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Author Topic: a what if  (Read 8572 times)

MicroBalrog

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Re: a what if
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2011, 04:08:52 PM »
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Park land or another's private property, no matter.  Squatting and starting fires is the wrong answer.  Or are you arguing it was the "youth's" land?  It is possible to trespass on public property, too.  Most parks have signs on them clearly stating the hours.

What hours were stated in this park? Was it in fact park land?

Where were they openly advertised?

Do you believe individuals have a right of citizen's arrest over camp fires on park land?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: a what if
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2011, 04:11:21 PM »
that park only allows camping with a permit.  the houses back up to the battlefield and some of the homeowners have screwed up ideas of their rights to the park. we had a hiker biker trail run down an old rail line and the locals really showed their butt over it  lucky none of em got hurt
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Tallpine

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Re: a what if
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2011, 10:03:34 PM »
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Do you believe individuals have a right of citizen's arrest over camp fires on park land?

Out here in the arid West during a hot dry summer, starting a "campfire" is analogous to arson.  :mad:


But - I have no desire to get into a scuffle with anyone.  That's why I carry a sidearm  ;)
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seeker_two

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Re: a what if
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2011, 10:24:55 PM »
Quote from: MicroBalrog on August 10, 2011, 04:08:52 PM

Do you believe individuals have a right of citizen's arrest over camp fires on park land?

No....but starting a fire during a burn ban in Texas is worthy of a sniper shot.....  [ar15]
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: a what if
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2011, 10:39:51 PM »
not dry here
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Strings

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Re: a what if
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2011, 01:11:19 AM »
Ok, starting to see the problem...

"The way it is where *I* am...". But y'all aren't realizing: this isn't where YOU are (C&SD excluded, it seems).

Whether the teen was in the wrong or not, the ADULT should have known better than to grab said teen as he did. And SHOULD feel lucky that his aggression only got him a trip to the hospital, instead of the morgue

Teen MAY have been trespassing. Adult committed battery, and attempted abduction. Period.
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No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: a what if
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2011, 07:39:07 AM »
i would never lay a hand on a kid unless i was truly intent on hurting him and felt justified to do so AND  was willing to pay for it
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Strings

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Re: a what if
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2011, 03:09:39 PM »
Sorry, maybe I was unclear. You are, as far as I know, the only poster who is somewhat nearby geographically...
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No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

Tallpine

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Re: a what if
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2011, 03:54:54 PM »
Quote from: Strings on August 11, 2011, 03:09:39 PM
Sorry, maybe I was unclear. You are, as far as I know, the only poster who is somewhat nearby geographically...

"what if" for me is Montana, not Virginia
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vaskidmark

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Re: a what if
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2011, 05:33:55 PM »
Quote from: Strings on August 11, 2011, 03:09:39 PM
Sorry, maybe I was unclear. You are, as far as I know, the only poster who is somewhat nearby geographically...

Hey!  I'm in the city with the largest collection of Second Place trophies in the world.

http://www.mapquest.com/?le=t&q=Street%2BView%2BMonument%2BAvenue+Richmond%2C+VA&maptype=map&ICID=mq_localoneclick&flv=1&vs=map

Get yourself to the intersection of Monument & Lombardy Aves at the JEB Stuart statue and track westward all the way to the homage to Arthur Ashe (do try to see it from just west of it and tell me it does not look like he is about to whack those kiddies with his tennis racket).

Look here, too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_Avenue

stay safe.
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If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: a what if
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2011, 08:58:48 PM »
Quote from: Strings on August 11, 2011, 03:09:39 PM
Sorry, maybe I was unclear. You are, as far as I know, the only poster who is somewhat nearby geographically...

you were clear.
 i was just reiterating my position vis a vis touching a kid not my own.  if i wasn't justified in taking him out it would be hands off,  unless of course he looks at my daughter funny. then all bets are
kids/teens are not second class citizens  as far as some dufus trying to drag them somewhere.  i might forgive a good backhand to a mouthy kid but trying to drag one to your house is verbooten,  i mighta let the air outa that fool as a bystander ,if i was there...... and couldn't choke him out first. its quicker
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: a what if
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2011, 09:37:23 PM »
Since this is a va case,

The fire is of minamal concern to me. If the kids reasonably woodwise "a small bonfire" is not going to take out the woods, and if you must put it out, (and if it was my backyard I would immediatly) thats what water and fire extinguishers are for.

Approch: I would be visably armed, and have my cell phone. and annonce that kid is tresspassing (ifit was my land) and that he need to leave.
if the kid refuse I would call the cops.

Too be honest, I bet the kid would skuttle as soon as he relized the call had been made.

Now, if, when told that he was trusspassing, and that hecan't stay, he was polite, contright and apologetic, I may ask him to talk to me and offer help (call a shelter, or adult the kid trusts)

I don't see how grabbing and physically attempting to remove him is good for anybody.
To be frank, such actions are rash (and obviously) dangorous. Seems to me that homeowner was all brawn and no brain, and something of an a**hole to top it off.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: a what if
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2011, 07:16:49 PM »
would the fact the kid was not on the mans property change folks views?  or so said the guy who google earthed the guys house   the woods are all on park property
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Regolith

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Re: a what if
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2011, 07:50:51 PM »
http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2011/082011/08092011/644199

Update says that they've caught him and that they're charging the kid with "Aggravated Malicious Wounding".  I bet a decent lawyer could get him off.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: a what if
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2011, 08:05:25 PM »
depends how stupid he got on the internet
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

vaskidmark

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Re: a what if
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2011, 08:27:54 PM »
Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on August 12, 2011, 08:05:25 PM
depends how stupid he got on the internet

Regardless of how stupid he might have gotten, there is enough case law in Virginia to set him free.  As previously noted, the laying on of hands when the "homeowner" was not trying to eject him from his own property is the specific scenario that established his right to self defense and being excused for using lethal force.  All he needs is to not accept a cop-out plea agreement because some public defender does not want to do their job.

stay safe.
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If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

MicroBalrog

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Re: a what if
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2011, 08:31:54 PM »
Quote from: vaskidmark on August 12, 2011, 08:27:54 PM
Regardless of how stupid he might have gotten, there is enough case law in Virginia to set him free.  As previously noted, the laying on of hands when the "homeowner" was not trying to eject him from his own property is the specific scenario that established his right to self defense and being excused for using lethal force.  All he needs is to not accept a cop-out plea agreement because some public defender does not want to do their job.

stay safe.

He's 17. How likely is he to know about case law like this? I doubt public school would have taught him  that.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: a what if
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2011, 08:35:40 PM »
you might be surprised what you learn in public school
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

vaskidmark

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Re: a what if
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2011, 06:31:08 AM »
Quote from: MicroBalrog on August 12, 2011, 08:31:54 PM
He's 17. How likely is he to know about case law like this? I doubt public school would have taught him  that.

He does not need to know a fracking thing about case law.  The attorney that represents him needs to know about it.

Or do you actually believe that I think people go around controlling their actions and decisions based on what they do or do not know about case law?  Or worse yet, do you believe people base their actions and decisions on their knowledge of case law?

Well, now trhat I've written that out, I will admit that some of my actions and decisions are based on my knowledge of case law.  But those are ones that are carefully considered over some significant period of time - you know, the ones I think about before doing.  Does not apply in the case of "spontaneous" acts like self defense.

stay safe.
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If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

MicroBalrog

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Re: a what if
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2011, 07:13:39 AM »
My argument pertains only to one simple aspect: how I think this case is likely to end up.

I think that he's likely to be pressured into a plea agreement of some kind that will no doubt mess up his life for years to come.
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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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