Proms require TSA Patdowns now?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i thought it was a judge who made em get tsa to supervise the private company  and the state boys filled in because they couldn't get tsa

[grislyatoms]

Trying to put myself in my daughter's position here. The prom discussed is not too far (60 miles) from us.

 Pat-downs are excessive in this case. I have no problem with wanding/metal detectors. I would feel comfortable with that degree of security.

[dogmush]

Trying to put myself in my daughter's position here. The prom discussed is not too far (60 miles) from us.

 Pat-downs are excessive in this case. I have no problem with wanding/metal detectors. I would feel comfortable with that degree of security.

I would not.

If a party is so dangerous as to require metal detectors you should really consider weather you want your children to attend.

If it's not, why teach them to accept security theater, or uneeded searches.

Never go to clubs with metal detectors. Sure it feels safe inside. But what about all those [people] waiting outside with guns? They know you ain't got one.

[MicroBalrog]

nowadays we 8 year olds bring guns to school.  the times have changed

So how common is this 'eight year olds carrying a gat' stuff? Statistics, please!

[HankB]

I predict a rise in "private" proms . . . that's happened in a few cases already (for different reasons) and has drawn the ire of administrators, but they're actually quite helpless when it comes to exerting control of off-campus parties sanctioned by parents outside of school hours.

[Tallpine]

Even if guns aren't allowed, there's always a chance of a fistfight, which could lead to a challenge to a duel with swords.

[makattak]

Even if guns aren't allowed, there's always a chance of a fistfight, which could lead to a challenge to a duel with swords.

I'd call that a mighty fine shindig or the finest party I can imagine getting paid to go to.

[Tallpine]

There's some kind of cheese sauce, too 

[roo_ster]

Better go interrogate that buffet.

[AZRedhawk44]

Only on APS...

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

So how common is this 'eight year olds carrying a gat' stuff? Statistics, please!

not sure i can help you there.
good luck in your quest though

this is all i found so far
http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/local/montgomery/Kids-bringing-weapons-to-school

[Nick1911]

not sure i can help you there.
good luck in your quest though

Hang on...  You are the one who made the positive assertion that times have changed, as evidenced by 8 year olds carrying guns to school.

Someone calls for you to back up your claim with quantitative data, and you tell them good luck in researching it?   

[MicroBalrog]

Here's what Google brought home:


http://youthviolence.edschool.virginia.edu/violence-in-schools/virginia-statistics.html




"There are far more look-alike guns (toys) than real guns. Moreover, event the category of “real” guns may be misleading. Of the 143 incidents involving an object that was formally classified as a “real gun”, just 22 were handguns and 8 were rifle/shotguns. There were 113 incidents classified either as “other firearms,” a category (WP8) that includes air rifles, or as “BB Guns,” which is its own category (WP0). "

Note that the total amount of children carrying firearms in Virginia schools is 30. Thirty. As in, three dozens. Out of 1,235,309 students of varying age.

This is the Virginia school system's own statistic.

http://youthviolence.edschool.virginia.edu/violence-in-schools/national-statistics.html

According to the National School Safety Center, the total amount of homicides in American schools during the school day - in all of the United States of America had been 1. As in 1. As in one.

Every single year, news continue to tell us of rising violent crime rate, violent youth, The Children Rising To Devour Us. THey do this despite the consistently dropping rate of violence among youth.

Conclusion:

Either the oppressive majority of these hundreds of thousands of young men and women carrying pistols to school manage to hide it so awesomely well that nobody notices them - and then to continue to commit no violent crimes with them - suggesting that them carrying these arms is not actually a problem - or, more likely, they do not actually exist, and their numbers are highly exaggerated by principals, teachers, and other attention-seekers for funds, political power, and media exposure.

[mtnbkr]

A recent survey taken by students showed that in the last year, one in ten of  fifth and sixth graders said they had used a knife, gun, or club to hurt someone on school grounds.

Gonna call BS on this one.  First, 5th and 6th graders?  Ages 10 to 12.  While I carried a pocketknife from about 5th grade until I graduated in the early 90s, not many other students did (at least that I'm aware of).  I suspect the vast majority of those weaponized students used clubs (books, baseball bats in gym class, etc), with a small fraction using knives, and a statistically insignificant portion using guns.

Think of how big the news reporting would be if a 5th grader pulled a gun during a schoolyard fight  That nobody can come up with decent stats indicates it verges on the realm of the theoretical for those age groups.

Chris

[Jamie B]

or, more likely, they do not actually exist, and their numbers are highly exaggerated by principals, teachers, and other attention-seekers for funds, political power, and media exposure.

...and on discussion boards on the Interweb. Oops.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

According to the National School Safety Center, the total amount of homicides in American schools during the school day - in all of the United States of America had been 1. As in 1. As in one.
  really? over what time frame?


"consistently dropping rate of violence among youth."


in what world?

[MicroBalrog]

 really? over what time frame?

The year 2009. Mash the link.

in what world?

The world of the FBI Uniform Crime Report.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797%2898%2900009-9/abstract

Violence among youths is an important public health problem. Between 1985 and 1991, homicide rates among youths 15–19 years of age increased 154% and remain, today, at historically high levels. This paper reviews the major trends in homicide victimization and perpetration among youths over the last decade, the key risk factors associated with violence, and summarizes the many primary prevention efforts under way to reduce violence. Previous research points to a number of factors that increase the probability of violence during adolescence and young adulthood. Some of these factors include the early onset of aggressive behavior in childhood, social problem-solving skill deficits, exposure to violence, poor parenting practices and family functioning, negative peer influences, access to firearms, and neighborhoods characterized by high rates of poverty, transiency, family disruption, and social isolation. Efforts to address some of the primary risk factors for violence are under way across the United States, but evaluations to confirm program effectiveness are needed.

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/youthviolence/chapter1/sec2.html#myths

Myth: The epidemic of violent behavior that marked the early 1990s is over, and young people—as well as the rest of U.S. society—are much safer today.

Fact: Although such key indicators of violence as arrest and victimization data clearly show significant reductions in violence since the peak of the epidemic in 1993, an equally important indicator warns against concluding that the problem is solved. Self-reports by youths reveal that involvement in some violent behaviors remains at 1993 levels (see Chapter 2).


we have folks involved in the school system here.  i'd be interested in their experiences

[red headed stranger]

or, more likely, they do not actually exist, and their numbers are highly exaggerated by principals, teachers, and other attention-seekers for funds, political power, and media exposure.

Yep, and their hysteria is what would lead to children being scared by their elders into thinking that TSA patdowns are necessary for something as innocuous as a prom.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5702a1.htm
During July 1999--June 2006, a total of 116 school-associated homicides occurred among students (an average annual homicide rate of 0.03 per 100,000 students) and were associated with 109 events (Table); approximately 78% of these deaths occurred on a school campus. Eight of the 109 events included more than one death. Most homicides included gunshot wounds (65%), stabbing or cutting (27%), and beatings (12%). Calculations using NCHS mortality data for July 1999--June 2004 indicated that the proportion of homicides among school-age children that were school associated was 0.96% (i.e., 79 of 8,236 total homicides).

The mean and median age of decedents was 15 years (range: 6--18 years). Male students, students in senior high schools (or schools that combined high-school grades with lower grades), students attending schools in central cities, and public-school students accounted for the largest proportions of victims. However, rates did not differ significantly in rural areas compared with urban fringe/large town** areas or in public schools compared with private schools.

Overall and single-victim school-associated student homicide rates decreased significantly during July 1992--June 2006; both decreased from 0.07 per 100,000 students to 0.03 per 100,000 students (p<0.001 and p = 0.004 by chi-square test, respectively). However, rates for overall and single-victim school-associated homicides during a more recent period, July 1999--June 2006, did not change significantly (Figure). During both periods (July 1992--June 2006 and July 1999--June 2006), multiple-victim student homicide rates remained stable.

[MicroBalrog]

Violence among youths is an important public health problem. Between 1985 and 1991, homicide rates among youths 15–19 years of age increased 154% and remain, today, at historically high levels.

Yes. We know this. How does this contradict the statements I linked to that homicide rates declined after 1993]? Do you understand the difference between the year 1993 and the year 1995? Note the weasel phrasing, too.

Note that the article you linked to has been written in 1998, and hardly reflects the reductions in crime rate seen since.

According to the other article you linked to, "Overall and single-victim school-associated student homicide rates decreased significantly during July 1992--June 2006; both decreased from 0.07 per 100,000 students to 0.03 per 100,000 students "

[MicroBalrog]

Fact: Although such key indicators of violence as arrest and victimization data clearly show significant reductions in violence since the peak of the epidemic in 1993, an equally important indicator warns against concluding that the problem is solved. Self-reports by youths reveal that involvement in some violent behaviors remains at 1993 levels (see Chapter 2).

Even if we believed 'self-reports by youth' (self-reporting is amazingly irregular in terms of providing realistic crime data) - according to Chapter 2 of that report, said 'behaviors' (they provide no listing of what behavior is mentioned), are less likely to involve firearms.

Here is the report you quoted, from that very site:

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/youthviolence/chapter1/sec3.html#chap2

Today, with fewer young people carrying weapons, including guns, to school and elsewhere than in the early 1990s, violent encounters are less likely to result in homicide and serious injury and therefore are less likely to draw the attention of police. . By 1999, arrest rates for homicide, rape, and robbery had all dropped below 1983 rates. In contrast, arrest rates for aggravated assault remained higher than they were in 1983, having declined only 24 percent from the peak rates in 1994.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

ever wonder why fewer kids are carrying guns?  heres a hint...  when did the metal detectors become more prevalent?  and is there a possible correlation?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

when i went to school only a few folks carried and we/they were mostly a holes.  nowadays some real nice kids carry and more importantly feel like they have to. and more sadly i can't honestly tell em they are wrong.

[MicroBalrog]

ever wonder why fewer kids are carrying guns?  heres a hint...  when did the metal detectors become more prevalent?  and is there a possible correlation?

Metal detectors are rather uncommon even in American schools, excepting horrific inner-city districts. I suspect the real reason is the reduction in overall violent crime, among kids and adults. Crime among children and young adults tracks with general crime.

I am happy that we have agreed on the conclusion that less children are carrying guns today.