Author Topic: Can I fix this?  (Read 64485 times)

CNYCacher

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2011, 02:45:51 AM »
When I worked in the cabinet shop I was the go-to guy for anything electrical.  This one lady who was making minimum doing busywork all day kept making a lot of noise about how she was experienced at electrical work and had "wired 3 prisons down south" as an "apprentice electrician".  No one really believed her except the VP of the company got her ear bent by Barb one day.  She comes to me and the shop foreman with "Did you know that Barb is an electrician?  She should be wiring these cabinets.  We can't afford any mistakes." to which the foreman responded something like "Well, if it's electrical and I want it done right the first time, I ask [me] to do it."  Her response was colorful and included the term "misogynistic" and neeedless to say, she got her way.

So Barb sets about wiring her first cabinet.  It had a plexiglas window in the front, around which was to be mounted 6 24" 2-tube fluorescent fixtures on the inside of the cabinet so that when you looked in the window, the interior was illuminated but you couldn't see the lights.  There was to be a switch on the back side of the cabinet to turn the lights on and off.  I stayed away all day until the foreman called me over for the unveiling about 6 hours later.  "You're going to like this," he said "I've been watching her."

So Barb goes and plugs in the power cord to a receptacle and the cabinet illuminates with a beautiful light.  The few people who were watching murmured their approval, and the VP who had come out to the shop floor gave a little thumbs up.  Then Barb throws the switch and the lights turn off.  The foreman (who had a degree in electrical engineering) starts chuckling and says "Hey Barb, turn that back on a second."  It was about this time that I notice one of the guys was looking with puzzlement at a nearby table saw as he flipped the switch back and forth, a half-ripped board in his other hand.  Barb throws the switch again to no effect as the guy at the saw calls out "Did we lose power or trip a breaker or something?"

To make along story longer, Barb had zero experience with anything electrical.  She had worked for an electrician on the "prisons down south", but her duties were limited to screwing down conduit and assisting in wire pulls.  The foreman instructed me to open the cabinet and correct whatever she had done, which was:

Each of the six lights had a a wire whip coming from the ballast box of 12/3 appliance cable (like for make-your-own extension cords and stuff) which she got of a spool in the electrical department.  The lights were not daisy-chained together even though they formed a shape like a oval.  There was just a cable going from each light.  All the cables stretched back to a single junction box in the corner of the cabinet.  Also entering this junction box was a cable coming from the switch box and the power cable.  Inside the light boxes, she had connected the green wire from the cable to the grounding screw, and connected the white from the cable to the white from the ballast, and the black from the cable to the black from the ballast. Not too shabby, aside from the god-awful cable routing.  Inside the switch box she had connected the green wire to the grounding screw on the switch, and connected the black wire to one side and the white wire to the other side of the switch.  Ok, this could work, depending on how things were in that main junction box. . . .

Inside the junction box were 6 cables coming from lights, one power cable and one cable from the switch box.
All the green wires were cut off flush with the sheath.  :facepalm:
All the white wires were nutted together with a giant wire nut  [barf]
All the black wires were nutted together with a giant wire nut  [ar15]

So basically, the only reason it lit up at all was because the switch was off when she plugged it in.  As soon as she flipped the switch (to "ON"), she closed a dead short between the neutral and hot, tripping the breaker.
On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
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Balog

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2011, 12:21:32 PM »
Very true, that.  I've run into it a few times myself.

And sometimes the bare wire isn't ground, it's a hot that's lost its insulation.  :O That one was in a commercial building too. Scary.

We used to walk up behind guys working on electrical and go "ZZZZZT!!" really loud. Most would jump, some would get pissed off.  :laugh:

Or scuff your feet on the carpet then touch them. Brother did that to my dad once. Dad said, and I quote, "I thought I was dead." Hilarious.  :lol:
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280plus

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2011, 02:59:49 PM »
 ^^^ :lol:
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #78 on: July 22, 2011, 03:12:38 PM »
I luvs me a 220v ground short plasma ball, they sear your retinas really, really good
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Regolith

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #79 on: July 22, 2011, 03:44:10 PM »
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

Balog

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #80 on: July 22, 2011, 03:46:20 PM »
Whoa....
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

TechMan

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #81 on: July 22, 2011, 03:48:54 PM »
Yea that is definitely one of those "check you shorts for the brown monorail track" incidents.
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280plus

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #82 on: July 22, 2011, 06:28:48 PM »
Yea, I believe in that sequence if you watch very carefully you can spot the exact moment he craps his pants.  :lol:
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Balog

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #83 on: July 22, 2011, 06:46:06 PM »
So what exactly is happening there? I see three phases getting disconnected while hot. Does one of the arcs between the disconnecting arms ground out to a pole or something?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Brad Johnson

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #84 on: July 22, 2011, 06:54:15 PM »
Isolator arc on a 500Kv line in Boulder City, NV.  (And interestingly not far off from what happened after Dad tried to wire up his new air compressor)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQQMK1Rvq0A

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280plus

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #85 on: July 22, 2011, 07:02:29 PM »
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!  :laugh:
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Physics

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #86 on: July 22, 2011, 10:46:45 PM »
I love electricity. =D
In the world of science, there is physics.  Everything else is stamp collecting.  -Ernest Rutherford

230RN

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2011, 07:45:41 AM »
Ooooooooo!   Aaaaaaaaah!
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

K Frame

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #88 on: July 24, 2011, 05:59:30 PM »
Go to your local big box home store.

Go to the do it yourself section and buy one of the probably many different kinds of "The Beginner's Book of How Not to Turn Yourself Into a Corpse Doing Home Electrical Repairs" books.

I have one from Sunset. They were a standard in the industry for many years.

Basically...

Complete and Total Dumbass Newbie = Sunset is the right book.

These days it might be the "Idiot's Guide for  How Not to Turn Yourself Into a Corpse Doing Home Electrical Repairs."

These books will show you, in clear diagrams, the BASIC wiring set up that you'll find when try to work on most outlets, light switches, or light fixtures.

They'll tell you how to do it safely (relatively, they can't mitigate moron syndrome) and what basic tools you'll need.

I spent this morning installing a new timer in the master bath in my house that will run the ceiling fan and light.

In order to install it AND get the lights to work above the sink (people who built my house did some weird assed gang wiring) I had to separate the gang wiring, install some new wiring, and put everything back together.

8 hours later and my house isn't burning down.

If I hadn't learned a LOT from my Sunset book, which I got when I bought my house, I'd have never even tried to tackle that job. I'd have just returned the timer to the store.
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roo_ster

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #89 on: July 24, 2011, 10:59:51 PM »
Ixnay on the pull-chain fixture.  Get a cheap motion-sensor fixture and never pull the chain again.

I've learned that a non-contact voltage probe is my best friend.  :)

This is wise.  As opposed to all the wiseacreage I have read in this thread.

Who would be so stupid as to not label the switches??? And why does every freakin' household appliance come with flashing clocks these days?

Stupid electricians.

To taunt us.

ME TOO!! I think that makes us 440V / 60 cycle buzz brothers or something! I was more fortunate though in that I was covered in sweat at the time so I watched as the pretty blue lightning bolt sizzled across my arm. It did NOT hurt!  Made me think though! :O

Woulda made me seek out a clean pair of drawers.

I used to have a fairly good collection of tools before I got married, but they somehow disappeared in the divorce. All he left me with was a rusty hammer, a rusty multi-bit screwdriver, and the body of my cordless drill (case, bits and battery missing). What kind of man takes a woman's tools and leaves her rusted junk?

That has the makings of a real raw country song.  I think David Allen Coe could make it work.

It takes me like four times as long to do a minor electrical repair compared to anything else, because 75% of my time is spent making sure I won't electrocute myself. :)

Same here.

-----

Mike Irwin makes a good point.  The Home Depot wiring or general purpose home repair books are handy, too.  Taught myself to sweat pipe with one, when the high-dollar plumber got amorous with the pooch in my new guest bath and I then trusted NO ONE to get it right.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Ben

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #90 on: July 24, 2011, 11:06:23 PM »
when the high-dollar plumber got amorous with the pooch in my new guest bath and I then trusted NO ONE to get it right.

There's a story in there. Yet I dare not ask.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MillCreek

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #91 on: July 24, 2011, 11:10:53 PM »
That is the classiest way of saying 'screwed the pooch' I have ever seen.  Must file away for future use.
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Ben

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #92 on: July 24, 2011, 11:22:41 PM »
Well there went the story.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

roo_ster

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #93 on: July 24, 2011, 11:25:02 PM »
Well there went the story.

I could make something up that sounded freakishly plausible.

It is not for nothing I was once called "The Cliff Claven of <my_church>."
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Boomhauer

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #94 on: July 24, 2011, 11:29:31 PM »
Quote
I then trusted NO ONE to get it right.

If there is one thing I've learned in this world, it's if you want something done right...gotta do it yourself...

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OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #95 on: July 25, 2011, 12:50:54 AM »
Not only that, but the breaker box switches aren't labeled so I don't even know which one to turn off and I have far better things to do than run back and forth to the storage room off the back of the house where the breaker panel is and back into the house to see if the dryer stopped and I got the right switch while every clock in the house is flashing. Who would be so stupid as to not label the switches?

Unlabeled breaker panels are not uncommon, and sometimes the labels are on a card or paper inserted in a plastic pocket. Sometimes, those go missing.

You see, the guys who make their dough wiring buildings are not really worried about whether you can find the right breaker later on. And I wonder how many people really want to pay a contractor to do it, when any pair of literate monkeys can do it themselves.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #96 on: July 25, 2011, 04:22:43 AM »
Little brother was a Navy FC, he had similar electronics training to mine.
One day he was having problems with his clothes dryer and couldn't figure out the problem. He decide the 220 wasn't getting to the unit and wanted to verify that theory he borrowed my Fluke 77 but couldn't figure out how to make it work.
So, he licked his fingers and swiped them across the contacts.
I'd still like to see a DNA test to prove we are related.
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280plus

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #97 on: July 25, 2011, 07:30:06 AM »
Yup, I've seen guys do that. I am not one of them.  lol...

Quote
I used to have a fairly good collection of tools before I got married, but they somehow disappeared in the divorce. All he left me with was a rusty hammer, a rusty multi-bit screwdriver, and the body of my cordless drill (case, bits and battery missing). What kind of man takes a woman's tools and leaves her rusted junk?
Don't feel bad, all mine left me was a plate, knife, fork, spoon, cup, a pot, the couch and my stereo. (thank GOD cause there woulda been some real issues if she took that. lol...)
Avoid cliches like the plague!

MrsSmith

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #98 on: July 25, 2011, 08:43:23 AM »
Don't feel bad, all mine left me was a plate, knife, fork, spoon, cup, a pot, the couch and my stereo. (thank GOD cause there woulda been some real issues if she took that. lol...)
Ouch! I got a bit of revenge though. I kept the sailing trophy we won together, the new cookware, and everything in the liquor cabinet.

I could make something up that sounded freakishly plausible.

Please do.

Go to the do it yourself section and buy one of the probably many different kinds of "The Beginner's Book of How Not to Turn Yourself Into a Corpse Doing Home Electrical Repairs" books.
Good idea. However, considering all the things I've read in this post that could be different from the norm or done wrong originally, etc., I'll just let handy friend do it and watch him.
America is at that awkward stage; It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. ~ Claire Wolfe

280plus

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Re: Can I fix this?
« Reply #99 on: July 25, 2011, 08:50:12 AM »
Kept the liquor, I like that.  :laugh:
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