1911 Recommendations

[makattak]

As most of you know next year is 2011, the anniversary of the adoption of the venerable 1911.

I do not yet own a 1911 (I know, heresy) and intend to make next year the time to remedy that.

Now, I will be asking this as a gift for my birthday, so I don't want it amazingly pricey. (I'm looking at you, Les Baer and Wilson.)

So, what guns would you suggest would make a good first 1911 that won't break the bank?

For example, Para's GI Expert looks like it might fit the bill for me.

[kgbsquirrel]

So, what guns would you suggest would make a good first 1911 that won't break the bank?

My first pistol was a used Springfield 1911-A1 milspec that I picked up for a few bills. I've been nothing but happy with it.

[makattak]

My first pistol was a used Springfield 1911-A1 milspec that I picked up for a few bills. I've been nothing but happy with it.

Ah, thank you for reminding me of another stipulation. Being that next year is an auspicious year  , I'm hoping for a new gun, made in 2011.

[AJ Dual]

Yep, I have one of those too. Perfectly reliable. And the lawyer-lock can be completely removed and disabled if you so wish. And you can even replace the mainspring cover if you don't like the keyhole.

The only downside is the GI sights. Patently absurd someone should be expected to use them.  

It's a great first 1911 to learn how the recoil spring and the bushing all go to- OH $#!+  

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Kimbers and Colts and Springfield Armorys occupy the beginning of the serious 1911 ladder.  They can run $500 to $1000or more, depending on what you want.  If that's in your budget, start looking there.  Stick to the 5" models without any do-hickeys like light rails or lasers or bayonet lugs, and you'll be alright.

If that's too much coin, then there are Rock Islands for $300 to $500, but I'd steer clear of them if at all possible.  Save some more pennies and put that money towards a good low-end Springfield.

If you have more than $1000, then Dan Wesson is the way to go.  They tend to have a lot of the quality and fitment of the semi customs like Baer and Wilson and Brown (actually, they use a lot of Ed Brown for the small parts).  DW makes some way, way good guns.  What you lose out on with DW relative to the true high end is the opportunity to customize the details the way you would with the true custom/semicustom brands.

Or, if you have $1k plus, you could by that $500 entry-level Springfield and spend the rest of your quid customizing it to your liking.  Not a bad option, really.  You'd start with a solid frame and slide, and the rest would be up to you.

I have no direct experience with any of the Para Ordinance guns.  Anyone who would make a double action 1911 just doesn't get it, IMO, and I won't be sending any of my money their way.

[Lee]

http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/pistols/custom/royal_II/

I don't currently own a 1911 either...but the one above was the first one I ever owned.  I would buy another.  It was a good shooter and was reliable with Wilson mags and most loads. Customization can be endless with 1911's (if you let it).  I never had the will to accept one as it was, and I can't afford a Wilson, so I went over to the dark side (Sig 220).  But I like the idea of getting another to celebrate the centennial.

[kgbsquirrel]

It's a great first 1911 to learn how the recoil spring and the bushing all go to- OH $#!+  

Even more fun after you've customized it and it now uses a 22lb recoil spring instead of the stock 16.5.    The magazine body makes a great improvised take down tool.


As for a budget NIB 2011 1911, I'll get back to you, I've been out of the loop on all the different (non-Colt/S.A./Les Baer/Kimber) manufacturers and their pricing.

[AZRedhawk44]

Springfield has their newest offering, the Rangemaster, that looks VERY nice.

Less features than the Loaded, more features than the GI or MilSpec.

The biggest "pro" to me is the lack of forward slide serrations.  Those things chew up holsters.

The biggest "con" to me is the target-style adjustable rear sight.  I favor fixed combat style sights.

All in all it looks like a great value and something that the 1911 community has wanted for a while.

[White Horseradish]

If that's too much coin, then there are Rock Islands for $300 to $500, but I'd steer clear of them if at all possible.

Why?

I often hear this on the Interwebs, but it is very rare that there are any specifics as to what exactly is wrong with Rock Islands. I have two. One I bought new, one used.  The biggest problem I had with them has been crappy springs, especially the sear spring. I bought Colt sear springs and Wolff for the rest and they have been running just fine ever since. The second biggest was the stock magazines. The feed lips seem to be weak and bend out over time. One bent out so far that a round jumped out every time I popped it in the gun. Bought some Chip McCormick mags, tossed the bad ones and the problem went away.

[Ben]

Or, if you have $1k plus, you could by that $500 entry-level Springfield and spend the rest of your quid customizing it to your liking.  Not a bad option, really.  You'd start with a solid frame and slide, and the rest would be up to you.

This may be your best option in the long run. I have a production Springfield TRP that with no customization is as reliable as anything out there, but it cost me $1200.

I also have a Combat Commander that I got on my 18th birthday as a stock gun (they were around $200 back then). Around 6-7 years ago I sent it to Don Williams for a full combat overhaul (or whatever he called it at the time). I think it was around $500-600 for this very complete rework. It is as fine a gun as you could ask for now, and I would stack it up to a Springfield Custom Shop TRP Professional any day of the week.

So long story longer, you could get any of the well known and solid "basic" 1911s out there, shoot it as-is for a while, then when you have some coin to spare, have it reworked for "street carry". It'll run you from around $200-$700 depending on what all you want done, but you can get a lot of basic reliability work done at the lower end of the scale. Just keep in mind any of the good gunsmiths will have your pistol for six months to a year.

[roo_ster]

SW1911

For a 1911 that works out of the box, has the nice & useful features most have come to expect(0), is quality-built, and reasonably priced, I would run with a Smith & Wesson 1911.  I always admired the build quality of their metal semi-autos (get thee behind me, Sigma!) and thought a 1911 by them would be great.  Well, they are.  I own one full-sized and when funds allow I am getting a scandium-alloy true Commander length.

My SW1911(2) is my preferred CCW.

Full-sized new SW1911s can still be bought new in the mid-$750 range.  Add ~$100 for (soon to be mine) scandium commander.

Springfield Armory is not up to S&W quality, and neither are the newer Kimbers(1).  My wife has an Officer's sized alloy 1911 made by SA in 9mm.  It is OK, but not the build quality of the S&W.  Cost is about the same, though.

Those are the only two I currently own.  I hear good things about the Remington 1911.  

Oh, almost forgot STI.  I have shot several of those and I am very impressed with build quality.  Their basic steel single-stack full-sized 1911 is not too much more than the SW1911 and would be worth a look-see.  




(0) Only two questionable features are the FLGR and the front cocking serrations.  The do not effect function, though.

(1) Early Kimbers were good quality, though.

(2) List of all customizations: Thin-sized Chip McCormick cocobolo grips, Trijicon tritium night sights, re-crown bl, grip tape on front of mag well and behind rear cocking serrations for more grip.  Runs great with Wilson 47D mags (came from factory with two).

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Why?

I often hear this on the Interwebs, but it is very rare that there are any specifics as to what exactly is wrong with Rock Islands. I have two. One I bought new, one used.  The biggest problem I had with them has been crappy springs, especially the sear spring. I bought Colt sear springs and Wolff for the rest and they have been running just fine ever since. The second biggest was the stock magazines. The feed lips seem to be weak and bend out over time. One bent out so far that a round jumped out every time I popped it in the gun. Bought some Chip McCormick mags, tossed the bad ones and the problem went away.

Eh.  I've seen issues where the RIA frame holes were drilled incorrectly, so you couldn't replace the lockwork or mainspring housing without some major fitting.  And I think that the better brands are more likely to get the feed ramp, barrel ramp, and throat done up right, which improves reliability when using hollow point ammo.

I suppose none of this matters unless you like to tinker with your guns, which I do.  If you just want to buy it and shoot it with ball ammo and never make any changes, then I suspect a RIA would be just fine.

[lee n. field]

So, what guns would you suggest would make a good first 1911 that won't break the bank?

If I were shopping, I would be looking at a Springfield Mil Spec or GI.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Speaking of tinkering, mak, if you have the interest, (and the time, and the money, definitely the money), then building your own 1911 is lots of fun.

Step right this way and take a gander down this here rabit hole...

 

[White Horseradish]

Eh.  I've seen issues where the RIA frame holes were drilled incorrectly, so you couldn't replace the lockwork or mainspring housing without some major fitting.  And I think that the better brands are more likely to get the feed ramp, barrel ramp, and throat done up right, which improves reliability when using hollow point ammo.

I suppose none of this matters unless you like to tinker with your guns, which I do.  If you just want to buy it and shoot it with ball ammo and never make any changes, then I suspect a RIA would be just fine.

I have replaced MSH on both of mine with curved ones (I like the feel of it better) without issue. I have also replaced some of the lockwork without issue. Again, not because of any problems, but just to tinker. Everything fit just fine.

The one I got used is an ealrier production run and it did  have a minor problem in the magwell. The newer one was just fine. I also have a Charles Daly, and that had way more issues than the RI. I think they worked out a lot of the kinks over time and the ones they sell now are quite good.

[Monkeyleg]

I have three Kimbers, all made before QC slipped. From the ones I've seen lately, I wouldn't rush to buy one.

STI's have a very good reputation. If I had the money for a Kimber, I'd spend a bit more and buy Colt.

A buddy has a Caspian that just shoots like a tack driver. Don't know what it cost, though.

[MillCreek]

These are alarming reports about current Kimbers.  I picked one up a few years ago at one of the local shows, and it has been pretty good for me. It is not the equal of my Combat Commander that I picked up in the early 80's, though.

[Perd Hapley]

I have no direct experience with any of the Para Ordinance guns.  Anyone who would make a double action 1911 just doesn't get it, IMO, and I won't be sending any of my money their way.

 

[erictank]

As most of you know next year is 2011, the anniversary of the adoption of the venerable 1911.

I do not yet own a 1911 (I know, heresy) and intend to make next year the time to remedy that.

Now, I will be asking this as a gift for my birthday, so I don't want it amazingly pricey. (I'm looking at you, Les Baer and Wilson.)

So, what guns would you suggest would make a good first 1911 that won't break the bank?

For example, Para's GI Expert looks like it might fit the bill for me.

I hear good things about Springfield's offerings, especially the GI/Milspec ones which are inexpensive, permitting you to get work done to your own specs on it.  I owned a used Kimber Custom Classic Stainless which was my very favorite gun for a while.  It came with target sights which were damaged by the previous owner, so I had them replaced with tritium fixed sights (yes, it was ugly.  No, I didn't care).

[Hawkmoon]

You can buy a Colt 1991 or a Colt Series 70 Reissue for well under $1000. The MSRP on the Colt Model O1918 (the current WW1 replica) is $999. If you're looking to buy a 100-year anniversary pistol, it simply doesn't make any sense at all NOT to buy a Colt.

That said, I also own one of the Para GI Experts, and it's a fine example of a 1911. It's the first Para that is completely true to being a 1911 -- no ramped barrel. And it doesn't have Para's Power Extractor. I don't like the hammer or the cheesy plastic trigger with faux "lightening" holes in it, but those are things that Brownells can take care of in short order.

But it's still a truism that "If it isn't a Colt, it's just a copy."

[RoadKingLarry]

I've got a Kimber Custom II and a RIA FS. The only complaints abut the RAI have are the GI sights but I knew that going in with full intentions of upgrading the sights. The other issue with the RIA was the grip safety. The edges were very sharp. A few minutes with a file and a little polishing followed with with a little cold blue and it no longer chews up the web of my hand.
 I like my Kimber I have used it quite a bit in IDPA and have probably close to 5000 rounds through it with no breakages.
I am also very happy with the RIA. I've only got abut 700-800 rounds through it and it has been solid as a rock and every bit as accurate as the Kimber as far as I am able to demonstrate. It feeds my HP defensive ammo of choice with 100% reliability so long as I don't try to use the RIA factory magazine. I use Kimber 7 round magazines in both of them.

[Jamisjockey]

Rock Island Armory.  Pimped out "tactical", "nickel" or "two tone" for under $500.  Still leaves room for mags, holsters, etc.


http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_876/products_id/411538986
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_876/products_id/411538987

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Double action guns just don't do it for me.  

The main beauty of a 1911 is its excellent single action trigger pull.  Why would anyone mess with that?

[French G.]

Para makes good stuff most of the time. Then one day you get the gun that was made on Friday out of the reject parts box while the Stanley Cup was on TV. I like their guns, the LDA does leave me a little cold though.

I 2nd the Dan Wesson recommendation for new factory. My DW is pre-CZ, supposedly better, do not know. I would say STI, but I have a personal allergy to STI, but if you have the $$$ then by all means get a 2011 from SVI.

Kimber that says Clackamas, Oregon on it is a good find.

[HankB]

Although they seem to have improved a bit of late, Para quality still seems to be inconsistent.

Lots of folks like Springfields, but if you look on various boards quite a few people have to avail themselves of Springfield's warranty service.

Kimber quality seems to have gotten spotty of late, and the prices of their "upscale" guns are approaching Baer territory.

I have a Baer and I like it - a lot.

Wilson is, quite bluntly, overpriced. For some models, absurdly so.

Ed Brown makes very nice guns, but you're paying at least a $500 premium for the Ed Brown name.

Surprisingly, there have been quite a few reports of problems with the SIG 1911s, so I'd avoid those.

Colt? No way, no how. My experience with a Colt Jammamatic and Colt's warranty NON-service thoroughly soured me on guns with the prancing pony.

From what I've seen, the S&W 1911s are good bang for the buck - if you can put up with the stupid "gun may fire without magazine" warning engraved on the pistol. (There may be a scandium-framed Commander-size version in my future.)