Author Topic: Perry is offically in.  (Read 29046 times)

Balog

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #50 on: August 18, 2011, 01:08:20 AM »
Ron Paul has a plan to grant freedom. Jamis probably has a plan to talk his wife into a threeway with Morena Baccarin. Having a plan != being able to accomplish that plan.

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longeyes

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2011, 02:42:25 AM »
You think I'm telling myself that I am free? Free in what sense? When did I say I was a fix?

Are you free when you vote for Ron Paul, or what? Is it agreeing with longeyes that makes you all cryptic-like?

What's "cryptic" about bluntly saying that we are bystanders, almost all of us, in the current political process.  We do not set the rules any more, and that means the scope of our "freedom" is decided by higher-ups.  This isn't new, but never has it been more blatant, more pervasive.

Is there a way out?  Everything comes to an end.  Cultural entropy will probably drive us toward localism.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2011, 07:43:51 AM »
What's "cryptic" about bluntly saying that we are bystanders, almost all of us, in the current political process.  We do not set the rules any more, and that means the scope of our "freedom" is decided by higher-ups.  This isn't new, but never has it been more blatant, more pervasive.

Is there a way out?  Everything comes to an end.  Cultural entropy will probably drive us toward localism.

He didn't say that, bluntly or otherwise. And if that's what he meant, it still doesn't explain why he thinks that some people are deluded about how free they are.
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brimic

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2011, 08:59:04 AM »
Quote
Having a plan != being able to accomplish that plan.

Step 1: Steal underpants
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Profit

I really haven't had much use for Ron paul in the past, but I think the time of the American Republic is running out, voting another neocon is only slightly better than voting for Obama.
Ron has Ideas and a plan- something sorely lacking in most of our 'leaders.'
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makattak

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2011, 09:21:47 AM »
Ron Paul has a plan?

I know he has ideas, but what's his plan?
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Waitone

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2011, 09:41:15 AM »
The only plan I know of has Paul auditing the FED, something that will never happen.  Bad things happen to people who go nose to nose with the FED.
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longeyes

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2011, 10:46:53 AM »
His plan is to apply Constitutional standards to what goes on in political life. 

And that will never happen either, it appears.

The Federal Reserve is the Holy of Holies; all those who enter unanointed vanish.
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longeyes

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2011, 11:01:30 AM »
He didn't say that, bluntly or otherwise. And if that's what he meant, it still doesn't explain why he thinks that some people are deluded about how free they are.

Maybe he's been observing human nature for a few years?  No slave wants to believe he's a slave.  I recommend you read Kafka's story "Investigations of a Dog."  It is very droll.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2011, 11:02:30 AM »
His plan is to apply Constitutional standards to what goes on in political life.  

And that will never happen either, it appears.

The Federal Reserve is the Holy of Holies; all those who enter unanointed vanish.

Oh. My. Spaghetti Monster! And all this time I thought I was free.  :'(  Help me Jamis!
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2011, 11:04:25 AM »
Maybe he's been observing human nature for a few years? 

Well, me too. How do I attain this level of secret knowledge where I know how much of a slave I am?   ;/
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makattak

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #60 on: August 18, 2011, 01:02:12 PM »
His plan is to apply Constitutional standards to what goes on in political life. 

And that will never happen either, it appears.

That's not a plan. That's a goal. A plan includes the steps by which we would attain that goal.

What's his plan?

I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

longeyes

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2011, 01:58:57 PM »
Don't look for a "plan."  That's socialism, top-down stuff.  Just start behaving like a free citizen and the rest will follow.   Liberty is a bubble-up process from a few basic principles.  And we have all the roadmap we need in the Constitution.



"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

makattak

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #62 on: August 18, 2011, 02:05:04 PM »
Don't look for a "plan."  That's socialism, top-down stuff.  Just start behaving like a free citizen and the rest will follow.   Liberty is a bubble-up process from a few basic principles.  And we have all the roadmap we need in the Constitution.

No, a plan is not socialism.

A plan is leadership.

Allow me to illustrate a plan:

I will order the head of the Department of Energy to immediately begin cutting the DoE workforce by 20% every year in office, regardless of the funding provided by congress. The same will be done with the other DoE, the EPA, HUD, and other agencies. I will eliminate (X) program within the department that is useless and will integrate other functions within (the Department of the Interior, Defense, State...) until the government is back down to it's constitutionally granted powers.

That's a plan. That's what I was asking for.

"I will get the government back to its constitutional limits" is not a plan, it's a goal and a promise.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

wmenorr67

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2011, 02:18:01 PM »
"I will get the government back to its constitutional limits" is not a plan, it's a goal and a promise.

So is "Hope and Change."

And we have gotten that.
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makattak

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2011, 02:31:33 PM »
So is "Hope and Change."

And we have gotten that.

Quite. Hope and Change is not a plan.

Neither is "Constitutionally limited government".

I applaud that as a goal. However, I just read the claim that Ron Paul has a plan. I want to know that plan.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

wmenorr67

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #65 on: August 18, 2011, 02:35:58 PM »
I wasn't saying Hope and Change was a plan, it was a promise, and Obama and Congress has fulfilled that promise.  Every American "HOPES" they have "CHANGE" leftover after paying bills and living.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

cosine

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2011, 03:22:47 PM »
No, a plan is not socialism.

A plan is leadership.

Allow me to illustrate a plan:

I will order the head of the Department of Energy to immediately begin cutting the DoE workforce by 20% every year in office, regardless of the funding provided by congress. The same will be done with the other DoE, the EPA, HUD, and other agencies. I will eliminate (X) program within the department that is useless and will integrate other functions within (the Department of the Interior, Defense, State...) until the government is back down to it's constitutionally granted powers.

That's a plan. That's what I was asking for.

"I will get the government back to its constitutional limits" is not a plan, it's a goal and a promise.

This. A goal is not a plan. It's a subtle, but crucial distinction many politicians don't understand.
Andy

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2011, 03:55:45 PM »
Don't look for a "plan."  That's socialism, top-down stuff.  Just start behaving like a free citizen and the rest will follow.   Liberty is a bubble-up process from a few basic principles.  And we have all the roadmap we need in the Constitution.

I disagree with the first, but there's much wisdom in the second.

And I think it points out what is so fundamentally wrong with so many pinning their hopes on Ron Paul. They're pinning their hopes on a top-down imposition of liberty. They want Uncle Ron to tell them "it's okay to do XYZ" instead of just having the balls to go do it.

It's always gutsy to "be first", I won't deny that dynamic, but it's what has to happen.

This has always been my prime criticism of the gay rights/gay marriage movement, regardless of the actual merits of the subject. All of their strategies to date have essentially been different forms of whining to the .gov hat-in-hand for "their rights".

If you want to "be married", well then be married. Simply declare that you're married. File jointly and pay only those taxes you'd pay if you were married. Your gay husband is in the hospital dying of AIDS, and his fundo parents show up and get you excluded? Kick their ass and force your way into the room. You get excluded in probate? Take the stuff you know your dead partner wanted you to have.

Take your rights. Begging for them just defines you by what your enemies have laid out for you. Don't play their game. Just flip the damn checkerboard off the table entirely.

That's what Rosa Parks and the Freedom Riders did. They quit whining, and just went and sat in the white-seats.

Did they get beat, fire-hosed, imprisoned, and chewed on by dogs for their trouble? Sure. The Founders got even worse than that. The majority of them wound up dead or destitute for their trouble.

Ultimately, that's what's wrong with Ron Paul. His followers astroturfing their way through the GOP primary process and straw polls is an attempt at an end-run to impose a top down solution to what at it's core is a bottom-up problem.

I promise not to duck.

brimic

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2011, 06:15:23 PM »
^^great post^^

OTOH, I'm pretty much done with tax and spend/socialist-lite republicans.
Short of people 'going Galt' there is not much that can be done to stop the growth of the fed government leviathon if we keep electing tweedle -dee and tweedle-dum to the top offices.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2011, 07:16:47 PM »
Did they get beat, fire-hosed, imprisoned, and chewed on by dogs for their trouble? Sure. The Founders got even worse than that. The majority of them wound up dead or destitute for their trouble.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your overall point, but I'm not sure the bolded part is correct. There is a story that makes the rounds about how most of the signers of the Declaration lost their lives, their families, their homes, etc. I am not sure how reliable that information is. http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp


Quote
Ultimately, that's what's wrong with Ron Paul. His followers astroturfing their way through the GOP primary process and straw polls is an attempt at an end-run to impose a top down solution to what at it's core is a bottom-up problem.

In a similar vein, many of them brush aside concerns about Paul's image, the weakness of his campaigning strategy, and the way he presents himself by insisting that everyone should vote for him because he is right. No. You can't win in American politics by being right or having a good plan, and that is as it should be. You have to convince other Americans that you are right and/or have a good plan. It's called "government of the people, by the people, for the people."


"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

brimic

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2011, 10:26:58 PM »
Quote
You have to convince other Americans that you are right and/or have a good plan. It's called "government of the people, by the people, for the people."

Nope. To be elected President, you only need to convince your base that you will pander to them when its convenient and give a 'tingle down the leg' of enough wishy-washy people in the middle.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

AJ Dual

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2011, 10:53:09 PM »
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your overall point, but I'm not sure the bolded part is correct. There is a story that makes the rounds about how most of the signers of the Declaration lost their lives, their families, their homes, etc. I am not sure how reliable that information is. http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp


Well, uh... I'm pretty darn sure all of the founders are dead, now, Mr. smarty-pants.  =D
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2011, 12:11:53 AM »
Nope. To be elected President, you only need to convince your base that you will pander to them when its convenient and give a 'tingle down the leg' of enough wishy-washy people in the middle.

same-same
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longeyes

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #73 on: August 19, 2011, 09:57:50 AM »
Perhaps Ron Paul's real aim is not to win the majority--he's old enough to be a realist--but to protect the minority--as per our Constitution.  That would be the first step in relaunching the greatest plan in history.

There's a lot of hating on Ron Paul in these pages.  Just prying the bunker doors off the Federal Reserve and exposing what's inside to the light would, I believe, have a salutary shock effect on the American polity.  Before people can opt for freedom they must first realize they are slaves.
"Domari nolo."

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Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Perry is offically in.
« Reply #74 on: August 19, 2011, 11:11:41 AM »

There's a lot of hating on Ron Paul in these pages. 

Such as?
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