can only conclude McCain wasn't that bad by AZ standards.  Otherwise there would be an ABM movement.

[AZRedhawk44]

I don't think you're well informed in regards to Hayworth, Waitone.

The choice in front of us is as follows:

1.  Replace McCain right now, in his 80's, for a young Hayworth.  Hayworth has youth, health, and a history of previous problems, but he at least has a solid stance on immigration issues and a disdain for social welfare programs.  He'd be OK for 6 years, but very hard to oust after rooting himself into the office.

2.  Give McCain one more term.  He'll probably retire after this one, and if not (and he backstabs us AGAIN) then we'll get a good candidate next time (instead of the questionable Hayworth).

[Waitone]

Is there a general realization that McCain will revert to pattern after election or has the electorate concluded he's seen the light and that his past is past.  Over here on the east coast McCain's Little Me has announced his support of doing away with birthright citizenship.  Ain't no one buyin' it.  It is seen as an attempt by Little Me to  manufacture a  poker chip which can be played when "comprehensive amnest. . . .er, immigration reform" game begins. 

I'm asking questions because I suspect skulduggery afoot.  By all measures we are about to witness a tsunami of voter rejection of the power structure.  At least that is the press.  I suspect we are about to witness one of history's great collective shuck-and-jives.  We will throw out countless political bums and hire a who new group of bums.  We will elect people who talk the talk but are not interested in making thing different.  Prime example is Nikki Haley of SC who is poised for a landslide election.  Strong TEA parties support, Palin endorsement, lots of outside money, strong political class opposition, the evidence of political class panic at her election, history of libertarian positions and pronouncements.  In short she has no apparent reason for compromise yet since her nomination she has tripped all over herself running to the center and making eyes with the herd of RINO's called SC's legislature.  Since both SC and AZ have been nominated as "Most Likely to Secede" I figger it would be interesting to see why AZ is intent on returning to office someone of known and questionable political positions.

[AZRedhawk44]

Strong TEA parties support, Palin endorsement, lots of outside money, strong political class opposition, the evidence of political class panic at her election, history of libertarian positions and pronouncements.

This one seems to be very promising to the stoopid publick, and the kiss of death to me and my social group here.

We all think Palin is a Trojan Horse to the Tea Party establishment.  She shucked and jived away a LOT of her platform to run with McCain in 2008, and now it's back.  But she still endorses McCain (and McCain's mini-me, Scott Brown over in MA).  Even though both of them support Amnesty.

The Republican Elite that court the Tea Party are co-opting the Tea Party in many areas, endorsing RINO's in places where real change has a chance.

AZ isn't really such a place because we didn't have a conservative-everyman run for McCain's seat. 

Then again, who can fight a 20 million dollar primary election, let alone the general election?  Yep.  $20 million.  That's what McCain has spent, from his Presidential fund.

And our sour "also ran" candidate is only behind by maybe 4-5 percent.  With less than a tenth of that for funding.

That's how much we don't like him.

McCain is quite literally buying this election.

[BReilley]

Hayworth hasn't helped himself much, here.  McCain's lead is by default, there isn't an opposition candidate worth voting for.

Indeed.  It's like choosing between Obama and McCain, all over again.

This one seems to be very promising to the stoopid publick, and the kiss of death to me and my social group here.

We all think Palin is a Trojan Horse to the Tea Party establishment.  She shucked and jived away a LOT of her platform to run with McCain in 2008, and now it's back.  But she still endorses McCain (and McCain's mini-me, Scott Brown over in MA).  Even though both of them support Amnesty.

The Republican Elite that court the Tea Party are co-opting the Tea Party in many areas, endorsing RINO's in places where real change has a chance.

AZ isn't really such a place because we didn't have a conservative-everyman run for McCain's seat. 

Then again, who can fight a 20 million dollar primary election, let alone the general election?  Yep.  $20 million.  That's what McCain has spent, from his Presidential fund.

And our sour "also ran" candidate is only behind by maybe 4-5 percent.  With less than a tenth of that for funding.

That's how much we don't like him.

McCain is quite literally buying this election.

Exactly.  Which leads back to my above statement - the fact that a wishy-washy sack like McCain got as much of the general Presidential vote as he did speaks to the amount of distaste for Obama.  I wonder who the four people are who voted for McCain because they liked his positions, not because he wasn't Obama.

Regarding Palin, I'm very much with Redhawk on the Trojan-horse idea.  I felt that way immediately after the election, as I listened to Palin excuse the McCain campaign's ineptitude and voice her support for her former running mate.  If she believed a word she'd ever said about liberty and the value of the Constitution, she'd have been doing her damnedest to free herself of his baggage.

[Waitone]

I cite Palin because she is the perceived standard conservative intentions.  I don't buy it.  My antenna went up full mast when, after McCain tapped her, the first stop on the vetting tour was H Kissinger.  He said he could work well with her.  That told me she was perfectly acceptable to the northeastern republican tribe.  To me it was a matter of time before her true allegiances appeared.  I've deemed her the means of co-opting at a national level the TEA movement.  Nothing I've seen since she was tapped has changed my view.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Anyone who's going to implement any conservative policies in DC is going to have to be able to work with the RINOs and northeasterners.  The essence of politics is that one must be able to cooperate with others.  Nobody can do this completely on their own.

There are too many people on our side who think the best strategy is to damn the torpedoes and try to ram policy through.  That doesn't work.  Look at Obama.  Even with his supermajorities, he lost major portions of his policy agenda.  He solidified the opposition party and lost key support within his own party.

If anyone is going to succeed at implementing the policies we want, it's going to be someone who, like Pailin, can unite the disparate parts of the right wing.  Like it or not, that includes the establishment.  The McCains and the notherasterners have power, and we're going to have to accept that reality and work within it.

[AZRedhawk44]

Anyone who's going to implement any conservative policies in DC is going to have to be able to work with the RINOs and northeasterners.  The essence of politics is that one must be able to cooperate with others.  Nobody can do this completely on their own.

There are too many people on our side who think the best strategy is to damn the torpedoes and try to ram policy through.  That doesn't work.  Look at Obama.  Even with his supermajorities, he lost major portions of his policy agenda.  He solidified the opposition party and lost key support within his own party.

If anyone is going to succeed at implementing the policies we want, it's going to be someone who, like Pailin, can unite the disparate parts of the right wing.  Like it or not, that includes the establishment.  The McCains and the notherasterners have power, and we're going to have to accept that reality and work within it.

This kind of talk is for AFTER elections.

Elections are for getting rid of the McCains and Northeasterners and RINO's.

Please save the rest of this line of thought for Wednesday.  It's going to be rammed down my throat anyways, but I don't have to take it until the votes are actually counted.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

This kind of talk is for AFTER elections.

Elections are for getting rid of the McCains and Northeasterners and RINO's.

Please save the rest of this line of thought for Wednesday.  It's going to be rammed down my throat anyways, but I don't have to take it until the votes are actually counted.

I was addressing the "Palin is going to sabotage conservatives" nonsense.

As for this election, the die was cast when the anti-McCain opposition chose Hayworth as their standard bearer.  A flawed but poweful politician is still powerful.  You can't beat one like him with an equally flawed weak candidate.

[BReilley]

Anyone who's going to implement any conservative policies in DC is going to have to be able to work with the RINOs and northeasterners.  The essence of politics is that one must be able to cooperate with others.  Nobody can do this completely on their own.

There are too many people on our side who think the best strategy is to damn the torpedoes and try to ram policy through.  That doesn't work.  Look at Obama.  Even with his supermajorities, he lost major portions of his policy agenda.  He solidified the opposition party and lost key support within his own party.

If anyone is going to succeed at implementing the policies we want, it's going to be someone who, like Pailin, can unite the disparate parts of the right wing.  Like it or not, that includes the establishment.  The McCains and the notherasterners have power, and we're going to have to accept that reality and work within it.

With respect, the kind of policies I would like to see implemented in DC could be accomplished pretty effectively by a solid bunch of reliable "nay" votes.  A few more "nay"s on healthcare, on banking reform as it was presented, on stimulus/spending packages, would have gone a LOOOONG way this past year.

I understand the point you make - and it's valid - but cooperating with RINOs and liberals is one reason for the situation we're in now.  It's possible for a few wrong-headed but strong-willed individuals to herd enough "yea"s out of the masses through trading, threats, etc., and it's possible to pass gargantuan bills without reading them, indeed without knowing their full contents.  This kind of trend WILL get us some form of cap-and-trade, and it will probably allow the Bush tax cuts to expire.

The other side decided that the time for cooperation had passed.  I tend to agree.

[MechAg94]

BUT, nay votes are not going to get rid of or fix the bad legislation that is already on the books.  All that does it keep new stuff from getting implemented.  

IMO, there is enough common ground with RINOs and McCain types to get a whole lot of positive stuff done.  That includes a hell of a lot more than you can expect to actually get done in the next 2, 4, or 6 years.  You still need to hold on to those core values, but you have to know when it is smart to take small steps toward your goal instead of trying for the home run every time. 

[HankB]

BUT, nay votes are not going to get rid of or fix the bad legislation that is already on the books.  All that does it keep new stuff from getting implemented.  

IMO, there is enough common ground with RINOs and McCain types to get a whole lot of positive stuff done.

What I hope is that the new GOP majority in the House defunds a lot of programs. They may remain on the books, but with no funding, won't be implemented.

Expect BHO to veto budgets that don't give him what he wants, just like Clinton did, and to claim the GOP "shut down" the government again.

I hope the GOP then goes on the attack (instead of rolling over like they did under Clinton) and takes every opportunity to point the finger at Obama for "holding the Nation hostage to his irresponsible and downright un-American programs." And to trumpet the call "So BHO shut the government down. DO YOU REALLY MISS ANYTHING???"  (Thinking back, the ONLY way I knew that fed.gov was "shut down" was by evening news stories and newspaper headlines.)