Author Topic: How old are you/technologically savvy?  (Read 25773 times)

Ron

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2010, 09:15:15 PM »
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I think texting is time-inefficient and inherently dishonest (or at least a means to dodge a true conversation) and so I refuse to use it as a communication method.

well said, at least in regards to chronic text'rs
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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2010, 09:16:48 PM »
But that's kinda what you're implying with your very first post regarding the generalization that older people are unable to adapt to technology. Facebook, texting, et al are a product of technology. Using them or not using them has nothing to do with understanding the technology that creates them.

Indeed.  I've heard a number of octogenarians say they can't master computers, but from a guy who fought in the Pacific or a guy who survived being shot down--twice--and continued to fly, I kind of assume that means that mastering computers doesn't pass their cost/benefit analysis.  And I agree with Fisty's mom--it is definitely easier for her to edit a doc with a typewriter than with a computer.

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2010, 10:01:26 PM »
22. I am moderatly tech savvy (people my age and younger have a better grasp of the current tech, though). My tech knowledge is stuck mostly with older computers and such, because that's what we generally have. Wireless was something I had to learn about when I got my "new" computer in '06. Bluetooth and newer stuff is out of my knowledge area. Hell, I didn't get my first MP3 player till this week.

I actually prefer to communicate by text or email. However, I refuse to use anything other than proper grammar and I don't like texting from phones (I just can't do it, I do like the yahoo email to text interface) What I specifically like about texting is that I can receive the message instantly, read it when I want without waiting to hear a voicemail or try to catch the other person when they aren't busy. It gives me something to do when I'm bored/sitting somewhere and don't have anything else to do. If I need to have voice contact, or if the person I am talking with doesn't do texting, I will call them no problem.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 10:08:55 PM by Avenger29 »
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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2010, 10:02:54 PM »
the txt garbage has one very useful thing going for it. grocery lists are still on the phone when you go to buy the stuff, and you don't waste work time to get it. and they can be sent when your cell can't connect long enough for a call.

Lee

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2010, 10:13:54 PM »
I'm 54.  I think there is a point where technology serves us, and another where we serve technology.  As a daily user (and victim) of technology, I think we are rapidly approaching the latter.  And yes, I do get mad as hell.  I spend more time at work learning to navigate the latest and greatest software then I spend doing the job I used to do. And it's not just us older folks.  What used to take months to bring a new hire up-to-speed might take a year or more in the near future, due to 50% of their time being spent learning (and getting access to) the right systems.  Essentially, all of these programs have been set up to benefit corporate by eliminating hourly clerical assistants and data entry people, and spreading that work across the salaried folks in the company....regardless if they are professionals who are paid six figures to enter data, put in requests for anything, or simply to find a phone number....while NOT doing what they were hired to do.  Doesn't make sense to me...but who am I.  Our first level "local" support is 1000 miles from here, and they are little better than the first level of support anywhere else.  If you really have a problem, you have to wait for a site person, and that could be days. I used to be able to walk down the hall and pull a folder from a very well organized file cabinet that a full time person maintained.  I can spend a half a day now (or more) simply trying to find a single piece of information stored online ...somewhere, in one of our numerous cleverly named databases...assuming I have access to it.  Apparently, the software people are very persuasive in their sales approach, or the money is flowing into someones bonus check before they move on.  
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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2010, 10:58:36 PM »
Allow me to offer another example of age and technology. As I've mentioned before, my father got into computers back in the very beginning, and worked for GM as a computer engineer for most of his career. He retired at 65, but stayed on as a consultant for another three. He was a genius.

Sometime in the 1990's he got a PC. My brother had to show him how to work a mouse, and my dad had a hard time with that. A week later my brother stopped by, and my dad said, "I figured out what Bill Gates did." He'd figured out how Windows worked, right down to the nuts and bolts level. He started his own websites, and a bunch of other things.

This was when he was in his eighties. Technology isn't just for the young.

Perd Hapley

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2010, 11:46:18 PM »
I think this is less about age and more about environment.

Yes. And upbringing. And one's interests. And one's career path. And one's income level. 

As for the latter, I'm sure I'd know a lot more about tweeting, if I could afford a laptop or smartphone.  And I'd know more about mp3 players if I had one. 


And I agree with Fisty's mom--it is definitely easier for her to edit a doc with a typewriter than with a computer.

How is that so? (And for the record, I'm not even sure if my mom has ever typed.  ??? )
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 12:13:05 AM by Fistful »
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taurusowner

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2010, 11:56:11 PM »
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I actually prefer to communicate by text or email. However, I refuse to use anything other than proper grammar and I don't like texting from phones (I just can't do it, I do like the yahoo email to text interface) What I specifically like about texting is that I can receive the message instantly, read it when I want without waiting to hear a voicemail or try to catch the other person when they aren't busy. It gives me something to do when I'm bored/sitting somewhere and don't have anything else to do. If I need to have voice contact, or if the person I am talking with doesn't do texting, I will call them no problem.

Voice calls and texting both have their uses.  When one needs to actually discuss a topic in depth, it's hard to do over text.  But that's somewhat rare for me.  Most of my communication is along the lines of "Meet me at place X at 2130 tonight" "Email me the 1.4 version of that file" "What was the name of that song?" "What are you doing later?"  "When is the next drill date".  

Basically requests either to me or from me for specific information.  No need to talk about it at length, just get the info where it needs to go.  It also gives on a written record of stuff.  Like the text I have at the top of my list now "staff meeting after rehearsal saturday night at Lukes".  Now I don't need to write it down, or remember when or where.  Texting is great for addresses, specific numbers or names, and other stuff that can get screwed up when you're trying to tell someone over the phone.  It's also very time-insensitive.  Someone can text me while I'm in class, and I can read the text and respond an hour later.  Maybe they're busy and can't be on their phone right now.  No problem, they can respond back when they're able.  Not so with phone calls.  Phone calls require both parties to be free for an extended period of time right at the moment.  That can be a big problem when various people are in class, at drill, sleeping, at work, even on the phone with someone else.  With both texting and voice, you can be on the phone with one person, ask them some info, text it to someone else while you're still on the phone, and now all three of you have it instead of trying to play phone tag.  Batch texting is also very convenient.  I can just write "new drill report time, 020700OCT10, let me know you got this" to everyone in my team.  No confusion, no multiple calls trying to get a hold of a bunch of different people, no "I couldn't hear you very well on the phone, I thought you said 0730".  Simple, fast, efficient, low confusion, durable.  Hell, even my school has automate text-lists for canceled class, or whatnot.  Come home from work, go to bed.  Get a text in the morning "CJT321 on 10-28-10 at 330pm is canceled".  Read it when I wake up, and adjust accordingly; instead of driving to school to find out there's no class.

All of these things are pretty much impossible with voice phone calls.  With email, you have to get on a computer and check to get the same info (unless you get email on your smart-phone).  I'm study groups with people of various ages.  I teach indoor percussion, and have to coordinate things with the parent support group.  I'm in the National Guard and have to get info from my higher ups and relay it to my soldiers.  When communicating and scheduling over text with smart-phones, it's all easy, streamlined, and can be done anytime anywhere.  I work nights so being time-flexible with my communication is very important to me.  It really grinds on me to get woken up at noon by a phone call while I'm sleeping after a night of work because the person calling doesn't know how to text, doesn't know how to access the facebook page for the event or group, or doesn't know how to check their email.  I'll send the parent group email copies of the rehearsal schedule for my drumline so they can come to shows and stuff.  Half of them give me an email address and never check it.  And then complain when they have no idea what's going on.  Dealing with people who simply refuse to embrace things that make everything easier really just get to me.  It's one thing if they can do their thing, I can do mine, and so be it.  But when I have to make all sorts of adjustments, get woken up in while I'm sleeping, make 5 or 6 phone calls to one person just to relay 10 seconds of info, print of 15 copies of a schedule for the people who think a computer shouldn't be smaller than a room, it really makes me wonder why these otherwise fully functional and intelligent adults cannot simply learn a new skill or two.

taurusowner

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #58 on: October 01, 2010, 12:00:51 AM »
RoadKing, maybe one day I'll figure it out too.  Though snark does little to address real topics of discussion...
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 12:05:42 AM by Ragnar Danneskjold »

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #59 on: October 01, 2010, 12:04:22 AM »
Voice calls and texting both have their uses.  When one needs to actually discuss a topic in depth, it's hard to do over text.  But that's somewhat rare for me.  Most of my communication is along the lines of "Meet me at place X at 2130 tonight" "Email me the 1.4 version of that file" "What was the name of that song?" "What are you doing later?"  "When is the next drill date".  

Basically requests either to me or from me for specific information.  No need to talk about it at length, just get the info where it needs to go.  It also gives on a written record of stuff.  Like the text I have at the top of my list now "staff meeting after rehearsal saturday night at Lukes".  Now I don't need to write it down, or remember when or where.  Texting is great for addresses, specific numbers or names, and other stuff that can get screwed up when you're trying to tell someone over the phone.  It's also very time-insensitive.  Someone can text me while I'm in class, and I can read the text and respond an hour later.  Maybe they're busy and can't be on their phone right now.  No problem, they can respond back when they're able.  Not so with phone calls.  Phone calls require both parties to be free for an extended period of time right at the moment.  That can be a big problem when various people are in class, at drill, sleeping, at work, even on the phone with someone else.  With both texting and voice, you can be on the phone with one person, ask them some info, text it to someone else while you're still on the phone, and now all three of you have it instead of trying to play phone tag.  Batch texting is also very convenient.  I can just write "new drill report time, 020700OCT10, let me know you got this" to everyone in my team.  No confusion, no multiple calls trying to get a hold of a bunch of different people, no "I couldn't hear you very well on the phone, I thought you said 0730".  Simple, fast, efficient, low confusion, durable.  Hell, even my school has automate text-lists for canceled class, or whatnot.  Come home from work, go to bed.  Get a text in the morning "CJT321 on 10-28-10 at 330pm is canceled".  Read it when I wake up, and adjust accordingly; instead of driving to school to find out there's no class.

All of these things are pretty much impossible with voice phone calls.  With email, you have to get on a computer and check to get the same info (unless you get email on your smart-phone).  I'm study groups with people of various ages.  I teach indoor percussion, and have to coordinate things with the parent support group.  I'm in the National Guard and have to get info from my higher ups and relay it to my soldiers.  When communicating and scheduling over text with smart-phones, it's all easy, streamlined, and can be done anytime anywhere.  I work nights so being time-flexible with my communication is very important to me.  It really grinds on me to get woken up at noon by a phone call while I'm sleeping after a night of work because the person calling doesn't know how to text, doesn't know how to access the facebook page for the event or group, or doesn't know how to check their email.  I'll send the parent group email copies of the rehearsal schedule for my drumline so they can come to shows and stuff.  Half of them give me an email address and never check it.  And then complain when they have no idea what's going on.  Dealing with people who simply refuse to embrace things that make everything easier really just get to me.  It's one thing if they can do their thing, I can do mine, and so be it.  But when I have to make all sorts of adjustments, get woken up in while I'm sleeping, make 5 or 6 phone calls to one person just to relay 10 seconds of info, print of 15 copies of a schedule for the people who think a computer shouldn't be smaller than a room, it really makes me wonder why these otherwise fully functional and intelligent adults cannot simply learn a new skill or two.

Someday I'll figure out this message boards stuff.
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BridgeRunner

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2010, 12:11:12 AM »
How is that so?  (And for the record, I'm not even sure if my mom has ever typed.  ??? )

Well, gee, that puts a different spin on things.  

But, a typewriter, especially a manual or a lower-tech electric, is a lot simpler than a computer.  To type a document using MS Word, one must acquire a computer.  One must learn the basics of using the OS.  One must purchase, install, register, and learn the basics of using MS Word.  Then one needs a printer.  And a cable.  And install the printer, which should be really easy, except that it will likely have been packaged with various software packages which the user will probably, if she follows the instructions included with the printer, install.  And register and learn the basics of.  And install the ink/toner cartridges.  

Of course, once the kids/grandkids have gotten wind of the computer purchase, they'll be clamoring for ma/grandma to get it online and get an email address, so there are those potential complications, but I'll leave that alone for now.

To type a document on a typewriter, one must acquire the typewriter.  If it's a manual, one must then install a ribbon, insert the paper, and type.  

To edit, grab a pen, make some changes, and retype.  If there are errors, either retype or grab some white-out and learn to use it.

Starting from a position of no background or experience with business machines at all, typing and editing one document is a LOT easier with a typewriter.  Typing and editing fifty documents is a LOT easier with MS Word or similar.  

Incidentally, if my thought/writing process hadn't become adapted to using cut/paste and I could afford to do so, I would handwrite the majority of my written work and have an assistant handle the document production aspects of the project.  This isn't because I an afraid of computers, but because I find writing by hand to be one of the most sensually pleasing acts I have ever experienced.  I have adapted my thought process to cut/paste and other tools, so I don't handwrite as much as I would like, but if I hadn't spent the past decade compelled to use computers for document creation on a regular basis and therefore adapted to it, I can't imagine that it would be my first choice of medium for composition.  

But then I found writing the bar exam to be one of the more enjoyable experience of my life, in substantial part because it involved a nice pen, nice paper, a lot of stuff to write, and seven hours in which I had nothing to do but put pen to paper.  I've accepted that I'm a little strange in this regard.  

Perd Hapley

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2010, 12:16:40 AM »
I was referring to the ease of hitting Delete versus using mylar strips or white out. Not to mention cut/copy/paste, switching whole documents from single to double space, automatic footnoting, etc, etc.  So I'm talking about the editing itself. I would count setting up the hardware/software as a different matter.

I also enjoy writing by hand, especially since I switched to a roller ball. It's a pretty good way to jot down thoughts as they pop up in the ole noggin.  Of course, the arranging, rethinking and revising is much easier with a text editor.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 12:22:24 AM by Fistful »
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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #62 on: October 01, 2010, 12:37:56 AM »
24, above average... though I'm guessing average is a bit low. Can work on cars, computers, do programming, basic carpentry, etc (jerk of all trades). Use Facebook, texting, smart phone. Facebook is a fantastic tool for data mining on people you know. Which is why about 50% of my profile information is false - all true and they know everything, all false and they know what you're not. Split it down the middle and they are completely lost.

BridgeRunner

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #63 on: October 01, 2010, 12:38:37 AM »
I was referring to the ease of hitting Delete versus using mylar strips or white out. Not to mention cut/copy/paste, switching whole documents from single to double space, automatic footnoting, etc, etc.  So I'm talking about the editing itself. I would count setting up the hardware/software as a different matter.

Well, yeah.  But that's where Ragnar's hypothesis is disproven.  For anyone on this thread, the hardware/software setup is irrevelant, and a wholly different matter.  For someone who has lived a life without computers and needs to edit a document, alternatives and the whole harware/software setup/maintenance are going to be a part of the equation, no?

Quote
I also enjoy writing by hand, especially since I switched to a roller ball. It's a pretty good way to jot down thoughts as they pop up in the ole noggin.  Of course, the arranging, rethinking and revising is much easier with a text editor.

Try a fountain pen.  Even the Varsity disposables are ok.  

I miss my Pelikan.   :'(   The hazard in carrying a $90 pen.  Can't exactly just run out and replace it when it gets lost or broken.

Perd Hapley

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #64 on: October 01, 2010, 12:48:24 AM »
Well, yeah.  But that's where Ragnar's hypothesis is disproven.  For anyone on this thread, the hardware/software setup is irrevelant, and a wholly different matter.  For someone who has lived a life without computers and needs to edit a document, alternatives and the whole harware/software setup/maintenance are going to be a part of the equation, no?

If the end user is doing the set-up and system maintenance, you're right.

Of course, that is very often not the case. I was talking about a specific conversation I had with my Mom, which was just about how much easier it is to edit. We weren't talking about the whole process of typing, proofreading, editing, printing, etc, much less setting up the machine and the software.

But again, I see your point, if you're taking into account the whole process from taking the computer out of the box.
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taurusowner

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #65 on: October 01, 2010, 01:01:36 AM »
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Well, yeah.  But that's where Ragnar's hypothesis is disproven.  For anyone on this thread, the hardware/software setup is irrevelant, and a wholly different matter.  For someone who has lived a life without computers and needs to edit a document, alternatives and the whole harware/software setup/maintenance are going to be a part of the equation, no?

But even many who have the will to learn something, don't seem to be able.  My own parents went out and bough relatively simple cell phones, and yet were totally unable to learn how to even add people to the contacts list.  They're not stupid.  I really don't see why, if one has the will to do so, one can't buy the device of choice, read the directions, and then know how to use it.  My mom has had a cell phone for over a year and doesn't know how to check voice mail, despite being told how about 40 times. There's just something about new tech that seems to be so foreboding and so alien that they can't wrap their minds around just learning how to use it.  I know they weren't like that in the 60's.  They learned how to use TVs, they learned how to use a record player and later a VCR.  But at some point their mind set up a roadblock and said "I can't learn anymore".  Why?  It's not like they're senile.  My mom is a physical therapist and my dad is a former firefighter and current math teach/nurse.  They both work full time at fairly advanced jobs and do well.  How is something as simple as a cell phone or a cable box able to totally stump them?

Perd Hapley

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #66 on: October 01, 2010, 01:12:46 AM »
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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2010, 01:17:08 AM »
There's a similarity between many tech devices that makes learning the second or third device easier once the first is mastered. Certain steps are the same or, at the very least, there's a pattern that's similar.

It's like learning how to drive a semi after learning how to drive a car. It's a lot easier if you're really familiar with driving a car. Learning to drive a semi with no prior driving experience would be a nightmare.

There's also a lot more features---and many unnecessary features, IMO--on today's electronics that makes learning to use them more difficult, especially for those who only recently learned to "drive" them.

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2010, 01:27:38 AM »
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and I have real conversations with girlfriends rather than idiotic truncated binary exchanges.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2010, 01:53:18 AM »
I'm not convinced that editing a document with a word processing program is easier than editing a document with a typewriter.

You aren't old enough to know. m'dear.

My first job after grad school was for a very small company. When I was hired, it was the owner, a secretary/receptionist/bookkeeper, myself and one other guy doing the same work I was doing. We got as big as me and six others, shrank down to just me ... and then I got laid off, too. But ...

While I was there, we were well before the advent of personal computers and small computers in small offices. The secretary typed letters on a typewriter. I drafted a letter to a major client one day, and it came back to me with multiple (and I do mean "multiple") typos of all sorts. So I asked her to fix the errors. The same piece of paper came back a few minutes later ... with about 5 gallons of White-Out smeared all over it, and ugly typing smeared into the white out. I suggested to Madam that the result was rather unsightly and would not convey a very professional image of us to our (major) client. Her response was, "You mean you want me type it OVER?"

Fast forward about five years. Now I'm in a public agency, and we are HIGH TECH. IBM Memory Writers are the name of the game. For you youngsters who have never seen or even heard of an IMB Memory Writer, it was essentially an IMB Selectric typewriter (the ones with the round ball type elements) that had a small memory module that stored what you typed, and could spit out another copy of a letter if you needed one. It also allowed you to correct errors without having to retype the entire document, then print a fresh (corrected) copy. My secretary was a lovely gal, a great mother to her kids, and one of the kindest people you could ever hope to meet. But dammit, Jim, if she didn't figure out how to "correct" a letter in an IBM Memory Writer and give you back a new copy that had more (and different!) errors than the first draft. I gave up. There was a union, of course, so I couldn't not let her type my letters.  So she typed them, I left them in my inbox for signature, then after she had left for the day I retyped them on a Selectric, signed them, and sent them off before she could wise up to it.

Trust me - editing with a word processor is easier than with a typewriter.
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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2010, 02:07:19 AM »
... they are the domain of pre-teen idgits . . . texting is time-inefficient and inherently dishonest . . . I consider text messaging the domain of 12 year old girls . . . I have real conversations with girlfriends rather than idiotic truncated binary exchanges.

If you don't like a new-fangled technology, don't use it. Not using it isn't what makes you look like a cranky get-awfa-mah-lawn luddite to me, it's you insulting those that do find a use for it that does.

I make use of text-messages quite frequently with my wife as we both work full time (and she has random work schedules (ER nurse)), so often text messaging is the only way we can communicate some days. She can't take phone calls in the ER.

But gee, I guess if you have no use for a given technology then only idiots and pre-teens must find it useful.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 02:10:38 AM by Marnoot »

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2010, 03:16:40 AM »
Ok, I seem to be way too involved in this thread.  I guess I've been on a couple different sides of the issue, as I spent a couple years doing sales for CompUSA.  My husband I built a computer for my grandma.  I did the hardware, he did the software.  My aunt, who lives local to her, did the maintenance.  Grandma hated it.  She liked getting emailed pics, but she hated the spam, she hated the malware onslaughts, she hated the constant fiddling with minutiae to figure out tiny little things that had never before been important.  So she got rid of it.

Ian's aunts and uncles bought a computer from him for his grandfather.  Very similar experience.  

Most of the retired elderly people who bought computers from me for personal use were doing so because of pressure from family members.  And many of them then ended up feeling increasingly dependent on their family members for help learning and maintaining the thing.  When one's independence is threatened by health problems or the increasing frailty that can come with aging, the last thing one wants is yet another reason to have to ask for help.  And why bother?  I remember a conversation a while back among a bunch of computer users about the irrelevance of penmanship.  For people who have lived a good long while without computers, it's hard to imagine that a household PC is anything but irrelevant.  

I have had great difficulty setting up cell phones.  Until recently, cell phones were not a major part of my life.  I got one when I started undergrad because I was commuting 40 minutes each way in an old and not terribly reliable vehicle and my parents were nervous.  My mother decided that that meant I would be available whenever she decided to call.  My colleagues called me at random times.  I never once needed to use it for an emergency.  I got a flat once, so I changed it.  I ran out of gas once, so I went to the nearest station and got a gallon of gas.  My muffler hanger broke once, so I rigged it up with some wire and went on my way.  My car overheated once, so I took a look at it, saw that a stray plastic bag has gotten sucked up against the radiator, removed it, and went on my way.  The cell phone was never remotely relevant.  It became quite the irritation.  And I never could figure out how to set it up.  The controls were counterintuitive.  Scrolling through multiple letters per key was irritating.  Remembering the series of menus to get to what one needed was difficult.  It was a constant nagging irritation, trying to figure out this device that I owned for the sake of other people.  Keeping it charged was a constant annoyance.  And every time I had some minor delay, everyone expected me to magically use the cell phone to fix it, instead of y'know, using a jack or a gallon of gas or a bit of wire, or just pulling some debris off my radiator.  Suddenly I was somehow irresponsible for not calling someone else every time my day had a hiccup.  

There is no doubt in my mind that if I really wanted to, I COULD figure out how to use a basic cell phone.  But I never have.  I've made calls and I've even built up a small contacts lists in some of the phones I've had.  But until recently, whenever I had a phone, it was mostly to suit other people, so that my communication mode was convenient for them.  And the format of a basic phone is not simple.  Computers generally require one to be able to readily conceptualize very concrete processes and how to manipulate them using the secret language of matching the right keys--which are frequently not labelled and which, in the case of cell phones--change fucntion constantly.  Basic cell phones require the same sort of skills, only more so.  The whole cable box/programming the VCR/Cable box issue is a similar cognitive challenge.  You can't just do what you want to do, you have to figure out which buttons scroll which way and how to find the right menu to get to the right menu to get to the right menu.  It is not simple.  It may seem simply if you are highly motivated, if you enjoy it, if your minds natively works that way, etc.  If you are not that motivated, if you find dealing with the inherent inefficiencies irritating and intrusive, if your mind doesn't work that way, then, well, yeah, your cell phone might go unprogrammed for months or years.  

Personally, I still harbor a bit of a grudge against the whole cell phone concept.  It's much easier for me to get enthused about a smartphone because I can do stuff with it other than be at people's beck and call or beg for help. It gives me a lot more resources when on the go for overcoming an obstacle.  And I threw out my alarm clock, my paper running log and meds log, and my copies of the bunch of legal texts.  I haven't tossed my maps, because redundancy is good there, but I never use 'em anymore.  And the interface is easier to use.  No menus to scroll through, no guessing games.  It makes sense to me.  

But, it makes sense to me because Apple has me well-trained to how they set up their interfaces.  If I didn't have that background, well, yeah, I still wouldn't have a fully functional cellphone.  I got it together and figured out how to get the most of my smartphone when I had a business plan that required me to do so, and I found a hardware/software solution that made sense.  

I don't know much about cognitive processes or neuropsychology, but I do know that different people learn in different ways.  I learn best by listening to lectures while taking notes, by taking stuff apart and putting it back together, by analogizing concepts to other areas where I have some familiarity, by reading descriptions of processes, thinking of an application in which I am interested, and thinking through how to adapt the process to my project. .  This works well for a lot of things.  I taught myself auto maintenance and repairs, some basic carpentry and repair skills, I learned the law, and I learned ADR processes and I learned a lot of history.  I learned some quantitative analysis and I learned some advanced theoretical biology.  I've learned a lot of comparative theology.  I learned to shoot and I learned some basic reloading.  Like all these allegedly computer-impaired old people, I'm pretty substantially not dumb and I'm no slouch when it comes to learning new things.  BUT, I have never successfully learned a new language and I've never successfully become highly proficient in anything computer related.  

To me, learning software feels like the old joke about flying.  See, if your car stops working, well, there you are.  If your plane stops working, well, there you AIN'T.  The first time I changed my oil, it took almost an hour--figuring out what supplies I needed, figuring out the best way to get to the filter and plug, figuring out that it's a good idea to not drop the plug in the drain pan, y'know, stuff like that.  I knew exactly what I needed to do, I had some basic instructions on how to do it, I had some ideas of how I might need to adapt them to my car, and I could put my hands on all the parts, learn how they felt, feel how tight the filter needs to be, see how it works.  Ditto when I replaced my radiator, a broken door handle, built some shelves, put in a garden, etc.  

But with Excel, for example, I don't know what I'm trying to do, and if I screw it up, I don't know how to get back to where I was.  I end up in a screen that looks different and I don't know how I got there.  I can't see the margins, and that makes it hard to stay within them, and I can't see the steps or even the potential steps, and that makes it hard to follow them.  I guess I'm a visual/kinesthetic learner.  I have to write it out, or fiddle with it, or find some way to categorize it and mentally picture it.  When I think of history or politics or philosophy, I think in shapes, often Venn Diagrams, or timelines, or flowcharts.  I can't seem to see the edges when it comes to computers, and when I do get the shape of what I want to do in my head, I tend to lose track of that shape when I try to impose the keyboard onto it and figure out how to get them to work together.  Maybe if I took some classes and worked hard at it, I could find a way to make it click for me and stop experiencing a constant low-level stress as I end up getting outside my concept of what I'm doing and can't figure out how to use it properly, why I might want or need to, or how it is constructed.  I have only a very shaky concept of how computers work at all.  

It's not that I can't grasp technologies, it's that my intellectual framework was developed in an entirely different framework, and one that was, except for a foray into bio, almost entirely focused on the verbal.  The only "math" class I took in undergrad was Intro to Symbolic Logic.  I probably have had a lot less formal computer training than most people my age, but I've had to learn how to use quite a few bits of technology to get through school and in several different jobs.  On a cultural level, I am very comfortable with technology.  On a cognitive level, I am not at all comfortable with it.  

If someone does not have the cultural framework for being at ease with technology, it seems to me that he may easily grasp the concepts, but if he, like me, does not have the native learning style or cognitive framework for assimilating that particularized body of knowledge and skill, then yeah, he'd probably have a combination of major difficulty figuring out how to learn a series of concepts and processes that are substantially different from verbal and most analog technology frameworks.  Absent occupational requirements, it makes perfect sense that figuring out a cell phone, DVD player, or PC would seem an insurmountable barrier.  

It's not necessarily lack of ability in older people--it's lack of need, lack of motivation, and lack of familiarity with the methods and concepts and processes used.  Younger people using smartphones or other highly user-friendly devices are similarly not necessarily lacking in ability or intelligence--I'm no slouch there myself--but may be comfortable with technology and yet not have the skill or background to become truly tech savvy without extensive training.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 04:00:17 AM by BridgeWalker »

BridgeRunner

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2010, 03:24:06 AM »
You aren't old enough to know. m'dear.

Not at all.  I used a typewriter through high school and my first semester of undergrad.  OJ's are not traditionally early adopters of technology.  I have written a number of term papers--including footnotes--on a typewriter.  I used a typewriter on my first law firm job too--I was the receptionist and one of my duties was typing up shipping labels, forms, and similar errata.  Not so much editing, but plenty of typewriter use in a professional setting. 

Quote
Trust me - editing with a word processor is easier than with a typewriter.

Yes, in a business environment with a moderate to heavy volume of docs and correspondence, it is.  My point was that the learning curve and time/money investment from zero-a single finished document is far shorter with a typewriter than with MS Word on a PC. 

seeker_two

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #73 on: October 01, 2010, 06:50:07 AM »
Texting is a great way to send a Post-It-Note over long distances to one or more people. For more detailed, in-depth stuff, use e-mail (esp. if you need a written, time-stamped record of it)....
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Brad Johnson

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Re: How old are you/technologically savvy?
« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2010, 12:24:26 PM »
At this very instant I'm typing on a laptop I that had been completely trashed (in terms of the OS and case exterior) by a friend's "tech savvy" kid.  The kid does it all - text, tweet, facebook, smartphone - and with great dexterity, skill, and involvement.  Unfortunately said kid is also the product of her generation.  She is able to use all this technology but has no grasp of how or why it works.  As a result if the technology fails she has no clue how to resolve the issue.  It also ensures she will, eventually and usually with total success, completely hose whatever machine the technology happns to be running on.

She understands nothing about OS basics, simple electronics, interplay of legitimate vs malicious programming, etc.  Take this laptop as an example.  She had it loaded with every kind of crap program you can think of plus a few that were new to me.  As a result it was completely useless, to the point where it eventually refused to boot even in Safe Mode.  She's done the same thing to her IPhone and one of their home computers.  More than once she's been left stranded because of some stupid thing she did with a vehicle. 

She is an otherwise good kid, bright, conscientious, and involved in all manner of community works and volunteerism.  She just has no clue how technology - mechanical, electrical, or otherwise - works.  As a result she creates all manner of problems that could be easily solved (or even more easily avoided).  Unfortunately my experience has been that she is in the overriding majority. 

I suppose it's an easy trap to fall prey to given society's penchant for creating conveniences.  Heck, I will take advantage of any convenience I can, especially  as my body reminds me more and more that my teenage years occured longer and longer ago.  But I also know how and why those conveniences work.  As a result if the convenience fails or is unavaliable I have, or can at least create, a valid and effective alternative.  That, I think, is the essence of this thread.  Beginning at a general age people no longer see technology as a tool to make life more convenience and efficience. It's now taken for granted and abused simply because it exists.

Brad
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