Toilet seals

[KD5NRH]

We can make a space shuttle airtight.  We can make water lines and fittings that handle thousands of PSI without a leak.

Why the heck can't a toilet actually seal to the sewer line?

I don't care that there's not supposed to be any pressure there.  The reality is that when the neighbor's tree roots clog the sewer line, poopy water spews out between the toilet and floor.  There's a perfectly good bathtub right next to it that the sewage could back up into without doing any real damage that a gallon of bleach and some hot water wouldn't fix, but no, the toilet seal must be weak so that it will come out onto the floor instead.

We've replaced the idiotic chunk of wax.  We've had the idiotic chunk of wax professionally replaced on the off chance that I'm not competent to replace an idiotic chunk of wax.  I've heard horror stories about the rubber-and-plastic things that are supposed to be replacing idiotic chunks of wax that lead me to believe that their design is somehow even more idiotic.  Why can't the flange and toilet simply be made well enough that a normal gasket would provide at least 10-20 PSI worth of leak resistance?

[never_retreat]

They would have to redesign toilets and the flanges for this to work. So it would create incompatibility issues, but it would be job security for plumbers.

[KD5NRH]

They would have to redesign toilets and the flanges for this to work. So it would create incompatibility issues, but it would be job security for plumbers.

When the design is broken, redesigning it is hardly a bad thing.  Besides, where else do they ever hesitate to have two or more completely incompatible standards in common use?

[RaspberrySurprise]

This is what you need

http://www.turnasure.com/images/p-pipeflange-1.jpg

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

it shouldn't leak if the flange is mounted correctly to the floor .  most plumbers just "float" the flange it moves and it leaks

[charby]

Sounds like you need to put a check valve on your sewer line going out of your house.

[Tuco]

Sounds like you need to call the man to come over and run the sewer line de-rooter machine for an hour.



Then put together a three year plumbing budget that includes bi-annual visits from the man with the sewer line de-rooter machine and a pound of copper nails.

[sanglant]

hmm, does roundup really kill roots?

[charby]

hmm, does roundup really kill roots?

I don't know but Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate does. Also know as bluestone.

[Tuco]

The key to contact herbicide is contact time.  The drain (intruding roots) will need to be dry when the herbicide is applied, and as the herbicides water carrier evaporates, the plant absorbs the poison.

Hmmm,  Rodeo is an aquatic use broad spectrum systemic - might be worth reading the label.

Otherwise a slug of granulated glyphosphate, followed with a couple of gallons of water before a week's vacation, with a very slow trickle or a two gallon per day drip.

Call the man with the root trimmer. 
He's not as bad as you might think, and then the poop goes right away.

After you kill the intruding roots (I doubt you'll kill the entire tree) they'll have to be trimmed out anyway.  A year later they'll be back.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

bought one of the electric eels off ebay for 50 bucks  plus 68 shipping  get 300 bucks for clearing a drain

[MechAg94]

How deep is the sewer line?  Don't they make those machines that cut lines through the dirt for burying cables?  Run one along the property line to cut the roots.

[KD5NRH]

How deep is the sewer line?

About 18 inches below the sprinkler system, unfortunately.

bought one of the electric eels off ebay for 50 bucks  plus 68 shipping  get 300 bucks for clearing a drain

That's a possibility.  It never fails that the clog starts on a weekend, usually during the holidays.  Drain Kings push enough through the roots that we can use the toilets for a couple more days, but don't do anything to get rid of the roots themselves.

I don't know but Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate does. Also know as bluestone.

We've been dumping it in every few months, and thinking about just buying it in bulk, but it doesn't seem to be keeping up.  OTOH, I cleaned out the shower that we don't use very often with something over a quart of muriatic acid, and heard the sewer line suddenly let go as I was rinsing.  Don't know if it actually dealt with the roots in a matter of minutes, or just dissolved everything that was caught in them, but it's something to keep in mind.

Sounds like you need to put a check valve on your sewer line going out of your house.

Gee, there's a thought.  IMO, it should be standard on any waste system, for the obvious reasons.  Last I looked, 4" check valves weren't even that expensive.  OTOH, it doesn't really help with the situation where nothing can go out, and backs up from inside.

This is what you need
http://www.turnasure.com/images/p-pipeflange-1.jpg

Don't tempt me; one of the clients makes that type of flange.

[CNYCacher]

Don't plumbers have root-cutting heads on their snakes?

[charby]

This is interesting

http://www.askthebuilder.com/B326_Avoiding_Sewer_Back_Ups_From_Tree_Roots.shtml

[Tallpine]

Sounds to me like you need to get to the root of the problem 

[AJ Dual]

My father kept a 4 story tall weeping willow just 20' from our house at bay by putting the copper sulfate crystals in a nylon stocking, tying it off, and then hooking it to the inside of the main soil stack clean-out connection.

I don't think it'll totally solve the problem, but it will provide a constant low level of control.

Also, as to the toilet seals, how high is the floor vs. the flange?

I had a bathroom with five layers of flooring above the original sub-floor boards, the previous owner's solution was just to slam down two wax rings. 

I wound up ripping out vinyl, luan, self-adhesive vinyl tiles, leveling compound, and the final original layer of linoleum and tar paper.

[KD5NRH]

Don't plumbers have root-cutting heads on their snakes?

Yes, but they charge money to come out, and want even more money to just hang out in the back yard all year waiting for a clog to happen.

This is interesting

http://www.askthebuilder.com/B326_Avoiding_Sewer_Back_Ups_From_Tree_Roots.shtml

Very, but I'm wondering if it will kill the grass to do it to a line that's only 3 feet down.

Might risk it anyway; grass is nice, but poop leaving the house is nicer.

My father kept a 4 story tall weeping willow just 20' from our house at bay by putting the copper sulfate crystals in a nylon stocking, tying it off, and then hooking it to the inside of the main soil stack clean-out connection.

That might work; we know the roots start within 5 feet of the cleanout, so that would get it pretty close to the problem.

Also, as to the toilet seals, how high is the floor vs. the flange?

Part of the issue might be that we're still on bare concrete in there after ripping out the original carpet (what demented freak puts deep shag carpet in a bathroom?) the first time it backed up on us.  We want to tile it, but we'd like to make sure the clog problem is gone first.  We do still have tack strips under the toilet to keep it at pretty much the same height it was with the carpet, but without knowing what the original floor was, (carpet couldn't have been more than a couple years old, and the house is nearly 40 years old) it's hard to say how high it should be above the concrete.

[RaspberrySurprise]

The apartment I live in now burned out about a year ago and when they re did it all they carpeted every room except the laundry room and the kitchen they completely carpeted the bathroom floor. Beyond stupid.

[Tuco]

The apartment I live in now burned out about a year ago and when they re did it all they carpeted every room except the laundry room and the kitchen they completely carpeted the bathroom floor. Beyond stupid.

And beyond health code 

[Boomhauer]

The apartment I live in now burned out about a year ago and when they re did it all they carpeted every room except the laundry room and the kitchen they completely carpeted the bathroom floor. Beyond stupid.

Eeewwwww.....

Carpet in general is fail. Carpet in the throne room is like triple the fail...

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

is the toilet flange secured to the concrete?

[charby]

And beyond health code 

Depends upon the municipality. Where I live rentals can not have carpet in the bathroom but private homes can. The neighboring town doesn't have any code in regards to carpet in bathrooms, rental or private.

[RaspberrySurprise]

I'm not sure what section of code this place would fall under as the first floor is used as an office by the lawyer who owns the building, the second floor contains my apartment. There is even a neat trap door that leads to stairs down to the first floor in one room.

I'm also pretty sure the city doesn't really know he is renting the upstairs as an apartment.

[Brad Johnson]

I don't care that there's not supposed to be any pressure there.  The reality is that when the neighbor's tree roots clog the sewer line, poopy water spews out between the toilet and floor.

Step one, call neighbor's insurance company and file a claim...

Brad