Author Topic: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.  (Read 8576 times)

Monkeyleg

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A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« on: July 03, 2011, 12:24:19 AM »
Last weekend I spent an entire day in a very hot garage replacing the stator for the alternator on my '89 Harley. I still had another job to do--replace leaking rocker box gaskets--so I decided to do that today, when temps outside were again close to 100.

I generally have to replace these gaskets every two years, as they dry out from the heat of the motor and start leaking.

I did everything exactly as I've always done, and had the bike together after four or five hours. I'd also changed the tranny fluid, oil, and oil filter. A weird thing happened when I added new oil, though. I put my funnel into the neck of the chrome oil tank, opened a quart of oil, then let it drain into the tank while I went to get a second quart. I put the second quart in the funnel while I went to get the third. As the third was draining into the tank, I went to get the fourth, turned around, and saw oil overflowing from the tank, all over the side of the bike. I haven't seen that before. I had to think about what the problem might be, and decided to think about it while washing the oil off the bike.

I started the bike to take it outside. It took a few tries, as I'd had to drain the gas tanks and fuel lines to remove the tanks to get at the cylinders. After a few tries, it started, but the engine felt funny.

I looked at the floor, and saw a big puddle of oil. I looked under the bike, and there was oil running from the filter I have at the end of the crankcase breather hose (I have it underneath the bike, so it pumps crankcase fumes into the atmosphere; sue me).

I immediately turned the motor off, and started backtracking on what I'd done. Had I accidentally switched an exhaust pushrod for an intake rod? No. Could I have left a rocker jammed somehow? No. These wouldn't cause the bike to puke oil anyway. Could some old gasket material have gotten into the oil pump? Maybe, but not that quickly.

I went online to a Harley forum to seek opinions. I posted my new thread, explaining everything I'd done, and hoping someone would ID the problem, and the problem wouldn't cost $200 to fix.

After I posted the thread, I took a quick look in the shop manual. It was then, while glancing over specifications for the bike, that I saw my mistake: my bike takes three quarts of oil, not four. I'd overfilled the tank, and what didn't gush out over the side of the bike went into the motor, and that excess oil went out the only way it could: through the crankcase breather.

I have no idea how many times I've changed the oil on this bike, or even how many gallons or maybe even barrels of oil I've put into it, but I've never tried to put four quarts in at one time when the bike only takes three.

Getting old sucks.

grampster

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2011, 12:55:06 AM »
Whenever I take my hands out of my pockets and move the fantasy forward that I have hands like a surgeon and the knowledge of Solomon, it usually costs me twice the proper amount when I finally pay the expert that I called in to rectify the chaos induced to whatever genre I happen to be assisting entropy by adding my expertise.

I still live in awe of the fact that I didn't die before my 20th birthday due to a misplaced trust in my ability to walk and chew gum at the same time.

That is all.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2011, 01:15:48 AM »
Grampster, I've had the "expert" mechanics at Harley dealerships all over the country make mistakes that I never would, even on the simplest repairs.

But forgetting how much oil the bike takes...

I guess I can blame the heat. ;)

RocketMan

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2011, 02:37:41 AM »
You got your bike well lubricated, now get yourself well lubricated and move on. :laugh:  We all make boneheaded mistakes.  We just get better at it as we get older, so we make more of them.  :facepalm:
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bedlamite

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2011, 04:04:09 AM »
Last weekend I spent an entire day in a very hot garage replacing the stator for the alternator on my '89 Harley.

All day? Ouch, why so long? We had to do that to Kelley's VFR earlier this month at Fontana Village, we had it running and the body panels back on in an hour and a half.

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birdman

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2011, 07:09:07 AM »
I'm confused, I thought HD's were supposed to leak oil all over the floor? ???

Stand_watie

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2011, 07:32:40 AM »
I'm confused, I thought HD's were supposed to leak oil all over the floor? ???

No, it's supposed to blow back in a fine mist at 60 mph. That's a tactical design to keep the rice burners from passing...
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birdman

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2011, 09:32:41 AM »
No, it's supposed to blow back in a fine mist at 60 mph. That's a tactical design to keep the rice burners from passing...

Ah, doesn't help for Italian bikes though, the bike just absorbs it for later use by the rider as hair product or food additive.

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2011, 09:34:59 AM »
Ah, doesn't help for Italian bikes though, the bike just absorbs it for later use by the rider as hair product or food additive.

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Monkeyleg

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2011, 09:39:17 AM »
They are designed to leak oil, just not this much. ;)

Quote
All day? Ouch, why so long? We had to do that to Kelley's VFR earlier this month at Fontana Village, we had it running and the body panels back on in an hour and a half.

Changing the stator requires removing the primary cover, the chain adjuster, the clutch plates (individually), clutch hub, other clutch stuff, primary chain, engine compensating sprocket, starter jackshaft, inner primary (which is held on by bolts with those **expletive deleted** tabbed washers you need to bend back), and some other parts.

Assembly requires pressing in a new transmission shaft main seal on the primary, a new starter jackshaft seal, adjusting the clutch (since it's near impossible to get the plates and springs exactly the way they were), assembling all the other stuff, putting those **expletive deleted** washers back on and bending the tabs, and making damn sure the splined link between the starter jackshaft and the starter doesn't fall off while you're assembling. You can't see it when you're putting things together, and it slips off the splined shaft easily. I've had more than one HD mechanic not realize it fell off when he was putting it back together (or other mistakes**). You don't know it's happened until you get everything back together, hit the starter button, and the starter goes "whrrrrrr".

Also, the rubber female plug for the stator has to be pushed through a hole in the crankcase, and it's exhausting just to do that.

I wish every car and motorcycle engineer would be required to do repairs on the car or bike he/she helps design. I guarantee that the designs would become more mechanic-friendly.

**Ten years ago I got stuck in Cour de' Elene Idaho for a transmission problem. The nearest HD dealership is in Spokane, WA, so parts had to be overnighted. The "mechanic" (I use the term very loosely, as my dog knows more about working on bikes) put the clutch assembly on the transmission mainshaft, but didn't pay attention to the key on the shaft that has to be aligned with the notch in the clutch hub. He just torqued everything down, and torqued that key right into the clutch hub, ruining it. It was another two days of waiting for a new hub.

birdman

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2011, 10:16:29 AM »
So far in working on my duc (2001 748, now 853 RS), and yes, she's a tempremental Italian redhead so she requires a lot of work, the only time I've wondered "who the he'll designed it this way" was when replacing the coolant overflow tank, which is nestled between the frame, air box, and steering head tube.  Now, I know why it's there (crash protection from lowsides on a racetrack to ensure it will still run)...it's a PITA to get at.  Everything else is easy, I can strip the bike fast, and the vast majority of parts are easy to get at and have enough room to work...if something is behind something (fuel tank for instance), the tank is easy to move out of the way.  Also neat is how all the vitals are protected by less vital, easy to replace parts (e.g. Side battery to protect motor), and those parts are easy to RR.  It's one of the reasons why as bikes come and go through my garage, the redhead always stays (well, and the fact that the 748/916/996 is pretty much the most beautiful bike ever made).

Tallpine

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2011, 11:39:07 AM »
You meet the nicest people working on a Harley  :lol:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Monkeyleg

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2011, 12:06:42 PM »
Quote
You meet the nicest people working on a Harley.

Well, you sure don't meet these people:



wuluf

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2011, 12:51:04 PM »
could be worse, at least you remembered to put in oil... =D

230RN

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2011, 04:36:02 PM »
I've often reecommended, yea, even on this board, that when an automotive (or bike) engineering team finishes up a design, that they lock the chief engineer in a big room with no food or water, and only a crescent wrench and two screwdrivers and be required to take the whole vehicle apart and put it back together again.

That's what I've often recommended.

Ayup.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 05:59:11 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

bedlamite

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2011, 06:26:22 PM »
They are designed to leak oil, just not this much. ;)

Changing the stator requires *whole buncha stuff*

Yikes. Hardest part on the VFR was routing the wires from the stator on the left side to the R/R on the right. Had to prop the tank pull the airbox to get it through.
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Tuco

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2011, 08:29:08 PM »
My new curse target is a 1995 Merc Benz e320 (W124).   After 12 years, I washed my hands of the Land Rover.
(Same $#!^, different car.)

Today, while rebuilding the front hubs, I pressed a race in backwards. 

Yup, I got a good memory, it's just short.
7-11 was a part time job.

Monkeyleg

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2011, 11:16:32 PM »
Not too many parts stores for Mercedes open on Sunday, I'd suspect. $$$$, too, when they do open.

Bedlamite, do you always lay bikes on their sides to work on them?

bedlamite

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2011, 11:26:50 PM »
No, usually I use a track stand and pick them up to work on them. The pic doesn't show it very well, but we had it propped up at about 35-40 degrees so the oil would drain to the right side and we didn't have to change it.
A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

Tuco

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2011, 11:29:29 PM »
Not too many parts stores for Mercedes open on Sunday, I'd suspect. $$$$, too, when they do open.

No trip to the store required for this one.....  Flip over the hub and press it out, reinstall.

I'm in the process of establishing a parts network.  
AutoHaus (Arizona) has a good selection of quality & oem parts, but I hate waiting over a week for UPS Ground.

One thing about British iron, the fasteners are pretty easy to remove, soaked in oil like they are...  
This Deutschmobile is dry as a popcorn fart.
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birdman

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2011, 08:20:43 AM »
No, usually I use a track stand and pick them up to work on them. The pic doesn't show it very well, but we had it propped up at about 35-40 degrees so the oil would drain to the right side and we didn't have to change it.

Also works for fast clutch changes in an SV650 (my lightweight race bike) when you don't have time to change the oil at the same time.

Monkeyleg

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2011, 11:49:09 AM »
The Harley Evo models have a clutch hub that's pressed into the clutch shell (the part with the sprockets for the chain). The clutch has friction plates and then metal spacer plates between them, all of them cut to fit over the splines on the hub. Here's a photo to give you an idea of what I'm talking about:



When all of this is on the bike, it's all covered in oil and, when you take off the parts that hold the clutch plates in place, and the bike is leaning on the side stand, the pressure plates and spacers just slide off like hot butter. When you're trying to put them back on, it's impossible unless the bike is leaning such that the hub is facing up a bit, rather than down. Otherwise the plates fall off faster than you can put them on.

This is all prelude to a story from a few years ago. I was at an HD dealership in Wyoming with an intermittent electrical problem. Out back was a grassy area with some shade where I went to rest.

Some outlaw types pulled in and one spoke with the service manager. Apparently he was having some sort of primary issue. The manager said they couldn't get him in until Tuesday (this was Saturday). After a lot of yelling and swearing, the outlaw went outside and started removing the primary cover, then the adjuster plates and clutch plates and all sorts of parts. He bought some part (can't remember what) and installed it.

He then started to put things back together. It was hot, and he was getting frustrated, or at least the number of swear words made him sound frustrated. Then he got to the clutch plates. He'd put one on, and it would slide off. He'd do it again, and the plates would slide off.

One of his fellow outlaws--a guy about 300 pounds--was sleeping on a picnic table. I said to the outlaw working on his bike, "you know, if you had your buddy over there hold the bike so it was leaning away from the clutch, you'd have an easier time getting those plates back on."

Of course, nobody tells outlaws how to work on bikes. "**Expletive deleted** you", he said.

OK, fine.

I watched the plates keep falling off for another fifteen or twenty minutes. Then finally the outlaw yelled to his fat buddy to get over there and hold the bike leaning away from him.

With the bike leaning, the outlaw was able to get the plates on quickly. He then started to put on the compression spring and adjuster plate--backwards. I was going to say something, but decided to keep my mouth shut. After all, these are outlaws, right?

He got the primary cover back on, started the bike, and all sorts of noises came from the clutch. I can only imagine what parts were breaking.

The HD mechanic had taken care of my electrical problem, and I was loading my bag on my bike when the outlaw went in to ask the service manager when they could look at his bike, and the location of some cheap motels.

As I pulled out of the lot, I thought about wishing the outlaws good luck, but then said to myself, "**expletive deleted** them."

coppertales

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2011, 02:29:57 PM »
The motorcycle usually comes with an owner's manual for a reason........chris3

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2011, 03:03:02 PM »
senior moment working on one?  annoying    senior moment riding one?  life changing.  its why i am not on 2 wheels right now
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

birdman

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Re: A senior moment working on my motorcycle.
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2011, 03:19:10 PM »
The motorcycle usually comes with an owner's manual for a reason........chris3

I have yet to purchase a motorcycle where the owners manual covered anything more involving than oil change.