Raise Debt Limit or TEOTWAWKI - Geithner

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

http://nationaljournal.com/economy/geithner-predicts-double-dip-if-congress-fails-to-lift-debt-ceiling-20110514

Geithner says we'll have a double-dip recession if we don't raise the debt ceiling, and the US defaults on its debt, intimating that if we don't raise the debt ceiling, a default is inevitable. Because we can't be bothered to reduce spending.

[TommyGunn]

Geithner is a *******    We are not going to default, there's enough tax revenue coming in to pay.  Maybe some aspects of govt. will have to be defunded but that isn't so terrible.
Geithner is indulging in Obama administration scare tactics, that's all.



Oh .... he's paid his taxes for 2010, right?

[Perd Hapley]

Geithner says we'll have a double-dip recession if we don't raise the debt ceiling, and the US defaults on its debt, intimating that if we don't raise the debt ceiling, a default is inevitable. Because we can't be bothered to reduce spending.

But do you think we'll actually reduce spending? 

[Boomhauer]

To the leftists, TEOTWAWKI is cutting gov't spending.

To the rest of us, it's a Good Thing to slash gov't spending.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

But do you think we'll actually reduce spending? 

Not in any meaningful way. The party of borrow and spend will happily increase the debt limit at the behest of the party of tax and spend.

[Tallpine]

We're headed off a cliff, and it doesn't really matter much if we're on the left hand track or the right hand track. 

Anyway, let's say you have a huge mortgage, three car payments, and $200K of credit card debt.  Instead of not going out to eat every day, you get your credit card limit increased.  That will fix the problem, right ?   

[longeyes]

Geithner's job is to make sure the right people get richer.  He knows who he works for.  You can't build prosperity by borrowing beyond your means ad infinitum; even a Secretary of the Treasury should understand that.

[Scout26]

TEOTWAWKI - let's do it.

[longeyes]

Let's do it, but let's find a shorter acronym.

[AZRedhawk44]

Bring on the TIKIWIKI.

Let's just have the show-down and be done with it.

[Ron]

Geithner, who has already suspended a program that helps state and local government manage their finances, will begin to borrow from retirement funds for federal workers

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/treasury-to-tap-pensions-to-help-fund-government/2011/05/15/AF2fqK4G_story.html

oops, I meant to post this in the 401k thread, yet I'll leave it here as it is somewhat apropos.

The inconceivable will be foisted upon us to forestall TEOTWAWKI, for the children...

[mtnbkr]

Bring on the TIKIWIKI.

Let's just have the show-down and be done with it.

  

[AZRedhawk44]

Bring on the TIKIWIKI.

Let's just have the show-down and be done with it.

  

No, not tinkiwinki.  TIKIWIKI.  A mocking name of TEOTWAWKI. 

Halting the debt at 14.whatever trillion dollars won't hurt the PRODUCTIVE people in this country.

Raising taxes on the PRODUCTIVE people in this country will hurt both the productive people, and the welfare leaches.  But the PRODUCTIVE people will find a way to survive it, while the leaches will either fade off or be re-educated.

And raising taxes on the PRODUCTIVE people will really rile us up and motivate us to put some people in Congress that make the TEA Party look downright moderate.  Watch the spending slashes after that!

It won't be TEOTW.  But it will seem like it to NPR, Teh Nooz and all the fluffy programs that we don't need.  Hence, TIKIWIKI.

I'll outlast NPR/National Endowment for the Arts/Social Security/Medicare/Obamacare and every other wasteful, non-Constitutionally-sanctioned program out there that Congress has enacted, through such a starvation cycle.

[41magsnub]

In what may be a somewhat related issue..  the web account for usdebtclock.com has been suspended.   

[Viking]

In what may be a somewhat related issue..  the web account for usdebtclock.com has been suspended.   

Tried usdebtclock.ORG? I did. It's...scary...

[41magsnub]

er..  that was what I meant and that is the one that is suspended.

[andrefitzgerald]

Everybody is worrying about this non-stop issue of debt limit.Some are predicting enormous reviews and potical as well as economic turbulence for this.President Obama dealt with the debt ceiling in a White House press conference Wednesday. He was especially critical of House republicans not willing to increase the debt ceiling if taxes are raised. The president suggested congress shout "address their sac red cows" and "get it done.". Predictable, responses to the conference have been divided along party lines. I read this here: spam link removed ]Obama blasts Republicans on debt ceiling[/url].

[De Selby]

Azredhawk - how are the "productive" people going to overcome having assets denominated in a worthless currency?  Because that is what happens when governments default.

I'll be back to check on this thread if the debt limit doesn't go up; if any of you over there can still afford Internet access, I'd like to read post-default opinions about this.

I predict that the republicans will eventually cave on this, knowing (as they do) how severe the consequences will be.

 

[birdman]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/treasury-to-tap-pensions-to-help-fund-government/2011/05/15/AF2fqK4G_story.html

oops, I meant to post this in the 401k thread, yet I'll leave it here as it is somewhat apropos.

The inconceivable will be foisted upon us to forestall TEOTWAWKI, for the children...

401(k)'s are privately held...I can see them trying a weird proactive tax, but I can think of ways they could foist taxes on us that wouldn't be quite so revolution inducing as screwing the middle class...they will just start taxing assets instead of income (a la estate or property tax), and set the limit high so it affects a small (starting at 10%) but increasing fraction of the population.  Imagine a really small, yearly property/asset tax, say 1-2% on assets totaling greater than $1m...

[Jamisjockey]

Everybody is worrying about this non-stop issue of debt limit.Some are predicting enormous reviews and potical as well as economic turbulence for this.President Obama dealt with the debt ceiling in a White House press conference Wednesday. He was especially critical of House republicans not willing to increase the debt ceiling if taxes are raised. The president suggested congress shout "address their sac red cows" and "get it done.". Predictable, responses to the conference have been divided along party lines. I read this here: /]Obama blasts Republicans on debt ceiling[/url].

Spambot must die.

[lupinus]

Azredhawk - how are the "productive" people going to overcome having assets denominated in a worthless currency?  Because that is what happens when governments default.

I'll be back to check on this thread if the debt limit doesn't go up; if any of you over there can still afford Internet access, I'd like to read post-default opinions about this.

I predict that the republicans will eventually cave on this, knowing (as they do) how severe the consequences will be.

 

And not allowing more debt spending means default....how again?

[birdman]

And not allowing more debt spending means default....how again?

Indeed.  The treasury can choose to pay whichever accounts it chooses, with the revue it gets (well, kind of, dept service is constitutionally mandated as being paid first).  Given that, I can however see Obama and his exec. Branch choosing the most fear-mongering and feel the pain choices (visible services, entitlements for the most needy and press worthy) possible to force public opinion to their side.

[RocketMan]

Indeed.  The treasury can choose to pay whichever accounts it chooses, with the revue it gets (well, kind of, dept service is constitutionally mandated as being paid first).  Given that, I can however see Obama and his exec. Branch choosing the most fear-mongering and feel the pain choices (visible services, entitlements for the most needy and press worthy) possible to force public opinion to their side.

This is exactly what the Obama administration will do.  They will make a bad situation worse to score political points, consequences be damned.

[birdman]

This is exactly what the Obama administration will do.  They will make a bad situation worse to score political points, consequences be damned.

First make things worse is the cornerstone of Saul Alinsky's communitynorganizing strategy, it's unsurprising those steeped in that area would follow it...in the same vein as hunger strikes, union walkouts, and other things, it garners attention, then you offer an "easy" solution.  Since the well off arent visibly hurt by the initial activities, they are easy to hold up as a de facto target, and blammo. (for results see Russia 1917-present)

[AZRedhawk44]

Azredhawk - how are the "productive" people going to overcome having assets denominated in a worthless currency?  Because that is what happens when governments default.

I'll be back to check on this thread if the debt limit doesn't go up; if any of you over there can still afford Internet access, I'd like to read post-default opinions about this.

I predict that the republicans will eventually cave on this, knowing (as they do) how severe the consequences will be.

 

Whatever the welfare society is given by government, the productive people will ALWAYS have more.  If they don't... the productive will either stop being productive or they will pursue a dramatic correction of income redistribution (such as insurrection or secession). 

So, whatever hurts the productive... will always hurt the welfare society MORE. 

You're right... losing assets or asset value will hurt the productive society a lot.  But when it comes to the daily grind of keeping the rain off your head and food in your mouth, productive people will be ahead of the curve when compared to welfare recipients.

And productive people will ride that storm.  When the moochers come to take food out of their very mouths and try to redistribute it to the welfare society, however, there will be conflict. 

It seems we as a society are REALLY AVERSE to having the welfare debate unless it REALLY HURTS.

TIKIWIKI will really hurt.  But it won't be the end of the world.  We all might lose big chunks of our 401k's and stocks and such.  But the wealth potential our country will have, once we axe our social programs once and for all, will make such an investment worthwhile ten times over.  Productive people will recoup their loses, and then some.

Where we sit right now, we have financial assassins heading our government and alley thugs down the street waiting to steal the scraps.

I'm all for doing something to disenfranchise the financial assassins, and turn the alley thugs into the outlaws they should be.  But to do that, we have to force their hand and make them bare their blades for all to see.