Author Topic: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution  (Read 2505 times)

230RN

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"Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« on: February 11, 2011, 04:34:18 PM »
Well, it's making the rounds again.  The very excellent blog by Marko Kloos, the Munchkin Wrangler, on "Why A Gun Is Civilization" has been hitting the e-mail circuit and is AGAIN being attributed to a "Maj. L Caudill USMC (Ret)."

This is an incorrect attribution.  SInce I'm sensitive to intellectual property credits, I'd like to point this out once again.  See, for only one example,

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2009/05/the_mythical_ma.php

When this first started appearing as written by the Major, I did a little research on how this mis-attribution came to be, and APPARENTLY, although I'm not 100% sure, somebody copied the original to his clergyman, and that clergyman, thinking it was a great essay, forwarded to all his e-contacts, believing that the Major himself had written it.

But it was actually written by Kloos.

Mr. Kloos has had a lot of trouble trying to re-establish his authorship to this piece.

I re-post that essay here WITH PROPER ACCREDITATION, for your information and benefit and (hopefully) as a help to Mr. Kloos.

QUOTE:
-------------------------
"The Gun Is Civilization" by MARKO KLOOS, THE MUNCHKIN WRANGLER.

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force.

If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force.  Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion.  Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force.  You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations.  These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job.   That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury.  This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by  the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst.  The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter.  It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone.

The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.  It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

by MARKO KLOOS, THE MUNCHKIN WRANGLER.

-------------------
CLOSE QUOTE

(I may have screwed up the word-wrapping and hence the paragraphing here and there.)

Terry, 230RN

WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

vaskidmark

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2011, 08:54:57 PM »
Thank you.

I also have been fighting the good fight regarding the correct atttribution of authorship.

I'm sure Marko thanks you as well.

Didja ever hear the story of Marko and Uncle Ted?  It is the epic tale of a gentleman politely nailing someone to the wall and then waiting patiently for a relatively small check to make up for the hurt done.

I try to visit Castle Frostbite in Upper Cryogenica on a daily basis.

stay safe.
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They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

GigaBuist

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2011, 07:34:23 PM »
You're still missing one word from the original piece as far as I can tell.

Here's the original:  http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/2007/03/23/why-the-gun-is-civilization/

The paragraph that usually gets mangled is this one, with the missing word in bold:

Quote
When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

El Tejon

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2011, 01:43:14 PM »
Major Caudill?  Isn't that Algernon Sidney and James Harrington (and William Hawkins, Andrew Fletcher, inter alia)? =D

Sounds very whiggy to me, or perhaps neo-whiggy.  Be on the look out if Marko starts wearing a powdered whig and stockings. :lol:

I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Scout26

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2011, 05:38:23 PM »
"I happen to know Maj. L Caudill USMC (Ret)., and you sir, are no Maj. L Caudill USMC (Ret)."

 :P =D ;)
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Perd Hapley

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2011, 12:39:44 AM »
Major Caudill?  Isn't that Algernon Sidney and James Harrington (and William Hawkins, Andrew Fletcher, inter alia)? =D


Don't you mean John Trenchard and Thomas Gordon?
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230RN

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2011, 04:08:10 AM »
GigaBuist:

Quote
You're still missing one word from the original piece as far as I can tell.

Here's the original:  http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/2007/03/23/why-the-gun-is-civilization/

The paragraph that usually gets mangled is this one, with the missing word in bold:



Quote
When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footingwith a 19-year old gangbanger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.


Sorry, I just copied off the e-mail I got.  Wasn't aware of any deletion.  Had enough trouble getting the word wrapping more-or-less right from the email. 

Thanks for the correction.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2011, 04:17:23 AM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

El Tejon

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2011, 06:36:36 AM »
Quote
Don't you mean John Trenchard and Thomas Gordon?

All other whigs who wrote about how arms are civilization are covered in the inter alia. =D
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Jamisjockey

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2011, 09:06:31 AM »
Watching a frail 70 year old man with a walker wail on the Texas Star with his Glock 17 reinforced the point for me.  An armed society is a civilized society.
JD

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GigaBuist

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2011, 09:51:44 AM »
Sorry, I just copied off the e-mail I got.  Wasn't aware of any deletion. 

That's the other problem with people copying copyrighted work in long email chains:  Somebody mucks with it and nobody knows it's not the original any more.

I wouldn't ever notice it myself but Marko once posted about that particular omission before:  http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/major-caudill-and-gay-cooties/

MechAg94

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2011, 12:11:01 PM »
I have made the same point before, but I didn't state it nearly so well.  If you really want to have a gang and crime syndicate problem, get rid of all guns.  The idea of true individual freedom is subordinated to the group/society to a much greater degree.

On the other hand, 1) some people might like that subordination, and 2) they usually still want guns, but only in the hands of those they approve of. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Buzzcook

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2011, 02:56:10 PM »
So if I happened upon someone injured and in need of aid; they would have to either persuade me or use force for me help them?

How about I'd be an inhuman monster if I didn't.

Sometimes you do things because it is the right thing to do.

Emails such as this one try to set up a simple dichotomy and all they succeed at is being pretentious.

Scout26

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2011, 05:58:50 PM »
So if I happened upon someone injured and in need of aid; they would have to either persuade me or use force for me help them?

How about I'd be an inhuman monster if I didn't.

Sometimes you do things because it is the right thing to do.

Emails such as this one try to set up a simple dichotomy and all they succeed at is being pretentious.

You still have to be persuaded to help.  How often do we see an accident or someone in need and simply turn our heads and walks away ?
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

MechAg94

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2011, 06:06:18 PM »
So if I happened upon someone injured and in need of aid; they would have to either persuade me or use force for me help them?

How about I'd be an inhuman monster if I didn't.

Sometimes you do things because it is the right thing to do.

Emails such as this one try to set up a simple dichotomy and all they succeed at is being pretentious.
Are you stopping to help because you choose to do so?  Stating that it is the "right thing" implies that you are making a choice and are not forced to do anything.  

The better question to me if someone else sees someone they think is in need, do they come to you and take from you by force to give to the person they believe is in need? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

grampster

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2011, 07:42:21 PM »
Sometimes we persuade ourselves.  Mr. Buzzcook takes a simple notion about how one looks at a bifurcated au priori right of an individual to be secure in his person and muddies the water by injecting decision making in a macro sense.

 
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Perd Hapley

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Re: "Why the gun is civilization" mis-attribution
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2011, 01:26:17 AM »
So if I happened upon someone injured and in need of aid; they would have to either persuade me or use force for me help them?

How about I'd be an inhuman monster if I didn't.

Sometimes you do things because it is the right thing to do.

Emails such as this one try to set up a simple dichotomy and all they succeed at is being pretentious.

You're right, but at the same time quite wrong. Kloos makes an incredibly important point, and does it well. The over-simplified dichotomy of force or reason is a flaw, but not an overwhelming one. He also overestimates the power of guns to some sort of impenetrable wall of defense. Even so, his overall point is cogently argued.
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