The dog debate.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I've been thinking about getting a dog some time in the next year.  I described what I was looking for in general terms to someone who is somehow into dogs and they suggested a Tervuren.

Thoughts?

Similar temperment to GSD, but healthier. If you want less coat, get a malinos.

[castle key]

Malinois tend to be a bit harder headed I think. The fourth type of Begian herding dog, which is rarely seen in the US but neat, is the Lakenois.

This dog discussion is refreshing because so many get a dog based on looks or popularity rather than the most important traits, temperament, personality, and original purpose.

Those traits will create a better fit into whatever family dynamics are needed.

[Harold Tuttle]

http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/18728946

[Balog]

CNY: what are you looking for, in general terms? :)

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i like mutts/crosses  tend to avoid the inbreeding issues and for me seemingly more durable. i usually let my dogs find me,  and boy do they  have had up to 13 at one time  thats a lil over the top.  but just in case i'm licensed for 50

[280plus]

I've been thinking about getting a dog some time in the next year.  I described what I was looking for in general terms to someone who is somehow into dogs and they suggested a Tervuren.

Thoughts?

Yes! What the hell is a Tervuren? 

[Harold Tuttle]

Tervuren are excellent with a mustard sauce and a quick stirfry.
Hello, that is a beautiful dog, would you let me wok it?

[BlueStarLizzard]

i like mutts/crosses  tend to avoid the inbreeding issues and for me seemingly more durable. i usually let my dogs find me,  and boy do they  have had up to 13 at one time  thats a lil over the top.  but just in case i'm licensed for 50

There are benifits to both

With a pure breed from a reputable breeder you can get closer to an exact match to what ypu need/want. Which is great for familys but down right important to people who get dogs for certain jobs or with special needs or issues.

Anatolians excel as stock guardians, and are worked to this day, as are border collies for herding, but also adapt particulary well to other intrests and jobs. Border collies are great dogs for people into dog sports like agilty and fly ball, and we have several Anatolians working as service dogs. At the same time, border collies arn't great for jobs needing calm, mellow temperments and an anatolian is rare in agilty, obedaince ext, because, well, that just ain't their thing.

And leonbergers, perhaps the worlds first designer breed, giants bred as fashionable, loving compainions, excel as therpy dogs. 

Its good to have some recognition of breed, even when your getting a dog from the pound, because being able to tell a little about heritage can help indicate what temperment, personality and health traits may influance what kind of dog it will be.

The best dogs I see are good 'fits' with there people.

[Balog]

I love leonbergers, but so much fur... :/

[BlueStarLizzard]

I love leonbergers, but so much fur... :/

Its just a normal double coat. As long as you get the undercoat out during shedding season and comb them enough to keep the tangles from becoming matts, its really pretty managable. Same with newfies.

Its when people don't do anything to manage the coat for months on end that it becomes hanous and gross, which they then foist off on us and then whine about the $100+ bill
 

[280plus]

I was just discussing mauntenance with a guy. The bottom line is: You can pay me now or you can pay me later and later will cost a lot more. 

[castle key]

Leonbergers will fill vacuum bags but they also will fill your heart....but any dog can do that!

Mutts v. Pure Bred

Hybrid vigor can be good but with hybrids you also get the genetic faults of every "contributor." The best bet is to go with a well bred pure bred, but if you can't trust the breeder, maybe the genetic mix will produce the best average. Every dog can be wonderful. I love it when I drive down the street and see a really ugly dog, I mean BUTT UGLY, but these dgs always look so happy!

The dogs look past the mirror...perhaps we should also.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I was just discussing mauntenance with a guy. The bottom line is: You can pay me now or you can pay me later and later will cost a lot more. 

I get a bit irate when dogs come in with badly neglected coats. The best of the worst owners show up maybe quarterly, the really rotten ones show up maybe omce a year, and its obvious that no one has touched the coat since we last saw it.

Which ticks me off three ways, first is just the raw amount of work involved. Hours of labor. I only bath, dry and comb out dogs (well, I do nails, ears and anal glands too) and when one of these dogs comes in, its one person for hours, working on one dog. We have had a couple, older dogs that come in like that which takes two people, one to work the coat, one to just support the dog.
The second reason is, nine times out of ten, the owner is a jerk. Complains about bill, bitches about how long we take and on and one.
But the worst is how hard it is on the dogs. Standing for hours, having someone yank and pull on their hair. And mostly, they are angels about it, just standing there with a miserable look on their faces. Even the ones that get snappy towards the end, I can't blame them, since, if I was in their paws, i'd have nailed someone by then.

We get forced to tourture these poor dogs for hours because some !$&# couldn't be bothered to pick up a comb.

[Pharmacology]

I get a bit irate when dogs come in with badly neglected coats. The best of the worst owners show up maybe quarterly, the really rotten ones show up maybe omce a year, and its obvious that no one has touched the coat since we last saw it.

Which ticks me off three ways, first is just the raw amount of work involved. Hours of labor. I only bath, dry and comb out dogs (well, I do nails, ears and anal glands too) and when one of these dogs comes in, its one person for hours, working on one dog. We have had a couple, older dogs that come in like that which takes two people, one to work the coat, one to just support the dog.
The second reason is, nine times out of ten, the owner is a jerk. Complains about bill, bitches about how long we take and on and one.
But the worst is how hard it is on the dogs. Standing for hours, having someone yank and pull on their hair. And mostly, they are angels about it, just standing there with a miserable look on their faces. Even the ones that get snappy towards the end, I can't blame them, since, if I was in their paws, i'd have nailed someone by then.

We get forced to tourture these poor dogs for hours because some !$&# couldn't be bothered to pick up a comb.

I've always wondered:  how does that whole "dogs will suffer if not groomed" thing work out?  What do they do if they're feral in the wild?

[BlueStarLizzard]

I've always wondered:  how does that whole "dogs will suffer if not groomed" thing work out?  What do they do if they're feral in the wild?

Well, the mini poodle that was literally matted together died of reinel failure since she was unable to walk to her water bowl.

I have pulled nails out of pads, since they grew all the way around and grew back in.

Maggots have been found while shaving out matted rear ends because the dog basically defecated into a matt and the poop never made it to the ground.

we have shaved dogs with seriously matted coats and found infected wounds that nobody knew about, since you couldn't get to it through the coat although its more commen to find major skin problems.

Shall I go on?

[Balog]

To answer the actual question, wild dogs don't have coats that require grooming. Ferals dogs with high maintenance coats probably get infections and die.

[drewtam]

My boxer's hair-fur is 1/2" long, naturally. The only grooming he requires is an occasional bath and daily scratching behind the ear.

[roo_ster]

We run with German SHORT Haired Pointers and Dobies for many reasons, grooming being just one.

[Pharmacology]

Well, the mini poodle that was literally matted together died of reinel failure since she was unable to walk to her water bowl.
I have pulled nails out of pads, since they grew all the way around and grew back in.
Maggots have been found while shaving out matted rear ends because the dog basically defecated into a matt and the poop never made it to the ground.
we have shaved dogs with seriously matted coats and found infected wounds that nobody knew about, since you couldn't get to it through the coat although its more commen to find major skin problems.

Shall I go on?

I understand the basic pathophysiology, but Balog answered my question. Thanks anyway

[never_retreat]

The Tervuren is a herding dog, so all I see is a bigger version of a border collie.
Herding dogs are out for me. Although it is fun at my parents to tell the sheltie to get the kitties and he rounds them up.
In my original post no dogs that have to be professionally groomed.
I've got time to find something, were waiting till fall/winter till our existing dog is a bit older.
People that neglect dogs should be shot IMO.
I have nothing against muts but you can have just as many problems as pure breeds. What you have to avoid are over breed dogs.
Someone posted a pic of a dobie, I think there an insurance no no. I have to dig ours out and look, I know pits and rotties are on the list.
I came home tonight to our friends new pup in the house. Old English, Its going to be big. 8 weeks in this pic the golden is ours.

[Balog]

Tervuren's are very similar to GSD's, in my understanding.

[never_retreat]

Here is the dog I'm leaning towards.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/slovenskycuvac.htm

[280plus]

Someone posted a pic of a dobie, I think there an insurance no no. I have to dig ours out and look, I know pits and rotties are on the list.

Just one more reason I love insurance companies so much. Meanwhile, per my brother's experience, if any breed of dog so much as nips someone and they are A-holes they can sue your HO insurance, the HO Insurance will pay up without a fight and then they will cancel you. Funny they don't mention Dalmations on their list. Dalmations are one of the top dogs in terms of biting but the whole Disneyfied perception of them has spared them from the no-no list. Dalmations were bred for crowd control at fires. Their job was to keep the crowd back. They nip, they nip HARD and it HURTS! Brother's dog liked to nip you on the ass when you were leaving. Took me one time to learn to BACK out the door when it was time to go. Some roomate's girlfriend got it, didn't even break the skin. She got $16,000.  

[BlueStarLizzard]

Here is the dog I'm leaning towards.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/slovenskycuvac.htm

Related to anatolians....

Sure you don't just want an anatolian? 

[CNYCacher]

In general terms I want a dog who is going to be protective of his family in and out of the house, but knows the difference between house guests and intruders.  Must warn me if something is Not Right. Must be good with babies and children, and that includes getting pulled on, climbed on, chased etc.  We live in a kind of sub-urban area.  We have a back yard but not acres to run around in.  There are plenty of places to walk though, and large parks close by.  Wilderness is close enough.  Also must be obedient and trainable; I tend to expect more of dogs than most people I guess.  For example, my brother-in-law's Chocolate Lab is lazy and spoiled.  He pulls when being taken out for a walk, unless I am walking him, he knows not to do that.  Back to my future dog: must be a good companion on outdoorsy-type stuff; hikes and whatnot.  Should be able to carry his own stuff if we go on a long hike. I prefer larger dogs.  Must always be loving to my family, growl at creepers, oh and never die.