Author Topic: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?  (Read 7889 times)

roo_ster

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Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« on: September 05, 2010, 11:55:16 PM »
This was the question posted to the usual stacked panel, after a lesbian couple sought to send the child they care for to a school affiliated with a local Anglican Church.  And by "stacked" I mean the usual 4:1 or so lefty to righty split.  But, this panel included a far-lefty Episcopal gal who has a lawsuit ongoing against the church. 

Note, I did not write "Episcopal" church, but "Anglican."  That is because this church & school has disaffiliated itself from the Episcopal Church in the US due to the Episcopal Church's decades-long slide from orthodoxy (as the Anglicans see it and relative to broader small-"o" Christian orthodoxy).  Matter of fact, the entire Fort Worth diocese voted 80% to 20% to kick the Episcopal church to the curb and hook up with the more-orthodox Anglican Church in North America.  Their path to the Archbishop of Canterbury goes through the Prelates in one of the African countries of Nigeria, Rawanda, or another I forget.

I brought all that ^^^ up to illustrate that this is not your run-of-the-mill dead-gospel mainline denomination churches desperately trying to keep up with contemporary leftist / liberal theology.

Of course, immediately after the decision, the couple went to the news media.

The question was chewed over by the panelists and opened up to the newspaper's general blog.

General DMN Blog
http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/09/should-a-religi.html

Panel Tilted 45deg to Port
http://religionblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/08/texas-faith-should-a-religious.html

School in Question:
http://www.sves.org/aboutus.html

ACNA:
http://www.anglicanchurch.net/?/main/page/about#history

One of the pithier comments, foundon the general blog, was, "If the Catholic [sic] schools refuse to enroll their child, perhaps they should try a madrassa - I hear Islam is exceptionally tolerant."

As for my position, it is a private school.  There is no right to attend one.  End of story, no need to explicate.
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roo_ster

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 12:14:53 AM »
Every religious school is going to handle that differently, won't they?  Some will require that the parents share some set of beliefs or a certain church affiliation.  Some will not.

Obviously, homosexual is the new black, so...
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Gowen

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 12:31:01 AM »
I for one would love to see the churches dump their 501c(3) shackles.  Then they can get back into politics, tell .gov to stick it and speak their minds again.  

No the church doesn't have to take a child of a homosexual couple, but they can if they want to.  I would give a disclaimer that they teach the whole Bible in this church, i.e. Lev. 20:13, Rom. 1:26-27.  I personally think this is a "set up," and the homosexual couple intend to sue, no matter how this turns out.  Either they sue over not being able to send their child in there or a discrimination "gay bashing" suit after the child attends.  Win/win in their book.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 12:42:15 AM »
I for one would love to see the churches dump their 501c(3) shackles.  Then they can get back into politics, tell .gov to stick it and speak their minds again. 

Is that even in play here?

As I understand it, 501c(3) status prevents churches from campaigning for or against specific candidates or parties, but they are free to express political opinions or lobby their representatives.  Unless, of course, they start spending more on politics than piety.

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 12:54:27 AM by Fistful »
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Northwoods

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 12:57:44 AM »
Having looked into a Christian school or three they pretty much univerally require the parents to sign a statement of faith.  If you won't sign it, your kid cannot attend that school.  And if you sign it, but openly live in contradiction to that statement, the kid can be expelled.

As a parent you know all of that going in.  It's a private school which is under no obligation to educate anyone in particular.  Far as I'm concerned it's tough titties for those "parents".  

Now, there are some schools that don't require that statmenet of faith.  There's a 7th Day Adventist school close to my home.  I don't know what they require, but they do not require that you be an Adventist to go there (there's nowhere near enough Adventists in the area to populate the school, so that's more of a survival technique than anything else).  
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taurusowner

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2010, 01:04:24 AM »
Yes, the school should reject that child.  I went to public schools for 1-5 grade, and a religious school for 6-8, and then back to public schools for high school.  Religious teachings and a religious family atmosphere are a big part of many religious schools.  The whole idea is not just to teach them how to read and write (though religious schools often do this far better than government schools), but to also put them in an environment that affirms and strengthens their faith and the faith of the family they were raised in.  The school I went to in particular was fairly small, maybe 400 kids in grades 1-8 (though I only went 6-8).  It was pretty special too.  It was a joint collaboration between a local Catholic church and a local Protestant church (part of the Vineyard).  Many of the families of the churches sent their kids to this school, coached teams, tutored students, etc.  There were many get togethers between the churches where one would see schoolmates from the other church and so forth.  I even went to a summer camp and later was a counselor at that same camp that was run through this school.

Now this is all important because it highlights how much family life, formal education, and religious studies are all tied together in many religious schools.  A child with two homosexual guardians would be receiving drastically conflicting ideals from home and from school.  It is unlikely the homosexual couple would participate in either participate in the church the school operates though, or share many of the same beliefs that most religious school teachers and clergy, and parents share.  The conflict would go both ways.  Not only would it be very confusing for the single child to have such contrasting views from different areas of their life, but other school children would also be subjected to those issues, perhaps before their parents are willing to tell them about those things.

One of the big reasons people send their children to religious schools is because they strongly disagree with the type of cultural atmosphere most public school have.  If a parent does not want their child to be taught at school that homosexuality is OK, that is their right.  And they have the right to send their child to a school that affirms these beliefs.  Many modern religious schools exist with separating children from what many religious parents see as cultural rot, as one of their primary goals.  Forcing a school to admit students whose guardians play a large role in that very same cultural rot would undermine one of the purposes of religious school, and the choices and beliefs of the other parents.

Edit:  After reading the article, I am inclined to think that the two homosexuals in questions chose this school not as a realistic school choice, but with the primary purpose of either intimidating the school to backtrack on their beliefs, or to just make a general media spectacle of Christian schools.  I think that they were motivated by radical politics far more than actual concern for the education of the child.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 01:25:51 AM by Ragnar Danneskjold »

MicroBalrog

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2010, 01:17:54 AM »
Every religious school is going to handle that differently, won't they?  Some will require that the parents share some set of beliefs or a certain church affiliation.  Some will not.


This.
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Strings

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2010, 01:40:47 AM »
Wow... count this Pagan among those who feel the school has every right to decline enrollment to the student.

And I'd bet this WAS a set-up. Which pisses me off: a child shouldn't be turned into a political pawn...
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2010, 02:00:31 AM »
Why would anybody want their child in a school that teaches that their family's entire existence is a sin?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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RevDisk

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2010, 02:09:23 AM »
Why would anybody want their child in a school that teaches that their family's entire existence is a sin?

Morons or people wary of the public education system.

Personally, I believe private organizations should be free to discriminate as they feel.  If you don't want to cater to left handed redheads, that should be your business.  Government should obviously never be allowed to do so, obviously.  I've never been sure of which part of the Constitution allows the government to forbid denying service in private transactions.
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Gowen

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2010, 02:49:46 AM »
Is that even in play here?

As I understand it, 501c(3) status prevents churches from campaigning for or against specific candidates or parties, but they are free to express political opinions or lobby their representatives.  Unless, of course, they start spending more on politics than piety.

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html

In essence, yes.  When you hold .gov's hand, you take on all of .gov's restrictions, beliefs and bias.  The government will use it's power to bend you to do it's bidding,  even if they have to audit you, inspect you, investigate you or suddenly have claims of child abuse  you will do as you are told.
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stevelyn

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2010, 02:53:28 AM »
Wow... count this Pagan among those who feel the school has every right to decline enrollment to the student.

And I'd bet this WAS a set-up. Which pisses me off: a child shouldn't be turned into a political pawn...

Count me as a godless heathen that agrees with you.  =D
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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2010, 05:43:22 AM »
I have GOT to quit skimming.  I read this:

Quote
Many of the families of the churches sent their kids to this school, coached teams, tutored students, etc.

as:

"Many of the families of the churches sent their kids to this school, coached teams, tortured students, etc."  :facepalm:

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2010, 06:15:32 AM »
Should a religious school reject a child of divorced parents?

Ultimately they can do whatever they want, but I do think it's silly. 
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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2010, 06:27:01 AM »
i think someone covered it well  why send a kid where he will be taught that his/her home environment is a sin?   isn't there a episcopal "adam and steve" church school in town?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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lupinus

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2010, 06:49:10 AM »
Should a religious school reject a child of divorced parents?

Ultimately they can do whatever they want, but I do think it's silly. 

Depends on the circumstances of the divorce, I would imagine.

But yes, the school has and should have the right to refuse the child of parents who are deemed to off from doctrine.  Sounds like a set up or excuse to sue in the first place.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2010, 06:59:43 AM »
i think someone covered it well  why send a kid where he will be taught that his/her home environment is a sin?   isn't there a episcopal "adam and steve" church school in town?

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41magsnub

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2010, 11:41:48 AM »
I have GOT to quit skimming.  I read this:

as:

"Many of the families of the churches sent their kids to this school, coached teams, tortured students, etc."  :facepalm:

DD

That's only the Catholics maybe :) ..  my Mom and her siblings have a number of stories from their time at the Catholic schools around Missoula in the 50's and 60's.  It may not be typical, but it sure put them off religion for good.  The education part was fine, but a couple of the nuns were friggin insane.

Back OT, the school should be able to accept or reject whomever applies to them just like any private entity.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 11:45:02 AM by 41magsnub »

Northwoods

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2010, 12:11:16 PM »
Should a religious school reject a child of divorced parents?

Ultimately they can do whatever they want, but I do think it's silly. 


There are acceptable reasons for divorce, even to hard core fundies.  Marital unfaithfullness (e.g. sexual immorality) being the one that was mentioned by Jesus.  Other, perhaps less fundie types, will also consider substance abuse, phyiscal abuse, etc as acceptable reasons.  Therefore, without a school delving into the reasons for the divorce (which they may or may not) it would be hard to deny the kid admission on that basis.  Also considering parent with primary custody is often the "victim" of the unfaithfullness, etc it would pretty aweful to deny a kid admission to a school becuase their non-primary-custodial parent had mis-behaved.  Plus, with 40-50% of marriages ending in divorce, even in Evangelical couples, that would really cut down on the tuition basis.

I'd have to say that rather than divorce, a more appropriate heterosexual comparison would be couples in an "open marriage", or swingers.  Or single parents that are openly and unapologetically sexually active, whether monogamous or not.  Or an active prostitute.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2010, 01:08:38 PM »
http://www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com/articles/mark/mark_10.html


thank you for making me look and learn something
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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seeker_two

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2010, 02:51:34 PM »
I'm kinda torn on this one....

....on one hand, why would an openly gay couple want their child educated in a school that teaches that homosexuality is a sin and that heterosexuality is God's will?  Sounds like a set-up to me....

...on the other hand, if this is a private, non-gov't funded school, why should they be prohibited from choosing who they do and do not service...esp. if the choice is based on religious beliefs....

...still on the other hand, maybe the school should accept this child in order to minister to him about spiritual matters and moral behavior...which would include homosexuality as a sin and heterosexuality as God's will....parents may be a loss, but the kid should have a chance....and Christians are supposed to love the sinner yet hate the sin...


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Perd Hapley

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2010, 03:11:59 PM »
why should they be prohibited from choosing who they do and do not service

I, for one, do not wish to service homosexuals.
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seeker_two

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2010, 03:27:19 PM »
I, for one, do not wish to service homosexuals.

Mabs will be heartbroken....  :'(
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Strings

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2010, 03:57:54 PM »
>I, for one, do not wish to service homosexuals. <

I don't know about that... I heard about those vids of you... >:D
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taurusowner

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Re: Should a religious school reject the child of gay parents?
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2010, 04:03:17 PM »
Quote
...still on the other hand, maybe the school should accept this child in order to minister to him about spiritual matters and moral behavior...which would include homosexuality as a sin and heterosexuality as God's will....parents may be a loss, but the kid should have a chance....and Christians are supposed to love the sinner yet hate the sin...

That's the best reason I've heard in favor of the school letting the child enroll.  The question is, do you really think the two "parents" in question would really let the school try to teach the child that their behavior is wrong?  If they're willing to cry afoul to the media over enrollment, do you think they would let it slide if a teacher taught about the passages in the Bible that call homosexuality a sin?