Montana moves to repeal medical marijuana laws

[PTK]

I'm one of your "anti-freedom" gun lovers. I think drugs should be banned.

I am, however, completely on-board with the fact that it is not within the federal government's defined powers. The states (or localities) should do the banning.

I'm a federalist and a conservative, not a libertarian. Government has a place, I just prefer that government be as small and local as possible.

Out of curiosity, are you also alright with the government having control over things like the internet, interstate travel, etc., as long as it's not intra-state issues? I'm not poking fun in any way, I'm honestly curious how you view these issues. :)

[makattak]

Out of curiosity, are you also alright with the government having control over things like the internet, interstate travel, etc., as long as it's not intra-state issues? I'm not poking fun in any way, I'm honestly curious how you view these issues. :)

Interstate travel is a big no. The point of federalism is being able to vote with your feet. Also one of the specific things covered by the Interstate Commerce Clause.

If a locality wishes to (somehow) regulate the internet (as delivered in their locality), I have no problem with that. So long as people are free to leave, that locality can pursue their regulated internet.

Most of my positions are that decisions made at the local level are best within the framework of the constitution. The constitution has laid out the protections for life, liberty and property (listed in order of importance) and have worked well.

[PTK]

So, to be clear,  you're okay with certain liberties being restricted as long as it is either a state or local government doing it, and not the Feds? Interesting indeed, thanks for sharing. :)

I assume this also means you're okay with states such as MA, CA, NY, etc., restricting firearms ownership, so long as it's done on a local or state level?

Though I disagree with your opinion on matters like that, I applaud you for not only sticking to your guns (pun!) but taking a moment to answer my question.

EDIT: D'oh, I don't know how I skimmed over it. You specifically mention that laws should be made locally but within the framework of the Constitution. My mistake, no offense intended due to my overlooking that. :)

[roo_ster]

and yet in calif there is talk of rolling back the laws as well  wonder why?

"I'll take 'Statists on the Left and Right' for $100, Alex."

Control it like the narcotic it is.  I've lost too many people to drugs.

MJ is not a narcotic.

I've lost too many people to drugs.  The world would be a better place without junkies. 

Those two sentences seem to be at cross-purposes.


FTR, I my position is similar to mak's.  Federalism, within the confines of the COTUS and the state constitutions.  If the locals wanna institute Neo-Puritan-Land or Sexdrugsrocknrollville, let them do so, as long as they follow the COTUS.

The current WoSD lacks (US) constitutional justification outside of textual torture chambers, no matter how much we dislike some of the effects of drug use.  The price of liberty.  Ain't nothing new under the sun.

[PTK]

Also, for what it's worth, there is legitimate research available to show quite clearly the (limited, but obvious) medical use of marijuana, starting with that little-known shady organization the American Medical Association.

Yes, that one.

AMA .pdf link

Also, another organization that has done studies regarding medical marijuana? The Federal government. They found much the same, that marijuana has legitimate medicinal uses. The program is called the "Compassionate Investigational New Drug program", but was defunded and closed to new registrants decades ago due to the War on (some) Drugs.

Furthermore, then-Chief Administrative Law Judge for the DEA F. L. Young ruled in September 1988 that marijuana didn't meet the abuse potential and harmful side effects of a drug in schedule I category. It was to be reclassified as schedule II (able to be prescribed much like morphine, dilaudid, oxycodone, etc.) and said that marijuana is "one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man", then went on to say that the provisions of the Controlled Substances Act "permit and require the transfer of marijuana from Schedule I to Schedule II." And, in case you don't want to take my word for it, here's a link to that ruling.

The ONLY reason marijuana is still illegal and schedule I is that then-Administrator John Lawn overruled Young's ruling and rescheduling. Great guy. 

[MicroBalrog]

Give
would be a better place without junkies. 
Quit trying to play the sympathy card.
My back hurts, too.  Arthritis in my ankles. Get used to it. 
It get worse if you grow up  when you grow old.

So people in serious pain due to incurable medical issues should not be able to get medical treatment which they actually need?

And the fact YOU find your pain levels manageable is an excuse for you to just blithely ignore the suffering of others?

Remember that we are not advocating, here, for you to provide our weed (I suffer from chronic pain issues for other reasons than PTK. Currently they are not severe enough to justify medication - a decade or two in, they might. ). The supporters of medical marijuana being legal are advocating merely for society to allow us to receive medicine as prescribed by physicians for our actual illnesses.

[MicroBalrog]

I've lost too many people to drugs.

Having lost an individual 'to drugs' (not all drug deaths are actually drug deaths) is not an excuse to diminish the liberties of others, not any more than Sarah Brady's personal tragedy justifies her hateful views.

I, too, have lost a loved one to drugs (or possibly to lemon acid mixed into the drug they consumed). This is not a justification for me to justify others being imprisoned, beaten up, or punished in other ways for consuming drugs or providing them to others.

[tyme]

I don't like the medical marijuana argument because it implies that ordinary people should not have access to mj.

The criminalization of marijuana in the first half of the 20th century was based on lies.  It's that simple.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I don't like the medical marijuana argument because it implies that ordinary people should not have access to mj.

The criminalization of marijuana in the first half of the 20th century was based on lies.  It's that simple.

and the "movement " today is also manure based

[MicroBalrog]

I don't like the medical marijuana argument because it implies that ordinary people should not have access to mj.

The criminalization of marijuana in the first half of the 20th century was based on lies.  It's that simple.

I do not like the medical marijuana argument any more than you do, but I feel that it is our humanitarian duty to enable legal access to drugs at the very least to people who have a medical need to them. I mean this not 'as a step' towards anything - incrementalism is of course morally wrong - but just a minimal thing on which anybody should agree if they're human at all.

[PTK]

C&SD, you have once again completely missed the point.

tyme, I fully agree - I think marijuana should be as legal as alcohol or tobacco, period. However, currently, this is the only way for me to legally use marijuana for medical purposes. Better than having to illegally use something, I would think, but as unfair as if I were a LEO and could carry a gun where others cannot.

MicroBalrog, you get the point. I dislike that marijuana is illegal for most everyone, but as long as I can legally get it, I will certainly use it for medical purposes. The real telling aspect is that if it were to be as legal as alcohol and tobacco, I still wouldn't use it for recreation! 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The "movement " is gonna remove the medical use option with their manure   they are not your friend

[41magsnub]

The "movement " is gonna remove the medical use option with their manure   they are not your friend

I don't think anybody here is disagreeing with that.

[Regolith]

I don't think anybody here is disagreeing with that.

Yup.  It's just that the "movement" has absolutely no bearing as to whether or not MJ should be medicalized or legalized.  Just because some degenerates happen to agree with a position doesn't mean that position is wrong. There are plenty of gun owners who I would never want to hang around with and who I wish would get off my side, but that doesn't mean I'm going to change my stance on the RKBA.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

letting those degenerates become the public face of medical marijuana did not happen in a vacum

[MicroBalrog]

letting those degenerates become the public face of medical marijuana did not happen in a vacum

Sadly C&SD speaks truth.

I have been a political volunteer for Israel's Marijuana legalization movement at one point. If there is anything I learned it's that marijuana legalization is too important to be trusted to stoners.

[PTK]

letting those degenerates become the public face of medical marijuana did not happen in a vacum

Fine. Instead of only posting negative comments, what are your constructive suggestions for helping marijuana become legitimate in the eyes of folks like you? Mind you, on this specific facet of this issue (people like Jason Christ becoming the "face" of MT MM, for example) I fully agree with you.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

quit acting like adolescent stoners.  christs activities were/are no secret   the haole "no snitchin" is just as perverse as the gangsta rap version.  when there is a problem in your area its your responsibility to make some noise. do otherwise you end up with associations like the good folk in the minuteman movement are saddled with when one of their former leaders get a murder conviction.  the whole group gets tarred with a wide brush.

[PTK]

quit acting like adolescent stoners.

...so, in other words, you have no constructive, helpful suggestions. Noted.

For what it's worth, I already do what I can to get out there, write letters, call representatives, and I know for a fact I put a great face on medical marijuana here in MT. Basically no one expects me to be one of the card holders, that's for sure. :)

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

..so, in other words, you have no constructive, helpful suggestions. Noted.

was that too subtle?  or is it you just didn't like the reality? the community was not unaware of christ  but it was cool.  till now it jeopardizes the progress made and then its "its not fair!"  hence the adolescent stoners characterization.   want to be taken seriously? act seriously.  phone diagnosis?  all the other nonsense ?  typical in adolescents  push the limits till you get smacked.  mom and dad will never catch on

[MicroBalrog]

The adolescent stoner is the complete moral superior of the man who persecutes him.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

grandiose categorical statements are common in adolescents   often they use words like clearly  or definitively to "prove" their point

[PTK]

cassandra and sara's daddy, it is interesting to note that your willful ignorance carries over into even debates where you have a very strong opinion. Interesting indeed.

[MicroBalrog]

grandiose categorical statements are common in adolescents   often they use words like clearly  or definitively to "prove" their point

I'm not clear as to why you think that something being "adolescent" in nature automatically makes it untrue.

Some moral truths do deserve to be stated in a categorical manner.

[dm1333]

PTK,

I don't have an issue with medical MJ as long as it is treated, controlled and prescribed just like oxycontin, morphine, etc.  I do have plenty of issues with the medical MJ program here in California.  215 cards have become a joke.  That guy in Montana was making the whole process a joke.  Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he the dude with the medical MJ caravan where some of the patients only spent 6 or 7 minutes with a doctor?  That sort of abuse of a prescription drug is my only beef with medical MJ.

For the rest of the people who want to call me or others like me a statist, anti freedom, etc. the invitation to come out for a tour of Mendocino County or Fort Bragg in particular is still open.  During the last thread about medical MJ I threw that invitation out.  The offer is still good.  Then we can see and talk about pervasive crime, abuse and neglect that is being caused by the MJ culture here.  That special on CNBC, Marijuana Nation or whatever it was called, struck me as pro pot propoganda.  They should have let me loose with a camera for a couple of hours here or in Garberville to show some of the downsides to pot use.