Author Topic: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us  (Read 54937 times)

Levant

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2011, 09:31:38 PM »
Now that we are attacking, we need to go all the way and finish it.  

Like in Iraq?  Or Afghanistan?  Or Vietnam?  Or Korea?  Other than Grenada, we haven't "finished" anything in a very long time.  Every time we get involved in these things, the world and the US become less safe.


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MicroBalrog

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2011, 09:53:44 PM »
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A good thing, how?  It makes the world safer?  Makes the Mid-East more stable?  Or just because it's the moral thing to do?  Well, you can't claim morality in this short term situation while completely ignoring genocide in other places.

So your argument is, because America doesn't have military force great enough to completely overrun all the middle eastern crapholes at ones, you shouldn't even try?

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Like in Iraq?

Cough. America is winning Iraq by any kind of military measure.

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Korea

Do explain how Korea made the US less safe.

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Well, yes we are defeating freedom but we're not doing anything to reduce terrorism.

What are your statistics for that? How many terrorist attacks have been committed against Western or pro-Western targets in 2010 as compared to 2006? 2005? 

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Fitz

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2011, 10:23:00 PM »
The only thing that bothers me is the hypocrisy.

Bush removes saddam. "ZOMGILLEGALWESHOULDNTBEREMOVINGDICTATORSITSNOTOURJOB"

Obama strikes Libya. No problems.
Fitz

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2011, 10:29:15 PM »
Like in Iraq?  Or Afghanistan?  Or Vietnam?  Or Korea?  Other than Grenada, we haven't "finished" anything in a very long time. 




Iraq is well on it's way to home rule.  More than likely you are too young to remember but it took years of rebuilding before Germany and Japan were truly self sufficient.  Afghanistan, well, we are still working on that one.  Obama, when running for office said that was where we should be focusing our efforts.  Vietnam, well the politicians lost heart and hamstrung the military, causing us to fail.  Korea, was the UN mandate ever to march to the Chinese border? We were to defend the South Koreans.  
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Every time we get involved in these things, the world and the US become less safe.

Really, have we been attacked since 9/11?  The middle eastern only understands and respects the big stick.  You hit them until they know you mean business.  
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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2011, 10:40:23 PM »
The only thing that bothers me is the hypocrisy.

Bush removes saddam. "ZOMGILLEGALWESHOULDNTBEREMOVINGDICTATORSITSNOTOURJOB"

Obama strikes Libya. No problems.

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Senator Barack Obama, December 20, 2007, “The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.”

you forgot Clinton in the Bosnia/Croat thing. ... but you're correct if a Dem attacks another country its all good/needed to be done sooner if a Repub attacks then its an unprovoked attack illegal war for OIL!
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2011, 10:44:01 PM »
'Bout damn time.  The world will be a better place without Ghadafi.  Let's hope our dithering President hasn't squandered this golden opportunity by delaying too long.

Thankfully there are stronger men in France and England willing to hold Barry's feet to the fire.  God help us these next two years, and let's hope we get some leadership back into the White House in 2012.

Fitz

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2011, 10:45:48 PM »
The world will be a better place without Ghadafi.  Let's hope our dithering President hasn't squandered this golden opportunity by delaying too long.

Thankfully there are stronger men in France and England willing to hold Barry's feet to the fire.  God help us these next two years, and let's hope we get some leadership back into the White House in 2012.

I agree he's a *expletive deleted*che.  I just hate that this *expletive deleted*it is "OK" when a dem does it, and evil when a republican does it.

I'm all for kicking Libya's ass. If we sent ground troops in tomorrow i'd volunteer immediately.

The asskicking doesn't bother me... the hypocrisy does.
Fitz

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French G.

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2011, 10:55:00 PM »
The only thing that bothers me is the hypocrisy.

Bush removes saddam. "ZOMGILLEGALWESHOULDNTBEREMOVINGDICTATORSITSNOTOURJOB"

Obama strikes Libya. No problems.

Very nice very true.

A little incomplete though. Venturing outside of Libya it's like the guy has a book called My 100 most favoritist dumbest plays by G.W. Bush and yet no one calls him on it from his own camp. I mean I'm glad he closed Gitmo and all but eventually he's got to stand up and be his own President.
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I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Fitz

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2011, 10:56:36 PM »
correct me if I'm wrong but he didn't close gitmo 
Fitz

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TommyGunn

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2011, 11:25:07 PM »
It is exactly the moral equivalent.  Hitler is not.  Hitler invaded other countries.  We didn't fight Hitler because he was killing Jews.  We attacked him because he was attacking allies.  Which ally did Gaddafi attack?  We're not fighting Gaddafi because he's killing his people.  We didn't care at all about genocide in Darfur.  There have been plenty of opportunities for the US to use its military might to prevent government genocide and we have not taken any of them.  This is about US financial interests alone.

Where did I say Gaddafi had "attacked" anyone outside of his own country?  Stop moving goal posts all around. We don't have to "care" about Darfur as some bizarre prerequisite to stopping Gaddafi from bombing his own people.
And we don't get oil from Libya, but some parts of europe do, so it is not about "our" financial interests, atleast so far as oil is concerned.



Nice parlor trick.  I know the quote.  That situation is not this situation.  Gaddafi has not been attacking his citizens until we encouraged the Egyptians which encouraged the Libyans.

So England, France and Italy can't help prevent Gaddafi from attacking his own people because "we encouraged the Egyptians"??   :facepalm:  How does THAT justify what Gaddafi is doing -- and if IT DOESN'T justify it, then why SHOULDN'T Gaddafi be stopped? 

I despise Gaddafi as much as any American might but the US cannot go around destroying civilizations to ensure our access to the world's oil.  Look at Iraq.  Has it worked out well for us to overthrow a Mid-Eastern dictator?  Is the world a safer place? Are we winning the war on freedom otherwise known as the war on terror?  Well, yes we are defeating freedom but we're not doing anything to reduce terrorism.

A good thing, how?  It makes the world safer?  Makes the Mid-East more stable?  Or just because it's the moral thing to do?  Well, you can't claim morality in this short term situation while completely ignoring genocide in other places.
We aare not destroying civilizations.  You impute far too much power to us, and we're only just nominally in charge of what is happening in Libya.  We're not "defeating" freedom.  Thats utter BS from out of the heart of Moveon.com.
If we don't settle what's going on in Iraq, we may very well leave the place more unstable than it is -- and that region has never been really stable in a looong time. " ... you can't claim morality in this short term situation while completely ignoring genocide in other places." ???  So I take it you're saying that unless we can make the whole world genocide free we can't stop any genocide or killings anywhere?   You have GOT to be kidding me.
You don't even want to stop this "genocide."  You want the world to allow it to continue unabated.  What the *****  kind of "morality" is that?
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French G.

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2011, 12:06:59 AM »
correct me if I'm wrong but he didn't close gitmo 

I know he didn't.  =D
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Jamie B

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2011, 12:26:41 AM »
Correct that we have no business in Libya.

If our Arab allies have such a need for us to assist, they can immediately begin to pump more oil first.

What have all of our 'allies' done for us lately? Not much.

There are many bad people / countries in the world. It is not our job to take them on.

We cannot afford the cost, nor the loss of American lives.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2011, 12:38:06 AM »
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The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us

Toppling a regime does not qualify as attacking a country. Get your facts straight.

There is no moral need to wait for the other guy to hit first. Get your morality straight.

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Bogie

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2011, 01:13:22 AM »
Obama has had his Bay of Pigs moment, like another Democrat from about 50 years ago... Hopefully his encouragement, and subsequent lack of activity, will be remembered by historians. The "rebels," including women and children, have racked up an estimated 15,000+ dead because of this... As great a tragedy, if not greater, than what is happening in Japan.
 
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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2011, 01:54:58 AM »

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2011, 04:33:50 AM »
I'll refrain from making any comments other then I've been waiting a long time for Kh...Qa....Ghadfadi to get his.  Since that SOB damn near killed me. 

And from what I understand we simply degraded his Air Defenses so that we (and I mean the Arab world, Europe and the UN, dragging us along) can impose a no-fly zone so that things can be sorted out mano-a-mano on the ground.


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griz

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2011, 08:39:10 AM »
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It's not at all clear to me that the rebels/revolutionaries/whatever are going to be an improvement. Do we REALLY want a Moslem Brotherhood/Al Qaeda/Taliban government to form in Libya?

I think this is an important point that is easily overlooed.  Just because the rebels and the US share a common opponet (Ghadfadi) doesn't mean we have the same goals or intrests.

As to the question of defending American interests, realistically that means oil in that area.  Can anyone point out to me how our last few adventures over there has lead to stability or safety of the oil supply?
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Jamie B

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2011, 08:50:05 AM »
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Can anyone point out to me how our last few adventures over there has lead to stability or safety of the oil supply?
What!?

You mean that gasoline prices in the US have not dropped since we saved Kuwait? No kidding.

Saudi Arabia, our bestest buddy Arab ally, has not done much for us lately.....

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Jamisjockey

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2011, 09:24:21 AM »


Get your head screwed on straight.  Or is the rust preventing that?  .





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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2011, 10:01:33 AM »
I think this is an important point that is easily overlooed.  Just because the rebels and the US share a common opponet (Ghadfadi) doesn't mean we have the same goals or intrests.
Who says we need to share common goals?

Ghadafi needs to go.  That's our goal and that's what we're working to bring about. 

Sure, we don't know for certain that his replacement will be better.  But if Ghadafi goes, we know there's at least a good possibility of improvement.  We know that if Ghadafi stays there will never be any improvement.

If all it costs to oust Ghadafi is some cruise missiles and jet fuel, then this is one of the greatest bargains in the history of international conflict.

griz

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2011, 10:11:45 AM »
Who says we need to share common goals?

I'll be more blunt, we may be assisting anti-American groups to take over a country.  Sounds like a bad idea to me.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2011, 10:12:34 AM »
I'll be more blunt, we may be assisting anti-American groups to take over a country.  Sounds like a bad idea to me.

Whereas Qhaddafi is known as a reliable ally of the United States.
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mtnbkr

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2011, 10:27:39 AM »
Kim Jong Il needs to go.  He starves and tortures his citizens, possibly sells nuke secrets to our enemies, and are belligerents on a national scale.  When do we attack? :D

Oh, right, they have nukes and China.

Chris

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2011, 10:28:24 AM »
Kim Jong Il needs to go.  He starves and tortures his citizens, possibly sells nuke secrets to our enemies, and are belligerents on a national scale.  When do we attack? :D

Oh, right, they have nukes and China.

Chris

And no oil.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: The US attacks yet another country that has not attacked us
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2011, 10:51:25 AM »
And China holds a ton of our debt, so we can't put the screws to them.

If they didn't have us by the financial nuts, don't you think the State Department wouldn't be applying pressure for China to get the little guy to toe the line?