Proms require TSA Patdowns now?

[red headed stranger]

when i went to school only a few folks carried and we/they were mostly a holes.  nowadays some real nice kids carry and more importantly feel like they have to. and more sadly i can't honestly tell em they are wrong.

ever wonder why fewer kids are carrying guns?  heres a hint...  when did the metal detectors become more prevalent?  and is there a possible correlation?

So, which is it?  Are more or less kids carrying guns???

[Tallpine]

Fewer 

 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Metal detectors are rather uncommon even in American schools, excepting horrific inner-city districts.


really?  your experience is different than mine

I am happy that we have agreed on the conclusion that less children are carrying guns today.


you are yet again mistaken.  more kids carry today than ever.  whats worse is the type of kid who carries has shifted. but again perhaps your experience is different than mine.  i own a wand for use in remilling old lumber. i get called to use it at partys . i live in a fairly rural environment.  i get lots of guns on young kids.  kids too young to drive. more guns than knives. i had three young men that worked banquets at howard with me.  real nice squared away guys going somewhere in their lives.  the kind you want your daughter to drag home. one night the topic of guns came up and i was surprised that all 3 carried. i was forced to admit that their reasons for carry were valid

[MicroBalrog]

http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/school_metal_detectors.html

The majority of schools in the United States do NOT use metal detectors on a day-to-day basis.  While there are no credible statistics on the exact number of schools using metal detectors, stationary metal detectors used on a daily basis are typically limited to large urban school districts with a chronic history of weapons-related offenses.  U.S. schools regularly using stationary metal detectors on a day-to-day basis are the exception, not the rule.

Note that the  prevalence of an event is not a matter of personal experience but a matter of statistics. I am as capable of inquiring into these statistics from here as you are from Virginia. Even if you were a school teacher - which by your own statements you are not - your experience would be at best with a handful of schools, not with the entire American school system.

[MicroBalrog]

you are yet again mistaken.  more kids carry today than ever.  whats worse is the type of kid who carries has shifted

ever wonder why fewer kids are carrying guns?

[mtnbkr]

really?  your experience is different than mine

I live in Manassas, hardly a yuppie paradise.  None of the schools I've been to in the City, including Osbourne HS  (fed by Georgetown South), had metal detectors.  None of the schools I've been to anywhere in the past decade have had metal detectors.  I think reality is less pervasive than you'd lead us to think.

JamisJockey, your boy went to school in Hoodbridge until you moved, did his school have metal detectors?

Maybe parents on this board with kids in public schools should weigh in on the presence of metal detectors in the schools their kids attend.

Chris

[Regolith]

I graduated from a public high school in 2004. We did not have metal detectors, and the school still doesn't.  None of the schools we played football against had them either. Neither do any of the schools in the area where I now live.

The only schools I've known to have metal detectors are either in high density urban areas or are schools for criminal youths.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.nabita.org/documents/ThreatAssmtarticleSchPsyQuarterly.pdf

heres a study of one methodology and its got some stats


and another study with more stats  both studies focus on va
http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/vcss/documents/2007VA_High_School_Safety_Study_Survey_Report.pdf

they wand at dances here after a kid got stabbed to death at a dance

[MicroBalrog]

http://www.nabita.org/documents/ThreatAssmtarticleSchPsyQuarterly.pdf

heres a study of one methodology and its got some stats

and another study with more stats  both studies focus on va
http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/vcss/documents/2007VA_High_School_Safety_Study_Survey_Report.pdf

The first study makes no reference to the prevalence of metal detectors.

According to the second study, which you yourself quoted:

However, most students  noted that they did not have metal detectors (76%) or a requirement that students wear badges or picture identification (83%)

Among teachers - again, from the same study you quoted:

However, most teachers noted that they did not  have metal detectors (89%) or a requirement for students to wear badges (93%)

Note that teachers are likely to be more knowledgeable about the school security processes than the students. At least one hopes so.

According to the article, "the accuracy of student reports can only be verified by obtaining security
information from each high school. The school safety audits completed by principals will be used for this
purpose."

[MicroBalrog]

http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/vcss/documents/07-08 SchoolSafetyReport.pdf

This is a link to the Virginia School Safety Report 2008.

This is the official survey of school principals and superintendents on the security measures used by Virginia schools.

Page 19 tells us that "portable metal detecting wands" are used in 12% of Virginia schools. THe prevalence of fixed metal detectors is not stated, but page 20 of the same study tells us that they are "less frequent".

[Boomhauer]

I graduated from a public high school in 2004. We did not have metal detectors, and the school still doesn't.  None of the schools we played football against had them either. Neither do any of the schools in the area where I now live.

The only schools I've known to have metal detectors are either in high density urban areas or are schools for criminal youths.

Mirrors my experience...none of the schools in my area, not even the one specifically for the thugabees (i.e., their last chance before expulsion) have metal detectors or security screening. I'm an '06 graduate and still have a sibling in the high school I went to.

[RoadKingLarry]

Them metal detectors run on electricity don't they? I'm not sure the school in my area has that stuff yet .

Being a rural area the local high school (at last check) didn't even ban pocket knives so long as the blade was shorter than the width of your hand.

In contrast, at a slightly larger small town school only 25 miles away, one of my nephews was suspended for having a set of fingernail clippers with the file on it, they defined that as a weapon.

[erictank]

I live in Manassas, hardly a yuppie paradise.  None of the schools I've been to in the City, including Osbourne HS  (fed by Georgetown South), had metal detectors.  None of the schools I've been to anywhere in the past decade have had metal detectors.  I think reality is less pervasive than you'd lead us to think.

JamisJockey, your boy went to school in Hoodbridge until you moved, did his school have metal detectors?

Maybe parents on this board with kids in public schools should weigh in on the presences of metal detectors in the schools their kids attend.

Chris

Neither Woodson High nor Frost Middle uses WTMDs.

[Tallpine]

As of a year or two ago, the principal/superintendent of the local school was still storing students' rifles in his office during the day during hunting season :)

[Perd Hapley]

As of a year or two ago, the principal/superintendent of the local school was still storing students' rifles in his office during the day during hunting season :)

Do the students find that comforting, and does it enhance their learning experience? 

[KD5NRH]

I suspect the vast majority of those weaponized students used clubs (books, baseball bats in gym class, etc), with a small fraction using knives, and a statistically insignificant portion using guns.

Exactly; I whacked a bully with a desk in 5th grade.  I don't see a push to ban desks.

[roo_ster]

I live across the street from a public elementary school and 1/2 mile from another.  No metal detectors when I have entered the buildings.  I live 1/4 and 1/2 mile from two different public high schools, same lack.  Same for the Junior high 1/8 mile away.

Last, no metal detectors at the school I send my kids to.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/school_metal_detectors.html



Note that the  prevalence of an event is not a matter of personal experience but a matter of statistics. I am as capable of inquiring into these statistics from here as you are from Virginia. Even if you were a school teacher - which by your own statements you are not - your experience would be at best with a handful of schools, not with the entire American school system.

this was a dance   a prom  not everyday   and proms create a special challenge.  kids from different schools and the conflict that carries. some of the halls won't rent to you without security that meets their standards and thats wands in my area. had one fatal stabbing and a couple less serious incidents.

[MicroBalrog]

I take it that you no longer claim that metal detectors are common in schools.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I take it that you no longer claim that metal detectors are common in schools.

you are mistaken

[Regolith]

you are mistaken

So you continue to hold that position contrary to all evidence?

[MicroBalrog]

you are mistaken

Do you believe that the principals of Virginia's schools have lied to the VDOE? Perhaps you would like to lodge a formal complaint?

[makattak]

Metal detectors are not common in schools.
 
Metal detectors are common in urban public schools.

Most rural/suburban public schools are safe, decent places. Some of them even provide a quality education.

Urban public schools are wholly different. Some of them may well be best served by TSA style pat-downs.

[MicroBalrog]

Urban public schools are wholly different. Some of them may well be best served by TSA style pat-downs.

If I were a stereotypical, middle-class parent - which I will never be - and I had a child in a school that utilizes such security measures, I would assume one of the following:

1. The school is a dangerous place full of junior thugs and there is a semblance of a genuine justification to these measures. This is not conducive to a good education for my child, nor to his/her/its safety  or future development as a free citizen.

2. The school is not a dangerous place, but is run by paranoid control freaks. his is not conducive to a good education for my child, nor to his/her/its safety or future development as a free citizen.

3. Both of the above are true.

Note also that the quality of schools is known to be a factor for parents' choice of address. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

you presume that a lot of folks have more choices than they do