28-gauge Revolver?!

[Gowen]

That things got to be a mother to shoot.  I thought that they banned sawed off shotguns was because of the splatter potential.  Due to barrel length, there isn't much difference.

[280plus]

When the went and blatantly copied Kel-Tec

Yea, I almost fell over the first time I saw one of those rugers. Damn near an exact copy. 

[BlueStarLizzard]

Funny, dad loathes keltec because of the coustomer service. three times they sent it back w/o fixing it. Dad won't deal with them anymore.

[Perd Hapley]

Ah, so Taurus is like Colt's in that regard. So now it's becoming standard to name guns after government employees?

Was it Colt or Smith & Wesson that started that?

[just Warren]

JESUS! Take the wheel!  There are squirrels in the car! Gimme the 28! The glove box, its in the glove box!

[lee n. field]

And keep in mind, NONE of the super-tiny single-stack polymer framed autos has gotten out unscathed.

American Rifleman reviewed the current crop of micro .380s a few months back (time flies, it all flows together, no more than a year ago).  My recollection is that all of them, including the Sig, except the very most expensive, had functioning problems.

I suspect small autoloaders are harder to get right than larger ones.  KelTec  has a design (locked breech, half cock hammer on a tension spring) that seems to work well, and everybody's copying it.  

I did hear a rumor (once, on Tom Gresham's Guntalk, talking to Bob Morrison of Taurus USA) of a .380 revolver from Taurus.  Interesting, if true.  It could be pretty darn small, and less problematic than tiny autos.  At least until it's time to reload.  This was last year sometime, and nothing's been seen of it, so it's probably Taurus vaporware.

I will be interested to see Ruger's micro 9.

[Triphammer]

I bought a Taraus 8 shot 22 mag(blued)  ten+ years ago, the day before Brady went into effect. Never problem one. Bought a five shot small frame stainless 38 spec.(85?) 5 or six years ago for my carry gun when I got my CCW. Again, never problem one. I don't care for the looks of the Judge but I can't fault QA from my experience..

[280plus]

One thing I know about my P-32 is unless the round itself is no good it will go bang on the first round. After that it's anybody's guess. It hardly ever fails but it has. So I know I have to make that first shot count. 

[HankB]

American Rifleman reviewed the current crop of micro .380s a few months back (time flies, it all flows together, no more than a year ago).  My recollection is that all of them, including the Sig, except the very most expensive, had functioning problems.

I read that report - IIRC, you're right, in that every one - every one - except the Rohrbaugh (at around $1k) was a jammamatic. (At last, an article in a gun rag that saved me some money!)

I tried a Keltec P32 that a friend had . . . no functional failures in around 75 rounds, but accuracy!   With those oddball pyramid sights, I wasn't getting groups, I was getting patterns on a silhouette target at 25 yards.

Anyway, I don't see a .410 or (honking big) 28-ga revolver as a good self defense arm for anything except snakes . . . other threads on this and other forums have debated the merits of a 12 ga shotgun for defense, and the general consensus is that even there, slugs or buckshot are needed. So birdshot or a small load of buck at reduced velocity from a little shotshell? Nope - there are better choices.

[Marnoot]

I tried a Keltec P32 that a friend had . . . no functional failures in around 75 rounds, but accuracy!   With those oddball pyramid sights, I wasn't getting groups, I was getting patterns on a silhouette target at 25 yards.

The caliber (.32 or .380) and the size make it a close-in weapon, for sure. If you're expecting you'll need to be accurate at 25+ yards with it, you're carrying the wrong type of weapon. The P-32/P-3AT and clones are ultra-compact better-than-nothing close-in self-defense handguns; expecting accuracy at any appreciable distance is beyond their intended purpose. Think modern, semi-automatic derringer in spirit/purpose.

[AmbulanceDriver]

Marnoot hit the point I was gonna make.  Those small pocket pistols are what I've heard referred to as "elevator guns".  In other words, they're great if you're gonna get in a gunfight in an elevator.  Much longer range than that, forget it. 

[lee n. field]

I read that report - IIRC, you're right, in that every one - every one - except the Rohrbaugh (at around $1k) was a jammamatic. (At last, an article in a gun rag that saved me some money!)

I think this is that article.

[AJ Dual]

Marnoot hit the point I was gonna make.  Those small pocket pistols are what I've heard referred to as "elevator guns".  In other words, they're great if you're gonna get in a gunfight in an elevator.  Much longer range than that, forget it. 

And honestly, in many self defense scenarios, if you need accuracy at 25 yards you might be in some legal hot water for drawing/shooting anyway.

I applaud the states that have no "duty to retreat" and "stand your ground" laws, and I want them here in WI. However, the actual pragmatism of fleeing/de-escalating when possible, with lethal force as backup if it doesn't work, is probably the best in terms of actual outcome for most people and most situations when averaged out.

Children in tow, limited mobility, or being cornered obviously changes that in a heartbeat though.

[GigaBuist]

I thought that they banned sawed off shotguns was because of the splatter potential.  Due to barrel length, there isn't much difference.

The barrel length restrictions on shotguns and rifles are there to prevent people from cutting them down into pistol sized versions.  The original NFA language included handguns in the Title II weapons.  It wouldn't be much good to make pistols Title II if you could still take a shotgun or rifle (Title I) and chop it up into a pistol.

There's really nothing inherently dangerous about a short barrel on a shotgun.  In fact I think once you get 4" beyond the forcing cone all energy has been expended.  Longer barrels just give the user better pointing and swinging ability.

[AJ Dual]

So when is someone going to come out with an actual rimmed case .550 pistol round for this?

Or will that finally get the ATF off their keister  and declare it a DD? I hope not, even if I think the product is dumb.

[280plus]

Yup, 25 yds is a bit on the long side for a teeny li'l P-32. Ideally you've stuffed the barrel into your attacker's abdomen and pulled a contact shot or two. 

[gunsmith]

so when do we get 12 gauge revolvers?

[280plus]

so when do we get 12 8 gauge revolvers?

[charby]

There's really nothing inherently dangerous about a short barrel on a shotgun.  In fact I think once you get 4" beyond the forcing cone all energy has been expended.  Longer barrels just give the user better pointing and swinging ability.

I'm pretty sure the length is longer than that, longer the barrel to a certain point the shot will travel faster leaving the barrel.

[Pharmacology]

I'm pretty sure the length is longer than that, longer the barrel to a certain point the shot will travel faster leaving the barrel.

I remember seeing a chart somewhere...

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp187/evbutler/Velchart.jpg

[AJ Dual]

Shotguns lose very little velocity until they get cut down to 8" or less because shells traditionally use fast gunpowder, sometimes the same ones used in pistol bullets.

[Pharmacology]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDgCdQ-01Dc

[GigaBuist]

I remember seeing a chart somewhere...

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp187/evbutler/Velchart.jpg

I kinda wish we had more of an explanation behind those numbers.  FWIW I did a quick Google search and ran across somebody from Tromix (but not Tony) that did some velocity tests with 12 gauges.  His numbers showed a similar trend in that there was an odd "dip" with 20" barrels.  Not the same numbers, though, so I suspect this graph isn't from that same data.

I have no idea what to make of that.  Seeing it once is weird, twice makes me think there's something to it.

Shotguns lose very little velocity until they get cut down to 8" or less because shells traditionally use fast gunpowder, sometimes the same ones used in pistol bullets.

Ayup.  Shotgun powers are fast powders.  One of the guys I shoot with uses Red Dot (made for 12 gauge target loads) in his 9mm and .45ACP reloading.  Unique is a bit slower and it'll work in a bunch of different pistol calibers and any shotgun gauge if my memory serves me correctly.

I got the 4" beyond the forcing cone figure (which would be about 8" I suppose) from Tamara's blog somewhere along the line.  I think.  I can't quickly find a reference to it now, so maybe it was something she said on a board in her comments on another gun blog.

[sanglant]

so when do we get 12 gauge revolvers?

are you willing to build from a kit?

[Pharmacology]

Yeah, I've noticed that drop in Velocity in other charts as well.

For my purposes, it's a sort of bonus thing if it is a truth.