More Birther Stuff: Am I reading this right?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if you produced what we've seen from obama it would suffice to get your kid in lil league

[longeyes]

If Obama went through Oxy on a foreign student scholarship, claiming he was one, he's got some problems worse than birth issues.

[brimic]

if you produced what we've seen from obama it would suffice to get your kid in lil league

I'm sure million$ spent on lawyers would. lol

[MechAg94]

I, too, would like to see the original, but this is why the birthers are both nutty and dumb.

I agree most birthers don't look good and are their own worst enemy, but the most entertaining part of all this is the reaction to it by the Democrats and liberals.  They would best just ignore it, but they can't.  I always figured he was born here and was eligible to be President.  The birther's claims were interesting, but most entertaining was seeing how the Democrats can't seem to deal with a constant thorn in their side and stay on the high road. 

Do any of you think this is comparable to people going after Bush II over his National Guard record?  Since it was a Republican, the media was all over that story and wouldn't let it go until Rather's memo was exposed a hoax.  

[AJ Dual]

I agree most birthers don't look good and are their own worst enemy, but the most entertaining part of all this is the reaction to it by the Democrats and liberals.  They would best just ignore it, but they can't.  I always figured he was born here and was eligible to be President.  The birther's claims were interesting, but most entertaining was seeing how the Democrats can't seem to deal with a constant thorn in their side and stay on the high road. 

Do any of you think this is comparable to people going after Bush II over his National Guard record?  Since it was a Republican, the media was all over that story and wouldn't let it go until Rather's memo was exposed a hoax.  

I absolutely do.

Or... Of course things revolving around FIGHTER PLANES are so lax in the military that you can just "not show up" for your duties. And you can even be a complete idiot and fly one. 

[HankB]

I have a sneaking suspicion the real reason is that it's the information on the certificate is embarrassing, such as listing his race as "White/Caucasian", Religion "Muslim" if the certs in HI recorded it back then, or even some falsehood or omission as to who the father was.

That could be more than merely embarassing. Here in the USA, we have freedom of religion - if Obama says he's Christian, we accept that and take him at his word for it - it's his choice, after all. And, lacking HARD evidence to the contrary, most of the rest of the world is ready to pretend it's a non-issue.

But if his birth certificate says he was Moslem, then it will be impossible for anyone to pretend otherwise . . . sure, most Moslems will shrug and shake their heads in disapproval, but a couple of hundred million screaming beards will regard him as the apostate leader of the Great Satan, and work themselves into a lather.

Kamikaze jihadis, anyone?

[KD5NRH]

if you produced what we've seen from obama it would suffice to get your kid in lil league

Only in a rural farming community; who else would accept an unlimited supply of fertilizer as a bribe?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

But if his birth certificate says he was Moslem, t

sorry to disappoint but my birth cert from same hospital same era does not list religion

[HankB]

But if his birth certificate says he was Moslem, t

sorry to disappoint but my birth cert from same hospital same era does not list religion

And if Obama's document were made public, it wouldn't be a matter for speculation now, would it?

With all the fuss and furor, you have to ask yourself the question . . . if there's nothing to hide, why is BHO behaving as if there was?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

distraction?  plus it serves to cast a certain segment of his opposition as the lunatic fringe

[Jamisjockey]

distraction?  plus it serves to cast a certain segment of his opposition as the lunatic fringe

This.  X 10.  Anyone notice that it seems to pop up just when the left is taking a beating over something?

[lee n. field]

My understanding is that his mother was not qualified, by age & residential status, to grant citizenship on a chid born outside of the US.
 And no, I don't think I qualify a a BIRTHER though I'd like to know why so much money has been spent to hide any aspect of O's past. School records, college records, all hidden.

Her Highness The First Lady Hillary locked away her past during the Clinton regime in a similar fashion.

It would be easy, and cheap, to lay it all to rest.  Just produce the document.

Don't know, don't care. I'm tired of being lied to.

Eeee-yup.

[StopTheGrays]

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/01/a-new-twist-in-obama-birth-certificate-mystery.html
Interesting view from Pam Geller.

She basically says that Obama is a US citizen but thinks he has embarrassing stuff on the COLB. Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro and had his name changed to Barry Soetoro. According to the laws at the time his name change would be added to the COLB. He never filed papers to change his name back to Barack Hussein Obama, jr. "most likely because he used “Barry Soetoro” on all of his student aid applications for college, and probably received foreign student grants and admissions assistance playing off his years living in Indonesia".

[Hawkmoon]

Under existing law, the son of a U.S. citizen is defined as a native-born citizen even if they are born outside the United States. Obama would be still a valid candidate had there been documented evidence he was born on the Moon.

Former Connecticut senator and governor Lowell Weicker was born in France, IIRC. His parents were both Americans, but he was not born in the United States. And back when he was still senator, I'm fairly certain he investigated a run for President and concluded that he was NOT eligible because he had been born in France.

Gotta fire up the Google machine and check that out. Being a dedicated conspiracy theorist, I'm certain Obama is hiding something ... I just don't know what.

{Edit to add]Well, I found one article that says Weicker was born in France and commissioned a legal analysis of the question when he considered a run for President. But the article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html) says the analysis concluded that he was eligible. I was living in Connecticut at the time, and that's NOT the way I remember it.

[MechAg94]

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Article2

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

How do we define "natural born"?  

[CNYCacher]

Birth abroad to one United States citizen

A person born on or after November 14, 1986, is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:[7]

   1. One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
   2. The citizen parent lived at least five years in the United States before the child's birth
   3. A minimum of two of these five years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

INA 301(g) makes additional provisions to satisfy the physical-presence requirements for periods citizens spent abroad in “honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization”. Additionally citizens who spent time living abroad as the “dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person” in any of the previously mentioned organizations can also be counted.

A person's record of birth abroad, if registered with a U.S. consulate or embassy, is proof of citizenship. Such a person may also apply for a passport or a Certificate of Citizenship to have a record of citizenship. Such documentation is often useful to prove citizenship in lieu of the availability of an American birth certificate.

Different rules apply for persons born abroad to one U.S. citizen before November 14, 1986. United States law on this subject changed multiple times throughout the twentieth century, and the law is applicable as it existed at the time of the individual's birth.

For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true [7]:

   1. One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
   2. The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth;
   3. A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

Mama Obama wasn't old enough to pass #3.  If he was in fact not born in Hawaii, then he is not a citizen, despite his mom being a citizen.

[Hawkmoon]

CNYC, the question wasn't "Who is a citizen?" the question was "Who is a natural born citizen?" Obviously, if the mother wasn't old enough to qualify him as a citizen at all, the "natural born" part doesn't matter. But the definition of "natural born" disappeared sometime around 1795, and it has been a subtle, mostly unaddressed question ever since.

The question may (or may not) also apply to John McCain (born in the Panama Canal Zone), Lowell Weicker (born in Paris, past tense, I doubt he'll run again), and Mitt Romney (born in Mexico).

[CNYCacher]

CNYC, the question wasn't "Who is a citizen?" the question was "Who is a natural born citizen?" Obviously, if the mother wasn't old enough to qualify him as a citizen at all, the "natural born" part doesn't matter. But the definition of "natural born" disappeared sometime around 1795, and it has been a subtle, mostly unaddressed question ever since.

The question may (or may not) also apply to John McCain (born in the Panama Canal Zone), Lowell Weicker (born in Paris, past tense, I doubt he'll run again), and Mitt Romney (born in Mexico).

Ah.  I was addressing claims that he could have been born on the moon, as long as his mother was a citizen.

[Perd Hapley]

CNYC, the question wasn't "Who is a citizen?" the question was "Who is a natural born citizen?" Obviously, if the mother wasn't old enough to qualify him as a citizen at all, the "natural born" part doesn't matter. But the definition of "natural born" disappeared sometime around 1795, and it has been a subtle, mostly unaddressed question ever since.

The question may (or may not) also apply to John McCain (born in the Panama Canal Zone), Lowell Weicker (born in Paris, past tense, I doubt he'll run again), and Mitt Romney (born in Mexico).

So, you're saying that "natural born" refers to geographical location of the birth?

[HankB]

The question may (or may not) also apply to John McCain (born in the Panama Canal Zone),

I believe I read that a congressional panel actually looked into the circumstances of McCain's birth the first time he ran, and determined that since at the time of his birth his mother was a citizen, his father was a citizen (Active duty U.S. Navy) and his birth took place in a US military hospital on a US military base in the Panama Canal Zone which was under US control at the time, he qualified as a natural born US citizen.

I don't believe Obama has been subjected to this level of inquiry.

[Harold Tuttle]

If Obama went through Oxy on a foreign student scholarship, claiming he was one, he's got some problems worse than birth issues.

http://www.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=2234&mn=458426&pt=msg&mid=11998316

Obama’s college transcripts from Occidental College indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate at the school. The transcript from Occidental College shows that Obama (Barry Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship (scholarship) for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program – an international educational exchange program sponsored by the U.S. government.  Grants are available for U.S. citizens to go abroad and for non-U.S. citizens with no U.S. permanent residence to come to the U.S.  To qualify, for the non-US citizen scholarship to study in the U.S., a student applicant must claim and provide proof of foreign citizenship. This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obama’s detractors have been seeking.  The United States Constitution requires that Presidents (and Vice Presidents) of the United States be natural born citizens of the United States.

[Fly320s]

I want it to be true.

I also want a winning lottery ticket.

[Balog]

If true, that seems more like proof that Obama defrauded the grant people than that he's not a citizen.

[brimic]

If true, that seems more like proof that Obama defrauded the grant people than that he's not a citizen.

He didn't defraud anyone. People believed what they wanted to believe, regardless of evidence or lack thereof.

[Tallpine]

If true, that seems more like proof that Obama defrauded the grant people than that he's not a citizen.

He's a Democrat: he was a citizen before he wasn't a citizen before he was a citizen