The dog debate.

[never_retreat]

Have you considered an Alaskan Malamute? They tend to be more aggressive and territorial then the siberian but still very active and playful. And its the right size range.

from a good breeder and with a steady hand, they can be very good. Just don't let them run unconfined!

I like the Alaskan Malamute but again I know someone with one and it is massive. Its not off the list if I can find a breeder using small parents.
A husky is a possibility also.

I don't have the OMG its a pit bull need to kill it mentality. My friend had (died recently) pit/english bulldog mix that he had rescued. Great dog good with other dogs hatted cats and had to be watched around women he did not know. Built like a brick crap house. But had a lot or joint problems. That dogs only saving grace it that the owner had a cousin that is a vet and did the work on the cheap.

Why the heavy preferrence towards Asiatic breeds? They kind of obscure over here...

Don't know, something different.

[Harold Tuttle]

terrier

2x the smarts and tenacious

[Harold Tuttle]

irish red terriers are cool, or a bouvier de flandes

[BlueStarLizzard]

They are not supposed to be that massive. Unfortunatly, its one of those breeds that attracted the idiot element for awhile and the result (like labs) are oversized, agressive, dumbed down or neurotic beasties.

They are heavy dogs, but are not supposed to be huge. Siberans are the racers/endurance and thus a lot smaller and more agile. Malamutes are the freaters, to pull heavy loads.

Watch out with the sib. In temperment it doesn't fit your criteria. The best (and truest) joke I ever jeard is "the first time they fetch is your valubles for the robber". They are really smart clowns. As in to smart for their own darn good. They are notorous for being hudeini dogs and escape for funnsies and then they do what their breed for, they run. And run, and run.

Malamutes tend to be a bit dumber and more mellow, and to have som sembalence of dignity (sibes have no dignity ). Not to the point where they are boring, but more managable then the sibe. They need a stronger hand and, like I said, can be a bit aggressive if not handled well, but a good dog, with a good owner is wonderful.

We have a female, Juno, that boards. Her owners think she is a sibe. She's not. Anyway, cute as a button, playful, loves her buddie (husky cross named katie) and very cuddly when she wants. Also, clean and well behaved. Her biggest fault is nobody took the time to really teach her to walk on a lead.

both breeds tend to be happy wih other dogs, love kids (play time!) But can be death to cats.

If the size and shape confuses you, one method to tell sibes and malamutes appart is malamutes do not, should not, never, ever, have blue eyes.

I love siberians. I grew up with two. If you can take the fact that they will make a fool out of you on a regular basis, go for it. Nothing more fun then a sibe. Also nthing more exsaperating, hairraising or wildly rotten! anyone tells you diffrent, then they've never been around one.

[BlueStarLizzard]

irish red terriers are cool, or a bouvier de flandes

Both involve lots of grooming, the terriers require a professional.

terrier

2x the smarts and tenacious

I do NOT like the trend of everyone and their brother getting terriers. The result is really messed up dogs filling the local pound.

Terriers are Hunting dogs. Their name comes from'terra' or earth, because thats where their pray generally resides. Unlike dogs breed for sport hunting, they were the hunting dogs of the commen folk and were used as pest control, killing vermin, with little human direction.

Their instincts, to this day, are 'snap' and then 'kill'. they can make great pets, but they are not for everyone.
They are tenatious and smart, but in most households, especially with young children, this can be bad mojo. Even worse when someone who really knows nothing about them gets one.

And before someone gets upset, because I have talked 'bad' about their presious jr or whatever. I love terriers, and I have seen this $#&#$# problem ruin one to many wonderful dogs.

[French G.]

On the arctic breeds and running. My neighbors 2 miles distant and up a mountain had a male Malamute and a female husky, later replaced by a young female husky/wolf mix. All sweet dogs but they were in my yard more than my dog it seemed. Or just long enough to talk my dog into going off to run deer.

My current white GSD is the first animal that has not come from a shelter or just walked in looking for hand-outs. Very smart in his own stupid way. Needs love, attention, and pretty constant reminders about who is boss. Our old dog could go months before discovering the invisible fence was not working. This one checks every morning.Probably a 2 acre perimeter, little path all around.

One of my neighbors is a pretty serious sheep farmer. Also works full time. She got a young female border collie to get trained, but left it tied while she was at work. I picked the dog up and brought it home, it was crouched on the outside of a blind curve trying to herd cars with a little stub of chewed through steel cable lead still clipped on her collar. Fed her, returned her home that evening. 2 days later, same dog, same plan, new chewed lead. No herding  dogs unless you have plenty of time for love and something for them to do.

I remember some folks that had airedales when I was a kid, sweet dogs.

[BlueStarLizzard]

French, that is indeed the problem with herders, especially boarder collies and aussies.

When we first got Graham, we saw him attempt to herd the other dogs and cats all the time,and pearl started to refuse playing fetch when he was out, because he would beat her to the ball and then have to be chased to get it back. Pearlie was very offended, as she always trots back promptly with the ball and sits at my feet to give it back. 

And thats the worlds only LAZY border collie! He is currently snoring on the couch.

We have a few that board well. The rest poop and pace, which is not a good combo. Even the ones that don't poop still pace and get themselves extreamly worked up. The ones that are straight pets with, well, lazy owners, are all extreamly nurotic and snappish as well.    working dogs like being working dogs and if you don't give them some sort of 'job' they either find one themselves (which does not often end well) or they go bonkers.

[roo_ster]

My current white GSD is the first animal that has not come from a shelter or just walked in looking for hand-outs. Very smart in his own stupid way. Needs love, attention, and pretty constant reminders about who is boss. Our old dog could go months before discovering the invisible fence was not working. This one checks every morning.Probably a 2 acre perimeter, little path all around.

We went with the exposed hot wire 6" up off the ground, at the fence line.

One or two shocks and none of my GSPs messed with the wire, again.

[BlueStarLizzard]

We went with the exposed hot wire 6" up off the ground, at the fence line.

One or two shocks and none of my GSPs messed with the wire, again.

We have one anatolian bitch that was out with the goats for awhile. The goats have hot fencing. Tiger lily figured out pretty quick that if she tried to go through it, it would hurt.

So she would put her head down, scream bloody murder and run through the fence as fast as she could. 

She now lives in a covered run in the main kennel. 

[Hawkmoon]

...
Sub 100lbs I don't want a horse.
...
I'm personally leaning towards a Japanese Akita Inu. Some web sites say they weigh between 60-120 lbs. I currently know 1 person with this breed and his is not 120 lbs.

I vote against the Akita. My stepson (in South America, not the U.S.) has one. First, it's one of the biggest dogs I've ever met (short of a couple of Saint Bernards and one Rhodesian Ridgeback).

Second and more important, my stepson runs a nursing home. About two months ago, the dog attacked an 80+ year old resident of the home for no apparent reason. Only after this incident did my stepdaughter volunteer the information that she twice intervened as the dog was zeroing in on her toddler son.

[Balog]

Well, in all fairness I could probably list an unprovoked mauling/biting incident for every breed in existence. Labs, goldens, Newfoundlands etc etc have all killed people for no damn reason before.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

real wide range in size with akitas  breed was almost wiped out during ww2 (think food)  was down to at most a couple hundred pairs. 

[Jamisjockey]

Well, in all fairness I could probably list an unprovoked mauling/biting incident for every breed in existence. Labs, goldens, Newfoundlands etc etc have all killed people for no damn reason before.

Sure. But some animals are built and bred for killing.  Instinct cannot be ignored.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

true  thats why my chicken coop is damn near armored as well as strung with hot wire.  to keep my husky lab mix out

[Balog]

Sure. But some animals are built and bred for killing.  Instinct cannot be ignored.

Out side of a few working lines of the various shepherd breeds no dogs are bred to have an "instinct" to hurt humans. Some of the terriers are snappy, some of the herders are nippy, and a lot of breeds from a lot of groups are territorial. But this "bred to kill" foolishness is about on par with how EBR's are designed to shoot up schools.   If your dog mauls your kid, 99.9% of the time it's the owner's fault not some mysterious "killer instinct."

[never_retreat]

They are not supposed to be that massive. Unfortunatly, its one of those breeds that attracted the idiot element for awhile and the result (like labs) are oversized, agressive, dumbed down or neurotic beasties.

They are heavy dogs, but are not supposed to be huge. Siberans are the racers/endurance and thus a lot smaller and more agile. Malamutes are the freaters, to pull heavy loads.

Watch out with the sib. In temperment it doesn't fit your criteria. The best (and truest) joke I ever jeard is "the first time they fetch is your valubles for the robber". They are really smart clowns. As in to smart for their own darn good. They are notorous for being hudeini dogs and escape for funnsies and then they do what their breed for, they run. And run, and run.

Malamutes tend to be a bit dumber and more mellow, and to have som sembalence of dignity (sibes have no dignity ). Not to the point where they are boring, but more managable then the sibe. They need a stronger hand and, like I said, can be a bit aggressive if not handled well, but a good dog, with a good owner is wonderful.

We have a female, Juno, that boards. Her owners think she is a sibe. She's not. Anyway, cute as a button, playful, loves her buddie (husky cross named katie) and very cuddly when she wants. Also, clean and well behaved. Her biggest fault is nobody took the time to really teach her to walk on a lead.

both breeds tend to be happy wih other dogs, love kids (play time!) But can be death to cats.

If the size and shape confuses you, one method to tell sibes and malamutes appart is malamutes do not, should not, never, ever, have blue eyes.

I love siberians. I grew up with two. If you can take the fact that they will make a fool out of you on a regular basis, go for it. Nothing more fun then a sibe. Also nthing more exsaperating, hairraising or wildly rotten! anyone tells you diffrent, then they've never been around one.

I have a friend that had a Siberian husky and his was constantly trying to get out of the house during the day. Jumped out 2 closed windows, ate through a wall only to be stopped by the exterior brick, and chewed a door knob down to the size of a golf ball. I don't think his training was the best IMO. The only thing I think he mastered was not to jump and come. He eventually got a lab as a playmate and that worked fairly well.
The AKC site lists the Malamute as up to 85 lbs. I don't think I have ever seen one that small.
Border Collies are out. Great dogs will play fetch till it drops or you do. But they tend to be in there own world.
I'm leaning away from terriers, not my cup of tea.

The GF in the past had a Rhodesian Ridgeback and a Newfoundland, so they are already on her approved list. But the Newfoundland i just to big.

[never_retreat]

Out side of a few working lines of the various shepherd breeds no dogs are bred to have an "instinct" to hurt humans. Some of the terriers are snappy, some of the herders are nippy, and a lot of breeds from a lot of groups are territorial. But this "bred to kill" foolishness is about on par with how EBR's are designed to shoot up schools.   If your dog mauls your kid, 99.9% of the time it's the owner's fault not some mysterious "killer instinct."

The guy I know with the Akita got charged by a pit bull looking dog. The Akita grabbed it from the air and killed it. So I know they are very protective, the bigger problem is the non liking of other dogs and animals.
I have known 1 German Shepard that killed a bugler and another one that kills dear for fun.
And a rottie that did a number on another robber.
So any dog can kill something.
I always say our current dog is plotting my demise by the constant taste testing. 

[roo_ster]

Newfoundlands are challenging dogs and need a strong and steady hand, ime.

[Pharmacology]

Out side of a few working lines of the various shepherd breeds no dogs are bred to have an "instinct" to hurt humans. Some of the terriers are snappy, some of the herders are nippy, and a lot of breeds from a lot of groups are territorial. But this "bred to kill" foolishness is about on par with how EBR's are designed to shoot up schools.   If your dog mauls your kid, 99.9% of the time it's the owner's fault not some mysterious "killer instinct."

I'd always thought a certain breed of Mastiff was bred for use in war?

[Harold Tuttle]

i would recommend one of these:


but theres only one, & she's my gal.

Karma is a rescue from a Kill shelter in Tennessee where she was found
and transfered to Charlottesville VA, we found her on www.petfinder.com,
where she was listed as an Australian Terrier. She's ~30 pounds of bounding energy.

[Balog]

I'd always thought a certain breed of Mastiff was bred for use in war?

All mastiff-esque dogs were are descended from the molosser. But that was 2000 or so years ago, so not overly relevant.

[drewtam]

Boxer might fit the bill.

Medium size.

The coat is short and smooth. The shedding is very light.

Ours is extremely gentle and tolerant of children.

He has a nice deep bark that is reserved only for strangers. When I or wife get home he never barks. But when a stranger pulls up, he can tell the difference in the sound of car and lets a few roars rip. He doesn't go crazy with barking. Otherwise he is very friendly and playful.

Obedience is average aptitude and takes typical training.

Intelligence is above average.

[castle key]

The ultimate breed of dog is the Palermo Beach Collie.

If you have never heard of it, ask Mike Irwin. He owned one. Mike owned the only Palermo Beach Collie.

That said, I really enjoy such discussions about one of my favorite things, DOGS!!!!!

Whatever dog is finally decided upon, take good care of it, love it lots, have the kids make it a major part of their lives, and the reward will be exponential.

Oh yeah, I like Leonbergers!!

[BlueStarLizzard]

Out side of a few working lines of the various shepherd breeds no dogs are bred to have an "instinct" to hurt humans. Some of the terriers are snappy, some of the herders are nippy, and a lot of breeds from a lot of groups are territorial. But this "bred to kill" foolishness is about on par with how EBR's are designed to shoot up schools.   If your dog mauls your kid, 99.9% of the time it's the owner's fault not some mysterious "killer instinct."

Not true. Black Russian Terriers were created by the USSR as the ultimate police dog. They have no other working purpose then to attack people. They were commenly used to guard soviet consentration camps.

[Balog]

Outside of a few working shepherd and one terrier lines...