How does Firefly stack up?

[Perd Hapley]

How does Firefly compare to some of the more popular TV/film sci-fi franchises? Is it the best? Second-best? Comfortably in the top ten?

I was just watching Blade Runner, and noticing how Firefly/Serenity had borrowed certain elements from it. I'm not sure which I like better. Without reading the book, there isn't as much of BR to dig into. But if there were more to BR (if it had been adapted for a short-lived TV show of fourteen episodes) I think I might get to liking it more than Firefly. 

I guess I'll have to read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? now.

[Scout26]

You're just asking to be put before the mast and then flogged aren't ya ?!?!?!

[Perd Hapley]

So you're putting Firefly in first place, then? 

[seeker_two]

That's an interesting question. First off, I wouldn't compare it to any major cinema-released movies...so STAR WARS is right out.

Compared to the TV shows, I'd put it neck-&-neck with BABYLON 5...which is the top of my list. It far surpasses the original STAR TREK series, which is my #2. Everything else falls far behind....esp. the newer STAR TREK series. nu-BATTLESTAR GALACTICA is dead last.

IMHO, of course.....

[HankB]

I put B5 a nose ahead of Firefly, but that may be only because of its longer run.

Next, I'd probably put Stargate SG-1 and the spinoff Stargate Atlantis (but not the current Stargate: Universe)

Star Trek DS9 had a few gritty story arcs during its run, but for the most part the story lines in various Star Trek series were sanitized so as to be suitable for 12 year olds. And the political correctness that infected Voyager was most annoying.

Actually, I liked the old Darrin McGavin series Kolchak: The Night Stalker.  (If you missed the recent remake, count yourself lucky.)

The X-Files started out OK, but eventually got weird and borderline incoherent.

BSG? I characterize it as unrealized potential. Week after week of overacting on the part of dysfunctional characters got tiresome real fast.

Farscape was just . . . too . . . odd.

[Ben]

I also see Firefly and B5 as neck and neck. If, as Hank said, there were more Firefly episodes I'm guessing Firefly would pull out front.

Next for me is Star Trek TOS, mostly because I grew up with it. TNG, while it had some good episodes, was just overall too preachy and social for me. It always bugged me that every time Worf wanted to fire a photon torpedo or something, everyone on the bridge would roll their eyes.

I really liked Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis. I found them to be good, fun, escapist Science Fiction. I've sorta been watching Universe, but I find myself fast-forwarding through a good portion of each episode. They just do too many stupid things.

BSG (the new one) had a few good episodes, but there was way too much focus on the psychological and social problems of all the characters to suit my taste.

[AZRedhawk44]

Babylon five... gawd, what tripe.  One of the worst shows ever to disgrace the sci-fi genre.

I tried watching one episode of it several times back when it was on-air, and it was just awful.  You guys convinced me to give it another try for some reason... and it was STILL awful.


Staying in TV-land... I'd rank my top 5 sci-fi franchises as:
1.  Battlestar Galactica (new series)
2.  Firefly
3.  V (new series)
4.  Star Trek (original)
5.  Stargate SG-1


The new era of sci-fi shows (not necessarily "sy-fy" shows) are worlds better than their 80's counterparts.  Much more complexity in the plots, better special effects, better acting and scripts.

Why is Firefly in position 2, behind BSG?

There were a few episodes that felt like they were done on cardboard sets and don't quite immerse my imagination the way that the others do.  BSG doesn't have that problem, for me.

A second season of Firefly would have enjoyed higher prop budgets and a bit more set decoration time to avoid that issue.

[HankB]

Babylon five... gawd, what tripe.   . . . Staying in TV-land... I'd rank my top 5 sci-fi franchises as:  1.  Battlestar Galactica (new series)

Persons who think highly of BSG ought not refer to anything else as "tripe."     

A good scene from B5:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DfQcHMYLY

[makattak]

Babylon five... gawd, what tripe.  One of the worst shows ever to disgrace the sci-fi genre.

I tried watching one episode of it several times back when it was on-air, and it was just awful.  You guys convinced me to give it another try for some reason... and it was STILL awful.


Staying in TV-land... I'd rank my top 5 sci-fi franchises as:
1.  Battlestar Galactica (new series)
2.  Firefly
3.  V (new series)
4.  Star Trek (original)
5.  Stargate SG-1


The new era of sci-fi shows (not necessarily "sy-fy" shows) are worlds better than their 80's counterparts.  Much more complexity in the plots, better special effects, better acting and scripts.

Why is Firefly in position 2, behind BSG?

There were a few episodes that felt like they were done on cardboard sets and don't quite immerse my imagination the way that the others do.  BSG doesn't have that problem, for me.

A second season of Firefly would have enjoyed higher prop budgets and a bit more set decoration time to avoid that issue.

Wow, Battlestarlet'sbepreachyabouttheIraqwarGalactica is number 1?

And you don't like Babylon 5?

I think you must not like actual science fiction.

I have a hard time rating Firefly. It's one season is in the running for the greatest season of any sci-fi series.

I don't think it's fair to compare one stellar season to an entirety of a series, though. Heck, after one season, Enterprise looked like an interesting series... and that changed quickly. For the worse. MUCH worse.

Stargate SG-1 just for longevity deserves consideration. Its plots were interesting even to the end of the series, even if they had to keep upping the power of the "unstoppable" enemies.

I love ST:TNG, but it was REALLY stretching for plots the last season.

X-files is much the same, but I need to substitute in "last few seasons".

[AZRedhawk44]

A good scene from B5:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DfQcHMYLY

I can't get over the feeling that I'm watching something of BBC-quality.  Even that scene.

[CSM Kersh]

On my Tripe List are

• Caprica 
• BSG both old and new
• V both old and new

Put Firefly and it sequel, Serinity. near or the top of the good series.

Fistful, do read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I liked the old Darrin McGavin series Kolchak: The Night Stalker.

ouch  you just dated yourself    and me     i liked that one too

[Harold Tuttle]

well, its no Brisco County Junior

[Angel Eyes]

Battlestarlet'sbepreachyabouttheIraqwarGalactica

Only the New Caprica story arc fits that description.  The rest of the series touched on a variety of topics, including the role of religion in society, maintaining one's humanity in the face of catastrophe, and how large-scale acts of terrorism (9/11 especially) have affected us.

Ron Moore's BSG deserves consideration for the sheer ambition and scope to the story: the destiny of the human race.  It was not perfect by any means: some plot lines were left unresolved, certain devices such as Baltar's Cylon detector were simply forgotten when they were no longer germane to the plot, the series was largely humorless, and the final episode was, for many, unsatisfying.  That said, the series as a whole stands as one of the best in series television.

Babylon 5 broke new ground by incorporating a series-length story arc.  Later series like Moore's BSG, Firefly, and others built on that achievement.  IMO, B5 suffered from a small budget and somewhat corny dialogue.

(I never watched Stargate or V, so I have no comment on them).

[Ben]

IMO, B5 suffered from a small budget and somewhat corny dialogue.

Also that like Firefly, it was mauled by the powers that be on the networks. Bounced around in timeslots, moved to a couple (three?) different networks, and then they were unsure of getting the last year of the five year arc in, so they had to make a just-in-case "sorta" ending in year four, which left year five a little weak. They still managed to get a nice final episode in. "In the Beginning" was also a great post-series movie.

[HankB]

Rev. 1 of my SciFi TV Tripe List - numbered, but not in any particular order:

1. Anything on SyFy channel involving giant CGI monsters - including snakes (lots of giant snake movies there),  megasharks, giant piranahs, a sharktopus, etc.
2. Dr. Who (No offense to fans, but I never took to this show. Maybe it was just too British.)
3. Space: 1999
4. UFO (Another British import)
5. BSG (new series)
6. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea
7. Andromeda (another show with unrealized potential)
8. Quantum Leap
9. Lost (mega, MEGA tripe!)
10. Sliders

I was going to add Lost in Space, but it WAS meant to be a kid's show, after all.

[Tallpine]

Considering that I don't particularly like SF at all, Firefly ranks pretty dang high just to even get me to watch it and like it.   

[AJ Dual]

Babylon five... gawd, what tripe.  One of the worst shows ever to disgrace the sci-fi genre.

Babylon Five was the absolute best Sci-Fi story-arc, the best writing, and had some of the better aliens ever put to screen.

However..

It had the worst cartoony CGI ever. They hit a really bad spot in the CGI capability curve. Way too bright and day glow color schemes.
Interior set design was like a bad combination of Buck Rogers, the original BSG, and Miami Vice.
Costume design wasn't that much better.
Acting was often wooden and/or just plain BAD and never got better. (Andreas Katsulas, Peter Jurasik, and Mira Furlan excepted)

The best Sci-Fi series EVER would have:

Story Arc Of Babylon 5.
Acting and "grittiness" of the new BSG.
Aliens of Farscape.
Politics, Witty Banter, and Dialog of Firefly.
Gunfights of Stargate.
The SFX budget of Paramount/Star Trek franchises.
(oh, and at least some lip-service to Vacuum/Newtonian motion in space/dogfights, and silence in space, like the new BSG and B5 had at times)

Rev. 1 of my SciFi TV Tripe List - numbered, but not in any particular order:

1. Anything on SyFy channel involving giant CGI monsters - including snakes (lots of giant snake movies there),  megasharks, giant piranahs, a sharktopus, etc.
2. Dr. Who (No offense to fans, but I never took to this show. Maybe it was just too British.)
3. Space: 1999
4. UFO (Another British import)
5. BSG (new series)
6. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea
7. Andromeda (another show with unrealized potential)
8. Quantum Leap
9. Lost (mega, MEGA tripe!)
10. Sliders

I was going to add Lost in Space, but it WAS meant to be a kid's show, after all.

I think the premise of Space:1999 was unmitigated crap. That nuclear waste on the moon could explode with sufficient force (anything THAT hot or good, we'd still be USING IT, even if it didn't defy physics), to propel it out of the Solar system at a high enough velocity that they'd visit a new star system/planet every few weeks, or months (their time) was rediculous, even from needed suspension of disbelief.

However, the actual LOOK of the show, in terms of sets and hardware, props, and the Eagle transporter spacecraft and the model-work was AMAZING.

[erictank]

I enjoyed the couple of self-contained B5 TV movies I saw.  The few attempts I made to watch the series left me stone-cold.  As near as I can tell, in order to really get into it, you need to watch it from the beginning of the series - and I could never catch the beginning.

BSG rocked.  Although I'll admit that sometimes the political commentary was... less than subtle (if by subtle you mean 2x4-to-the-head).

I enjoyed TNG, DS9, even Voyager (at least about half the time), despite their typically-Pollyanna views of things.

TOS was a classic, despite its flaws.

Firefly - frakking Fox.  Take a fantastic show, jumble it all around, put a multi-month break in after showing the first few eps, and don't even show all the episodes you paid for before pulling it from your lineup?

And you're still showing freaking FAMILY GUY?!?    Hell, Human Target has had a longer run on Fox than Firefly got, and it's a FAR worse show!

[TommyGunn]

I liked the old Darrin McGavin series Kolchak: The Night Stalker.

ouch  you just dated yourself    and me     i liked that one too

Liked this.  It was a staple my first year in college ...now I have the DVD set.

Rev. 1 of my SciFi TV Tripe List - numbered, but not in any particular order:

1. Anything on SyFy channel involving giant CGI monsters - including snakes (lots of giant snake movies there),  megasharks, giant piranahs, a sharktopus, etc.
2. Dr. Who (No offense to fans, but I never took to this show. Maybe it was just too British.)
3. Space: 1999
4. UFO (Another British import)
5. BSG (new series)
6. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea
7. Andromeda (another show with unrealized potential)
8. Quantum Leap
9. Lost (mega, MEGA tripe!)
10. Sliders

I was going to add Lost in Space, but it WAS meant to be a kid's show, after all.

UFO was a show I didn't like when it first aired.  I've seen it recently and it has some pretty decent and sophisticated storylines in it ....how Stryker and his wife became estranged.... political &/ budget problems...

Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea is a show I enjoyed as a kid.  The first year was B&W and that year is pretty decent  and some of the earlier color shows were good but it got too whacky when it descended into a "monster-of-the-week"  show.  According to actor David Hedison, he pleaded with with the producers to get better stories or it would kill the show.  They didn't.... and theye killed the show.


I started out watching LOST  but after a couple of seasons they ... "lost" me   .  'Bout the time they discovered the second island, I was wishing I'd spent the time watching reruns of Gilligan's Island and I escaped.

Liked the more recent incarnation of Dr. Who but, I can take it or leave it... meh.
What the ***** is this ...."FIREFLY" thing? ? ? ? ?  

[CSM Kersh]

Dr who lost its appeal when Tom Baker, the 4th doctor, was replaced.  I've watched an episode of 2 this years and just can't get into it.

Current Sci Fi consists of Warehouse 13 which has gone down hill this past year.  Fringe seems to be teetering.  Eureka doesn't have it.  Sara Conner Chronicles with Summer Glau aka River from Firefly as the Termenator was pretty good but was killed without an ending. Stargate Universe is getting weak. 

[BlueStarLizzard]

I loved the sarah conner cronicles, very disapointed with the abrupt ending.

Dollhouse (aka whedons return to fox) could have been great. However, between Fox's issues and whedons case of post tramtic series cancellation stress, it failed to live up to potential. I do like how whedon (knowing the end was near) just went ahead and jumped to the conclusion of saving the post apocolyptic world in time for the end of his second season.

in a perfect world, they would habe just let him have firefly. In a halfway decent world, they could have let him have Dollhouse. It may not have been the best, but its better then &$#@& american idol.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I would say Firefly, Farscape, and BSG are the best TV sci fi in recent memory.  These all had good stories, good acting, good writing, a deeply involving fantasy world, and they were a treat to look at.  They were all extremely fun to watch and follow along with.  

If I had to pick just one, I'd probably say that Farscape is the single best, but it's pretty close.

I like B5, but I think it's overrated.  It had consistently mediocre production quality, acting, and dialog/writing.  Still, it was entertaining and kept me watching.  Good story.

Ditto for the various Stargate versions, entertaining but not exceptional in any way.

Never had any interest in the recent Star Trek jobs. 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Dr who lost its appeal when Tom Baker, the 4th doctor, was replaced.  I've watched an episode of 2 this years and just can't get into it.

Current Sci Fi consists of Warehouse 13 which has gone down hill this past year.  Fringe seems to be teetering.  Eureka doesn't have it.  Sara Conner Chronicles with Summer Glau aka River from Firefly as the Termenator was pretty good but was killed without an ending. Stargate Universe is getting weak. 

Stargate Universe isn't just weak, it's been canceled.  Which is a shame.  They'll air the remaining new they've produced, but that's the last of it.

I liked the Sara Conner Chronicles, and wished it had continues.  I'd take new Terminator mvies, too, something that continues to play out in that particular fantasy world.  The Christian Bale Terminator movie was entertaining, but it didn't do much to advance the overall Terminator story line.

[AJ Dual]

I could never get into Dr. Who very much.

The entire premise was designed around the fact of BBC/socialist television, and cobbling together a story/premise based on whatever leftover props were laying around.

And that's why the TARDIS is a police phone box. Not that American Sci Fi didn't have that too in some parts. The entire ST TOS invention of the transporter was due to the fact Desilu/NBC would not give Roddenberry enough money for Christmas lights and plywood to make a shuttle-craft until the next season. So they had to settle for an optical composite, and a fish tank full of water and craft-store glitter lit by a klieg light.

But hell, at least they still had the cash for the Enterprise sets and models. They didn't say, "Here, due to the budget you've got this old tractor, go make that be your space ship... or time machine..." 

Don't get me wrong, it's damn creative given what Dr. Who had to work with. It's just the stink of stingy budgets, committees, and  socialisim is just so dang strong in it's roots. You can just hear "Here's 500 Pounds, two cameras, and you can have anything in the old prop warehouse you want. Go make a 'space show' for the kids..."

Even if it's NOT the actual origin story of Dr. Who (To be fair, I read it once, but I haven't looked lately), it's the feeling I get, even when the show started to actually get a budget.