Author Topic: And in other news, Massachusetts....  (Read 4602 times)

kgbsquirrel

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And in other news, Massachusetts....
« on: June 20, 2011, 05:57:50 PM »
....is apparently seeking to make handgun carry simply unaffordable for the common law abiding citizen. Bill H.665 has been scheduled for a hearing on the 21st of June, a bill which seeks to impose a minimum required quarter million dollar liability insurance policy for each individual handgun owned by a citizen as a prerequisite for obtaining a firearms license, or renewing an already existing license.

http://www.malegislature.gov/Bills/187/House/H00665

There are additional multiple amendments to the current law that I have yet still to look up to get a clear picture of the whole of this legislation. Lots of "strike out the following and insert the following" without really giving an idea as to what is being altered.

wmenorr67

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2011, 06:07:02 PM »
Have a feeling there are going to be more cases based on what is reasonable.
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MillCreek

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2011, 06:18:54 PM »
As a risk manager, I know a lot about insurance.  But I am unfamiliar with any insurance product currently on the market that would satisfy the Massachusetts requirements.  I wonder if there are any, or if the commercial marketplace will develop any.  It has to be a pretty small market, and I would wonder if it would be worth the bother for an insurer to develop and sell a policy meeting these requirements.  If there is any sort of state firearms affinity club or association in Massachusetts, I would be talking to an insurance broker about developing a such a policy and then selling it to the association members.  Could be some profit in it if you took that approach.


No license to carry shall be issued pursuant to this section unless and until the applicant for the license or for the renewal of an existing license presents to the licensing authority a complete list of every handgun owned by the applicant along with a certificate of insurance verifying that the applicant has a valid insurance policy insuring against any harm or damage that might arise out of the use of each weapon on said list. The applicant shall swear under the penalties of perjury that said list is a complete list of all handguns owned by the applicant. The insurance policy shall be in an amount of at least $250,000 and shall list the specific weapons covered by the policy. The list presented to the licensing authority shall match the list on the insurance policy or the license or renewal shall not issue. In the event that a holder of a license to carry acquires a new handgun after the issuance of the license or the renewal of an existing license, the holder shall register the weapon as required by law and shall forward to the licensing authority a true copy of a certificate of insurance verifying the existence of insurance, as required herein, for said new weapon or weapons within thirty days of acquisition. Such a policy of insurance shall be available to satisfy any judgment for personal injuries or property damages arising out of the unintentional, accidental or unlawful use of an insured weapon, provided that, in the event of multiple judgments, judgments for medical bills shall have a priority in the order that said judgments are satisfied and, provided further, that medical bills paid for by or owed to the Commonwealth and any municipal or regional governmental entity shall have a super priority and shall be satisfied first out of all such judgments for medical bills. In the event that a judgment issues against the license holder for personal injuries or property damage that cannot be satisfied by the required insurance policy due to the holder’s failure to maintain said policy, the license holder may be punished by imprisonment by not more than five years.
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Tallpine

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2011, 07:34:35 PM »
The word "infringed" comes to mind...
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Monkeyleg

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 07:37:42 PM »
The word "infringed" comes to mind...

The word "Massachusetts" comes to mind.

RevDisk

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2011, 12:41:34 AM »
As a risk manager, I know a lot about insurance.  But I am unfamiliar with any insurance product currently on the market that would satisfy the Massachusetts requirements.  I wonder if there are any, or if the commercial marketplace will develop any.  It has to be a pretty small market, and I would wonder if it would be worth the bother for an insurer to develop and sell a policy meeting these requirements.  If there is any sort of state firearms affinity club or association in Massachusetts, I would be talking to an insurance broker about developing a such a policy and then selling it to the association members.  Could be some profit in it if you took that approach.

Correct.  There is currently no form of insurance that would be acceptable, and it is unlikely for any major insurance company to cater to this niche.  So you would need an expensive, risky and hard to obtain custom insurance coverage.  That's kinda the point. 

Clever actually. 

Our side will argue it's a poll tax, their side will make the car insurance analogy.
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Scout26

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2011, 02:45:41 AM »
They tried this in Illinois last year, two years ago.  It's a favorite of the anti's as there is no such policy, rider or coverage available.

I bet that someone might be able to find it under Obamacare.... ;)
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CNYCacher

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2011, 07:32:12 AM »
Alerted my gun-loving Mass friends about this.  Their response: "We might as well move back to NY!"  :facepalm:
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2011, 02:01:13 AM »
My friend in MA just gave me a call, taken from the news he was just listening to, apparently it isn't a quarter million dollar policy to carry handguns, but is $250,000 liability coverage for each individual firearm a person owns, carry or not.

Would anyone like to quote me the premium for a personal firearms liability insurance plan with a coverage of $6,250,000? For some reason I have the feeling it would exceed my annual income.

nigmalg

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2011, 02:22:25 PM »
Quote
Our side will argue it's a poll tax, their side will make the car insurance analogy.

The car insurance analogy is difficult when we're talking about an incorporated constitutional right. How come the legislatures aren't held civilly liable
when a bill/resolution is declared unconstitutional by courts?

They can effect massive amounts of financial and in many cases criminal damage to otherwise law abiding individuals with absolute impunity. Should their immunity exist here?

1.) Legislature passes said unconstitutional law
2.) Several people are arrested and/or don't qualify to own property
3.) Said people are prosecuted and victimized for tens of thousands of dollars until their cases are dismissed via the Appellate court process (god knows how the local Mass courts would rule)
4.) Victim wishes to sue to recoup some of their losses, except...

1.) Legislators have absolute immunity
2.) Prosecuting attorney's have absolute immunity
3.) Judges have absolute immunity
3.) Individual officers and law enforcement agencies have qualified immunity, as they were just enforcing Massachusetts statute/code.

Victim is out of luck.  :mad:

zxcvbob

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 09:18:00 PM »
Quote
1.) Legislature passes said unconstitutional law
2.) Several people are arrested and/or don't qualify to own property
3.) Said people are prosecuted and victimized for tens of thousands of dollars until their cases are dismissed via the Appellate court process (god knows how the local Mass courts would rule)
4.) Victim wishes to sue to recoup some of their losses, except...
  • Legislators have absolute immunity
  • Prosecuting attorney's have absolute immunity
  • Judges have absolute immunity
  • Individual officers and law enforcement agencies have qualified immunity, as they were just enforcing Massachusetts statute/code.
5.) Victim assassinates judge and one or two legislators before being caught.  (if on the jury, I would vote to acquit because no legal method of redress was possible because the govt exempted itself)

Maybe judges and legislators (and prosecuting attorneys) will be more reticent next time.
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never_retreat

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 09:48:46 PM »
Correct.  There is currently no form of insurance that would be acceptable, and it is unlikely for any major insurance company to cater to this niche.  So you would need an expensive, risky and hard to obtain custom insurance coverage.  That's kinda the point. 
Wait till the state offers the insurance at some sort of inflated price. See its available they will say.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: And in other news, Massachusetts....
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 10:28:31 PM »
Quote
The insurance policy shall be in an amount of at least $250,000 and shall list the specific weapons covered by the policy.

Clearly written by a hoplophobe. They don't want the owner to be covered by the policy, they want the [evil] GUNZ to be covered. Obviously, the authors of this bill have accepted the Brady logic that GUNZ commit unspeakable atrocities unaided by human intervention.

What we really need is a law requiring legislators to be insured for a million bux against voting for any law that does not produce the promised positive results within one year of passage.
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