Rebel Commander in Libya Fought Against U.S. in Afghanistan

[AZRedhawk44]

If the alternative is the region being rendered into Somalia-like anarchy and bloody tyrants ruling forever, set loose the Tomahawks.

Bloody tyrants in Somalia-like anarchic bungholes lack the technological capability and financial resources to cause harm to us Great Satans over here.

Pan-Arab Caliphates led by a Madhi that inspires billions to strike at the Great Satan can cause some harm.

I'd much rather have the Somalian madness spread across the whole of the Middle East and Northern Africa.

[longeyes]

Barbarians with modern weapons and visas = trouble.  They don't need WMDs to sow serious chaos.

[MicroBalrog]

I'd much rather have the Somalian madness spread across the whole of the Middle East and Northern Africa.

Exactly my point. Better Somalia than Quaddafi-era Libya.

[longeyes]

Anarchists with nasty weapons are less dangerous than totalitarian states with nasty weapons.  I think we can agree on that.  But Somalian mischief and Al-Qaeda terrorism are different, no? Pirates and local warlords are just general human currency; terrorism can be fatal to modern civilized polities.

[MicroBalrog]

Anarchists with nasty weapons are less dangerous than totalitarian states with nasty weapons.  I think we can agree on that.  But Somalian mischief and Al-Qaeda terrorism are different, no? Pirates and local warlords are just general human currency; terrorism can be fatal to modern civilized polities.

Organized terrorism on the Al-Quaeda level requires training camps, facilities, etc. It's easier to blow these up when they're not in a sovereign state. Also, terrorist acts like 9/11 require resources. These require wealth to back them up - and totalitarian states are better at raising this sort of money than Somalia.

Also, terrorism is nasty, but I think you underestimate how resilient modern civilized polities are.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Also, terrorism is nasty, but I think you underestimate how resilient modern civilized polities are.

What does it matter to me if the polity endures after the attack, but me and my whole family die?

In other words, it isn't enough just to protect the state.  We need to protect the people of the state as much, if not more than, the state itself.

There's a lot of talk about "existential threats".  This usually means a threat to the continued existence of the state, and as such it can be misleading.  It misses the point entirely to downgrade a threat to people because it doesn't happen to threaten the state also.

[MicroBalrog]

Let me explain this in a brief manner.

In August 1941, my grandfather and his entire class at the Leningrad Aviation Institute were drafted to form a battalion of troops commanded by a local bureaucrat, and thrown into battle virtually unarmed. Almost the entire battalion perished, but the overall war plan succeeded and the Nazis were stopped from entering Leningrad. This was morally permissible, because the very existence of the nation was at stake. The Nazis were planning to enter the city and butcher its populace or enslave them.

When a nation suffers from an existential, catastrophic threat, the gloves come completely off. In a national emergency, any means are permissible if they secure your population from dying.

We need to establish whether such a threat exists because that colors our evaluation of what needs to be done.

[longeyes]

If Libya wasn't an existential threat before it will be now.  Who thinks a wounded Qaddafi is not a very dangerous Qaddafi?  The man had/has WMDs.  I don't think he's too happy with Obama right now.

[roo_ster]

If Libya wasn't an existential threat before it will be now.  Who thinks a wounded Qaddafi is not a very dangerous Qaddafi?  The man had/has WMDs.  I don't think he's too happy with Obama right now.

We could offer k-boy Obama as a peace offering.  Obama could read K-boy passages from "Dreams from my Father" and tuck him into bed each night.

[Lee]

We keep saying BHO is clueless.  Seems to me everything he does works to advance the fortunes of radical Islamists, the better to promote a pan-Arab Caliphate down the pike.  One by one the leaders who hold the region together (bastards though they may be) are going down, with our official blessing.

It's a possibility...but essentially, the same idea was held decades ago regarding Latin America.  I think everyone should have the right to succeed or fail without a superpower funding the oppressor of the day. 

[longeyes]

Also, terrorism is nasty, but I think you underestimate how resilient modern civilized polities are.

No, I don't, but freelance, small-scale terrorism can be extremely disruptive.  I seem to remember John Muhammed and his sidekick, armed with one rifle, keeping Washington, D.C. back on its heels for quite a few days.  If the kind of terrorism that has plagued Israel were to become commonplace in America I think the impact, on several levels, would be significant. 

[longeyes]

It's a possibility...but essentially, the same idea was held decades ago regarding Latin America.  I think everyone should have the right to succeed or fail without a superpower funding the oppressor of the day.

There are times and places to get involved, and times not to.  We should have learned, from exactly what you say, that meddling isn't always very smart.  In this case I don't believe it's motivated by humanitarian motives, anyway, even though those wouldn't be sufficient in my view to justify military intervention; this is part of Obama's re-election campaign, and if he can help Muslim radicals in the process so much the better.

[MicroBalrog]

If the kind of terrorism that has plagued Israel were to become commonplace in America I think the impact, on several levels, would be significant.

I and my girlfriend lived in Ashdod during operation Cast Lead, when hundreds of MLRS rockets and mortar bombs were fired on the country within days.

Stores were open. Mail arrived. Pizza delivery was on time. If the terrorists want to disrupt my life, they're going to have to try far harder.

[longeyes]

You expect our soccer moms to get to yoga classes with rockets hitting the neighborhood?  i don't.

[longeyes]

More news about World War III...

from Debka File:


I'm guessing this is copywrited material. Plesae provide the link, not copy and pasting the whole article. Thank you.

[MicroBalrog]

Debkafile?

Seriously now?

Why not WND, then?