Author Topic: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal  (Read 29090 times)

Boomhauer

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #75 on: March 22, 2011, 01:31:08 PM »
Really? Who is saying that?

We're wondering why, while we're all working on C, your side suddenly shouts "AND KEEP THE HECK AWAY FROM B, YOU BIBLE THUMPERS!!!"

That makes us take a step back and wonder what your real intentions are.

Because IT NEVER F***ING FAILS that the GOP gets all wrapped around the axle about gays and abortion and such. Sooner or later, the politicritters open their big mouths and start worrying about *expletive deleted*it that's none of their damn business instead of actually fixing the country. It's a pattern that has repeated itself time and again.







 

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Balog

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2011, 01:32:03 PM »
There has been quite a lot of that, actually.  Gay marriage comes to mind.  Anti-abortion legislation also.  Much of the anti-illegal-immigration policy.  Church and state issues...
It goes both ways, mak, and far more of this trash comes from the social conservatives than form the others.  Most social conservatives will happily stab a fiscal conservative in the back for not caring enough about the social issues.

If you believe abortion is the genocidal slaughter of tens of millions of the innocent, you'd probably think it's pretty goddamn important. It's amusing how eager you are to spend money and lives on Libya, but want to back burner something far worse.

As for "supporting the small cuts" I do support them. I don't see GOP cutting anything, just slowing the rate of growth. It's rather like the Dems screaming about "cutting X entitlement program" when the R's propose slowing it's increase, only in reverse. Just as dishonest.

And speaking of triage, when the patient has a sucking chest wound a man putting a band-aid on it as though he's accomplishing something is pathetic, not realistic.
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Balog

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #77 on: March 22, 2011, 01:39:55 PM »
Saying "I don't care about X social issue, therefore it isn't important" doesn't make it so.
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makattak

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #78 on: March 22, 2011, 01:44:31 PM »
Because IT NEVER F***ING FAILS that the GOP gets all wrapped around the axle about gays and abortion and such. Sooner or later, the politicritters open their big mouths and start worrying about *expletive deleted* that's none of their damn business instead of actually fixing the country. It's a pattern that has repeated itself time and again.


So, what you really want is for the GOP to ignore social conservatives concerns completely. Not "call a truce" for a time, but stop worrying about our society and save the government while the society falls apart.

Personally, I think our society is more important than our government, but as the collapse of the latter is more imminent than the collapse of the former, I'm focused on that. I wish those of you who claim to be concerned about ONLY the out of control spending would actually act like the spending is what you're concerned about and not more concerned about shutting up social conservatives.
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longeyes

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2011, 02:06:33 PM »
Social values and the economy (deficits) are inseparable.

In fact...there is no way we are going to solve our current economic problems solely by economic means.  Getting to the heart of the matter, really, will mean rollbacks and re-adjustments that require new assumptions about how we live together.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #80 on: March 22, 2011, 02:17:40 PM »
Weird, that's my feelings every time a R majority takes place in Congress, and fails to deliver.
Let's see.  Off the top of my head, in no particular order:

Multiple tax cuts
Demise of the AWB
Balanced budget
Welfare reform
Partial birth abortion ban
DOMA (these last two are specifically for Mak)
Every item on the contract with America
Budget cuts (underway now)

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #81 on: March 22, 2011, 02:19:59 PM »
If you believe abortion is the genocidal slaughter of tens of millions of the innocent, you'd probably think it's pretty goddamn important. It's amusing how eager you are to spend money and lives on Libya, but want to back burner something far worse.
If there was a  credible plan for "doing something" about abortion, then I'd be fully behind it. Given the legal situation, I'm not sure what can be done short of a constitutional amendment, which we don't have the clout to pass.  All we can really do is nibble around the edges a bit, which we've done.

As for "supporting the small cuts" I do support them. I don't see GOP cutting anything, just slowing the rate of growth. It's rather like the Dems screaming about "cutting X entitlement program" when the R's propose slowing it's increase, only in reverse. Just as dishonest.

And speaking of triage, when the patient has a sucking chest wound a man putting a band-aid on it as though he's accomplishing something is pathetic, not realistic.
Again with the myth that we need a massive all-at-once solution...

roo_ster

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #82 on: March 22, 2011, 02:25:25 PM »
The abortion/gayzors social issue people tend to come from the Bible Belt, which also has a long and studied history of backing unions and supporting all sorts of fun social welfare programs.  

Not exactly shoring up your credibility.  Long and studied history of backing unions in the Bible Belt, eh?  Are we talking America or some fictional country where all the right to work states are in the rust belt?

Regards,

roo_ster

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roo_ster

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #83 on: March 22, 2011, 02:30:04 PM »
One reason why the socially liberal/fiscally conservative GOP types lose support is because they have more in common with the Tooth Fairy than reality.

Oddly enough, the best issue correlation to be found with fiscal conservatism is social conservatism.  The solibs/ficons almost invariably disappoint and end up spending like a drunk sailor.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #84 on: March 22, 2011, 02:59:50 PM »
Never mind.  I'm not in the mood for this crap.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 03:11:27 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

charby

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #85 on: March 22, 2011, 04:14:11 PM »
Never mind.  I'm not in the mood for this crap.

ditto. Most people can't see the forest for the trees. Some don't even read/understand history and will be doomed to repeat it.
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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #86 on: March 22, 2011, 04:37:27 PM »
Quote
This what I don't understand.  How can people support the impossible goal of cutting by $500b, but oppose a realistic goal of cutting $100b?

As for $100b not doing anything, that's just silly.  $100b is still a lot of money.  If we can cut $100b a year for a few years, and recover from the recession, we'll be back on a sustainable financial footing in 4 or 5 years. 
Perhaps I am misunderstanding your numbers earlier, but it appeared that Obama wanted a budget of X+200b. Boehner and co want to cut that budget by 100b, leaving a net budget of X+100b. Which is not a real cut, but a Washington Cut (real cuts involve spending less than the year before). If we keep cutting 100b and they keep raising it 200b, we'll keep getting worse off.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #87 on: March 22, 2011, 04:42:24 PM »
Perhaps I am misunderstanding your numbers earlier, but it appeared that Obama wanted a budget of X+200b. Boehner and co want to cut that budget by 100b, leaving a net budget of X+100b. Which is not a real cut, but a Washington Cut (real cuts involve spending less than the year before). If we keep cutting 100b and they keep raising it 200b, we'll keep getting worse off.

Buuuuurrrn him!  The Unbeliever sheds his light of deception upon the blind masses!  Burrrrrrn him!

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #88 on: March 22, 2011, 05:55:23 PM »
Perhaps I am misunderstanding your numbers earlier, but it appeared that Obama wanted a budget of X+200b. Boehner and co want to cut that budget by 100b, leaving a net budget of X+100b. Which is not a real cut, but a Washington Cut (real cuts involve spending less than the year before). If we keep cutting 100b and they keep raising it 200b, we'll keep getting worse off.
Sorry if I was unclear.

It's real cuts, not Washington cuts.   If we take X to be last year's budget, then Barry's proposed-but-never-passed budget would have been X+200b.  The GOP House budget is X-100b.

It's more complicated than that because we're already 40% of the way through the current budget year.  They never passed a budget last year for the upcoming year (aka right now) because Barry and Harry and Nancy were afraid of the debate that would ensue right before the elections.  So for the first few months of the current budget year we were operating under continuing resolutions that fund FedGov at the same rates as last year. 

Back in Feb the GOP House passed a $1.2t budget bill covering the on-budget expenses over the 60% of the fiscal year that remains (many Federal expenditures aren't actually considered part of the budget - social security is the biggest of these).  The GOP bill reduces spending from last year's levels at a 100b per year pace, but since only 60% of the budget year remains, the total cuts within this fiscal year are only $60b.  The full $100b of cuts will not occur until a full year has elapsed.  That bill has stalled in the senate, so we still don't have a real budget for this year. 

Since then, the Republicans have allowed two more continuing resolution budgets, but they've demanded that these provide for spending cuts of $2b per week ($100b per year) from last year's budget.  This was to allow time for the full budget bill to be approved by the Senate and signed by the Prez, but the Democrats have been stalling.  It's unclear whether any further continuing resolutions will be allowed, or if we'll just let the government shut down.  It's no big deal either way, as a shutdown reduces expenses, and so would more continuing resolutions with the $2b/wk cuts.

Clear as mud?

Here are some news articles that might explain the events a bit better:

House GOP budget passed in Feb:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2011/Feb/19/gop_bill_pairs_budget_cuts__regulatory_rollbacks.html

First continuing resolution; 2 week extension that cuts $4b.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/02/the-note-the-two-week-solution-government-shutdown-likely-averted-for-now.html

Second continuing resolution;  3 week extension that cuts $6b.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/17/110622/government-shutdown-averted-for.html

MicroBalrog

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #89 on: March 22, 2011, 11:15:29 PM »
Let me demonstrate why we need a rapid solution:



Can you find the effect of the Contract with America on this graph? Or the effect of anything any Republican did? Any cuts introduced by anybody are just a statistical blip on this.

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charby

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #90 on: March 23, 2011, 12:10:36 AM »
Can you find the effect of the Contract with America on this graph? Or the effect of anything any Republican did? Any cuts introduced by anybody are just a statistical blip on this.



Contract with America or End of the Cold War with the Soviets?
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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #91 on: March 23, 2011, 01:02:09 AM »
Quote
It's real cuts, not Washington cuts.   If we take X to be last year's budget, then Barry's proposed-but-never-passed budget would have been X+200b.  The GOP House budget is X-100b.
Excellent. So I am more cynical than the situation merits, and they are actually attempting to reduce overall spending. Thanks for the explanation.

roo_ster

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #92 on: March 23, 2011, 07:39:10 AM »
Excellent. So I am more cynical than the situation merits, and they are actually attempting to reduce overall spending. Thanks for the explanation.

Difficult to pull off, nowadays...
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 11:21:12 AM by roo_ster »
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roo_ster

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HankB

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #93 on: March 23, 2011, 08:34:25 AM »
There's a lot of good information on the budget at the Heritage Foundation's website here:  http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2010/06/Federal-Spending-by-the-Numbers-2010

A few tidbits:

* Federal spending has grown 62 percent faster than inflation since 2000.
* Since 2000, Medicaid and Food Stamp rolls have expanded by nearly 20 million.
* K-12 education spending has surged 219% since 2000. (That's why US kids are #1 in world academic comparisons, right?)

Boenher's pre-election promise to cut the budget to 2008 levels, excluding TARP/stimulus spending, would cut more than Rand Paul's $500,000,000,000 spending cut proposal. (Boehner's been real quiet about this since the election . . . )
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #94 on: March 23, 2011, 10:00:31 AM »
Let me demonstrate why we need a rapid solution:



Can you find the effect of the Contract with America on this graph? Or the effect of anything any Republican did? Any cuts introduced by anybody are just a statistical blip on this.

The challenge with cutting spending over the long term is that most FedGov spending isn't subject to yearly congressional budgets.  Only a third of the budget is "discretionary" spending that congress can choose to cut from during any given year.  The rest, "mandatory" spending, is allocated based on long-term programs (mostly entitlements) that congress doesn't have under review every year.

Most of the growth in spending is mandatory spending, not so much the discretionary spending that politcritters choose to include or exclude in the annual budget every year.

Any major change in spending is going to have to come out of the mandatory spending, and that's going to require taking on the entitlements.  If someone has a sound plan for that, I'm all ears.  I'm not sure how anyone could do it short of a conservative supermajority or a constitutional amendment pushed through by the states.

Bush took a stab at it after the midterm elections, trying to partially privatize Social Security, but that went nowhere fast.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 10:11:09 AM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

roo_ster

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #95 on: March 23, 2011, 11:23:22 AM »
There's a lot of good information on the budget at the Heritage Foundation's website here:  http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2010/06/Federal-Spending-by-the-Numbers-2010

A few tidbits:

* Federal spending has grown 62 percent faster than inflation since 2000.
* Since 2000, Medicaid and Food Stamp rolls have expanded by nearly 20 million.
* K-12 education spending has surged 219% since 2000. (That's why US kids are #1 in world academic comparisons, right?)

Boenher's pre-election promise to cut the budget to 2008 levels, excluding TARP/stimulus spending, would cut more than Rand Paul's $500,000,000,000 spending cut proposal. (Boehner's been real quiet about this since the election . . . )

Hmm, that is a GOP leadership proposal I can get behind.  Mayhap we can get folk to be a little less quiet and remind The (Weepy) One of his promises?
Regards,

roo_ster

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #96 on: March 23, 2011, 12:06:48 PM »
Hmm, that is a GOP leadership proposal I can get behind.  Mayhap we can get folk to be a little less quiet and remind The (Weepy) One of his promises?
No need to remind him.  The house GOP has been quietly making good on all of their budget promises.  

Recall that the GOP campaign pledge thing stated that the budget should be cut by $100b in the first year, then roll back to 2008 levels thereafter.  We're right on track for that.  

The text of the pledge can be found here.  Budget details are on pages 10 and 11.

Oh, I almost forget.  The House actually passed a budget bill in January (H.Res. 38) that would have immediately returned spending to 2008 levels, skipping right over that $100b in the first year thing.  So Boehner and the boys have actually exceeded their promises.  Alas, this particular budget has as little chance of overcoming Senate Dems and Obama's veto as Rand Paul's bill does.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 12:20:32 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

Stetson

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #97 on: March 24, 2011, 02:42:23 PM »
You notice that there is no talk about reducing Senators and Representatives salaries, benefits and other perks.

 It isn't a lot, and it won't cure anything right now but a drop in the bucket goes towards filling that bucket.

HankB

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #98 on: March 24, 2011, 03:06:35 PM »
You notice that there is no talk about reducing Senators and Representatives salaries, benefits and other perks.

 It isn't a lot, and it won't cure anything right now but a drop in the bucket goes towards filling that bucket.
It's a pity that when the Constitution was written, they didn't include a provision that Federal elected officials and their staffs are paid ONLY when there's a sufficient annual surplus to do so without borrowing . . .
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Rand Paul's 5 Year Budget Proposal
« Reply #99 on: March 30, 2011, 08:07:35 PM »
So you're against "little" cuts?

This what I don't understand.  How can people support the impossible goal of cutting by $500b, but oppose a realistic goal of cutting $100b?

As for $100b not doing anything, that's just silly.  $100b is still a lot of money.  If we can cut $100b a year for a few years, and recover from the recession, we'll be back on a sustainable financial footing in 4 or 5 years. 

A $100b a year isn't a small thing.


And now $33 billion.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2011/03/budget-negotiators-reach-tentative-deal-to-avert-government-shutdown.html
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