Who Killed DREAM? The Tea Party Did

[roo_ster]

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/kausfiles/2010/12/19/who-killed-dream-the-tea-party-did.html

"Nothing like fresh heads on pikes to, er, reinforce a persuasive (to my mind) policy argument."

The thesis is that was not Tea Party action against Dems in conservative states/districts that made the difference, but Tea Party candidate success against RINO amnesty squishes that stiffened the spines of most remaining RINO squishes.  To this end, Joe MIller in Alaska and Christine O'Donnell also played a significant role.

[grampster]

We should have our resident sign maker upper put together a poster we could cut and past to SEND the new and old Stupid Party members.

A picture of a spine with the words below:  SPINE:  KEEP IT OR GET IT.  WHICHEVER WORKS FOR YOU.

[longeyes]

The Stupid Party should be re-named The Sentimental Party.  Only a sentimentalist would vote for the DREAM Act as currently constituted.  It's a scam designed for one thing: a perpetual Dem majority after the "kids" become the vehicle for citizenship for their entire families.

[freakazoid]

I did a brief review of what the DREAM Act was and it looked good to me. 

[longeyes]

It creates a new class of anchor baby from my perspective, that's all.  There is no way we should be ceding more goodies to illegal aliens and their offspring when all of the key issues surrounding immigration, both illegal and legal, remain completely unresolved and clouded by obfuscation and outright lying.  Too bad so many Republicans are on board, but, as I said, they're the Sentimental Party.

[freakazoid]

It's not like these anchor babies are not contributing, in fact they would contribute a lot.

[RocketMan]

It's not like these anchor babies are not contributing, in fact they would contribute a lot.

Yes, they would.  To the eventual, perpetual re-election of Democrats.

[Perd Hapley]

It's not like these anchor babies are not contributing, in fact they would contribute a lot.

Your point?

[freakazoid]

The people who it would affect are people who are getting an education, and joining the military. And it's not like they are the ones who snuck across the boarder. I doubt that would create a lot of Democrat supporters.

[longeyes]

Contrary to propaganda they're not all valedictorians.  Who's going to verify their paperwork for qualifying for the program?  Give me one reason why we should take responsibility for their parents' action in coming here illegally, rewarding it, then using their eventual ciitizenship as a rationale for putting the transgressing parents on the path to citizenship too, plus various family members.  Please.  These "kids"--including the 30-year-olds--would help bring Mexico into the 21st century.  I suggest we give Mexico that gift.

[freakazoid]

What does there parents have to do with them?

[Perd Hapley]

What does there parents have to do with them?

[Brutally cutting remark redacted.]

[freakazoid]

Simple, yet refined. 

[Perd Hapley]

Sorry, freakazoid. I made a mean joke about your poor grammar. It was wrong. But I get so tired of my fellow Americans butchering the language, I really am not sure I care if immigrants speak our language or not. We can't speak English; why should they?

[longeyes]

Freak', I guess you're not worried about the fact that they're going to taking places and scholarships that rightfully belong to U.S. citizens.  Remember citizenship--what a concept!  I don't buy their alleged loyalty to America either; you'll need to prove that to me.  There's also an equivalency created here between military service and continuing their education.  The two are not at all equivalent. 

But even if we wanted to go easy on the children of illegals, I see zero justification for permitting them to then sponsor their parents and other relatives for citizenship.  No, this is amnesty by another name, and it won't be small in size either.  The Republicans continue with the delusion that they are going to end up with a lot of Republican latinos.  I think latinos who are Americans first and believe in America's legacy values are already Republicans.  If Karl Rove's fatuous theories about enlarging the Republican constituency haven't been utterly discredited by now, we have only ourselves to blame.  One reason Obama is in the White House is broad latino support.  One reason the state I live in--California--can no longer elect a Republican anywhere anyhow is the same reason.

[freakazoid]

I didn't do so hot in English class.   On second reading of what I typed, I see the error. lol

[roo_ster]

I did a brief review of what the DREAM Act was and it looked good to me. 

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/32735

Got an hour?  The above link is a dialog between a DREAM act supporter and someone who thinks it a very bad idea. 

Krikorian goes over several of the reasons it is a bad idea:
* Fraud would be rampant, as you only need the affidavit of one non-family member stating you meet the requirements.  Also, ICE not allowed to investigate shaky cases.  It'll be Pigford for illegal aliens.
* Those so DREAMed into legal residence can sponsor family (to include their parents) who can sponsor other family, who can sponsor other family....
* Age Limit too high
* Encourages MORE illegal immigration

There are other reasons, but those are the only ones mentioned & debated in the video.
* Who says they've been raised Americans?  Evey mojado family with young 'uns I've seen speak Spanish to them, anchor baby or sawed-off illegal alien.(1)
* No / little cultural inclination towards academics.  I know several teachers in teh big city public schools in the DFW area and most of these kids & anchor babies are piss-poor students with little desire to learn.




(1) There is the sadly hilarious case fo non-Mexican illegal aliens from other LA countries.  Many of the first-gen from Guatemala, Honduras, etc. get all bent outta shape when teir kids are raised Mexican in the USA.  I recall a NYT/WP/LA Times story about an illegal Honduran mother fighting with her illegal/anchor baby daughter and the daughter's last line was something like, "Of course I'm going to be Mexican!  We're in the USA!"

[Ron]

Someone has to pay taxes to keep the welfare state rolling.

Gringos don't breed enough, have to import tax payers.

[MicroBalrog]

* Those so DREAMed into legal residence can sponsor family (to include their parents) who can sponsor other family, who can sponsor other family....

Not to disrupt the thread, but how long does this sponsoring take? Wouldn't it take a few years to bring in a family members, and then a few more years for them to bring in their family members, and...?

[roo_ster]

Not to disrupt the thread, but how long does this sponsoring take? Wouldn't it take a few years to bring in a family members, and then a few more years for them to bring in their family members, and...?

I can't give you a precise time line or mean time, but the "family reunification" category results in the largest proportion of all legal immigrants to the USA.  It is horrifically rife with fraud itself, with scandals popping up every couple of years.  Immigrants already here will sponsor non-family members for a price and claim they are their old aunt Zaituni or some such.

[AZRedhawk44]

It's not like these anchor babies are not contributing, in fact they would contribute a lot.

Anyone who argues this purely from an economic perspective needs to re-evaluate their priorities when it comes to enacting legislation that affects the United States. 

There's more to this than economics.

If both sides of this issue were rational people and respected and honored rational agreements, there wouldn't be a problem.  I'd even be okay with giving them a path to citizenship.

But the argument for DREAM is that it's cruel to separate these families (consisting of illegal parents and anchor baby college kids).  The final analysis of such an argument is that separation of these families is cruel, so we can't deport the parents, either.  As such, DREAM is a gateway to Amnesty.  Pure and simple.

DREAM is about buying democrat voters.  DREAM is about the North American Union.  DREAM is about Amnesty.  DREAM is about extending entitlements beyond our borders... if some 3rd world mom can sneak into our country and have her child, and hide in our free society long enough, then her kid can have free tuition (on our dime) and/or default on Federally guaranteed loans (also on our dime). 

And with no means to prove if an "anchor baby" is actually an anchor baby or is merely a 12-year old that was smuggled into our country with mom last month (remember, illegals have no documentation so there's no way to prove anything with them other than taking them at their word, which is immediately suspect since they're inherently lawbreakers), it opens up DREAM to all children of Mexico whose parents are willing to risk the desert crossing with their kids.

As-is, I don't understand why anyone would go to college if they don't have an SSN/TIN in order to get employed afterwards.  You don't have an identity, which makes it impossible to prove that you graduated from anywhere to a potential employer.  Current anchor baby college grads have to commit identity fraud to get employed.

I say prosecute them.

And push the rest of this enlightened class of welfare thieves back to Mexico, where they can use their newfound knowledge to fix their own country.

[AmbulanceDriver]

Well, AZ pretty much made my points....

Seriously.  I know that Mexicans in this country can be really hard workers.  We saw it when we had our roof redone.  Regardless of the weather, the crew our contractor had out here kicked butt.  Honestly, had I known his work crew were all Hispanic, it might have given me pause, wanting to make sure they were here *legally*.  But I didn't get that opportunity prior to their showing up and starting work.  Honestly, I was a bit surprised, since the roofer we hired was a friend of my parents. 

I guess I just get really pissed off because I am a first generation American.  My family moved here from Brazil, *LEGALLY* (although Mom is an American citizen, so that made the process significantly easier).  But us kids still had to go through the naturalization process.  We are not "natural born citizens" to my understanding, nor could we ever be made so.  BUT we came here LEGALLY.  We didn't short-circuit the process and then make a frivolous (and fraudulent) claim of amnesty.  Nope, we did our paperwork, waited our time, and made sure our i's were dotted and t's crossed. 

This so-called "DREAM" act is nothing but a nightmare for this country.

[roo_ster]

It's not like these anchor babies are not contributing, in fact they would contribute a lot.

In the 21st century USA, you gotta make roughly in excess of $40K/year before you're pulling your own weight.  Meaning, the cost of gov't at all levels results in costs/expenditures that one needs to make $40K+/year to cover one's share in taxes (income, property, sales, etc.).

The $40K/year number is for someone who pays all legal taxes required, regardless of immigration status.

Given that $40K number and the sorts of anchor baby/illegal alien students going through our gov't school systems, I doubt your analysis.

[roo_ster]

Off the top of my head, Dallas ISD is 65% hispanic (over half of those anchors/illegals), 30% black and 10% other.

Given that, read this:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/030710dnmetdallasreform.3f9194c.html

[freakazoid]

In the 21st century USA, you gotta make roughly in excess of $40K/year before you're pulling your own weight.

Shoot, well it looks like with me being in the Navy as an E4 I am still not pulling my own weight, and I won't be for a long time.