Author Topic: Riots in London  (Read 23079 times)

MicroBalrog

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #75 on: August 14, 2011, 06:35:11 AM »
Supporters of Arab Spring protests are islamofascist?
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birdman

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2011, 08:18:01 AM »
The whole tuition thing bothers me, even here.  Tuition has increased far faster than inflation, and the root cause is greater governmental financial assistance, by enabling individuals to pay more, at the same "cost" to themselves, colleges have been relatively free to raise prices--which begins the endless cycle of "college is too expensive-->increased financial aid-->increased tuition-->college is too expensive"

In a freer market, colleges could compete to offer the greatest ROI--which they did up until 10-20 years ago.  The very most expensive colleges were the ones that had, statistically the highest post-graduate salaries (the good Ivy's, MIT, Caltech, etc)...now with tuition inflation, small liberal arts schools have shot up, while yielding effectively the same post-grad return, leaving many in a pit of debt, and the rest of the country picking up the tab...for instance, since when did Pell grants start being for middle class? (50% go to those significantly above the poverty line)...simple, when it became a way to buy baby boomer votes by financing their kids.

Simple example: MIT was 25-30k/yr back in the 90's, and mean starting salary was 50-60k for graduates...now it's 45k ish, and mean starting is 75k. (mean starting = 1.5x annual cost)

There are liberal arts colleges that have similar 40-45k costs...do you think their graduates earn a mean of 75k plus with a BS/BA?

This whole "everyone should go to college" push, and the denigration of for-profit schools and certificate programs has resulted in increased resources spent on those who are going to take advantage of it, an over-credentialed society, and a lack of workers in non-degree but high salary fields (technical services, e.g. Electricians, welders, machinists, etc).  We all got lost on the way and turned "someone should be able to find a way to go to college, if that's what they want and it's the right decision" to "everyone goes to college".   One strategy I was proud of being a part of was MIT's "guaranteed need" program--if you got in, they made sure you can go by calculating what you can afford, and making up the shortfall between the cost and your input (plus any fed programs you qualified for) with MIT money--in effect, when I went, half the students paid for the other half--it's the only way I was able to go (we had little money when I was growing up).  By doing it themselves, they staked their finances on students being able to earn enough to make it worthwhile, as half were paying the whole stake, and if it wasn't worth it, they would lose that half.  And it worked...those of us who had the need were (in my experience and observing others) the ones who worked the hardest--we knew what the burden was (on our folks, ourselves, and other students) and maximized the return.

Contrast this to students on major fed aid, at uber-expensive liberal arts schools--where 4 yrs is not even the standard time to earn a degree anymore!  Why leave? Someone else is paying!

The extended college time with someone else footing the bill merely extends adolescence and postpones productivity. 

Read "hard America, soft America", the author contrasts 50's through 90's American youth/post college aduts with European equivalents (as they have had more of a welfare state for longer)...I have a feeling the good things he cites about America are disappearing, and the tuition escalation/long adolesence is a big factor.  His basic thesis is that in America we coddle our you, but then throw them into the real world post-college (quote from friends after Monica cuts up Rachels credit cards "welcome to the real world, it sucks...you are gonna love it"), thus creating hard post-college adults...in Europe, primary/secondary school is usually harder than in the US, but then they are thrown into a welfare state--creating softer post-university adults.  I fear that may be over.

The friends quite is telling...compare TV depictions of 20's folks now to 10 years ago...now it's extended adolescence...then the characters had money problems, and to work, find jobs, etc.

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2011, 02:56:29 PM »
Supporters of Arab Spring protests are islamofascist?

yup! I'm surprised you didn't get the memo! :cool: :P

BTW, I'm a little curious how you got from me saying that islamofascist & commies work together to mean Arab spring supporters are islamofascist?

I remember protesting the Shah in NYC in 1979, we anarchist were protesting in favor of the student rebels & against the Shah & a few months later  the ayatollah steam rolls over the naive young protesters & implements islamofascism ... That's what happens when naive young radlibs support the islamofascist against the common enemy.

The radlibs believe they are smarter then everyone & in their zeal to destroy the western way of life & implement their workers paradise they would hand the reigns of power to the islamofascist who ( despite their belief in post stone age violent monotheism ) are actually the ones using the radlibs and are probably smarter and definitely more cunning then the radlibs.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 03:08:32 PM by gunsmith »
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2011, 03:08:42 PM »
yup! I'm surprised you didn't get the memo! :cool: :P

Are you trolling?
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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2011, 03:10:36 PM »
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

seeker_two

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #80 on: August 14, 2011, 07:45:38 PM »
The extended college time with someone else footing the bill merely extends adolescence and postpones productivity. 

I think you're on to something here...it would definitley explain how colleges get away with mandating so many courses that have nothing to do with post-graduate marketable skills. If you got rid of most of these classes, college would be affordable for most everyone who wants it....and more valuable in the marketplace than it is now....

Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #81 on: August 15, 2011, 08:47:25 AM »
I think you're on to something here...it would definitley explain how colleges get away with mandating so many courses that have nothing to do with post-graduate marketable skills. If you got rid of most of these classes, college would be affordable for most everyone who wants it....and more valuable in the marketplace than it is now....



You are aware that you havve just cited the general reason for extending the mandatory education laws to where they kept kids in school beyond what is now about the 6th or 7th grade, aren't you.  Keeps kiddies out of the labor pool for a few more years, as well as "permanently" filtering out that group that cannot achieve diploma/graduation status.

IIRC the Brits used a system that split into 2 tracks somewhere about that point - the ultra-high-achievers got tracked to get prepped for college, the high-achievers got tracked to get prepped to be secretaries/ store clerks and the like, and the rest were sent to be apprenticed to the trades.  There are days (usually the ones ending with the letter "Y") when I think reviving that system might be better than not reviving it.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #82 on: August 15, 2011, 08:48:59 AM »
Explain this thing about British education to me. Are you talking about the A-Level/O-Level examination system or something else?
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230RN

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #83 on: August 15, 2011, 09:14:42 AM »
birdman observed:

Quote
Tuition has increased far faster than inflation, and the root cause is greater governmental financial assistance, by enabling individuals to pay more, at the same "cost" to themselves, colleges have been relatively free to raise prices--which begins the endless cycle of "college is too expensive-->increased financial aid-->increased tuition-->college is too expensive"

This cycle seems to be fairly common and is exemplified by car insurance and medical insurance escalating prices/costs.

I wonder if someone can formulate a general "law" to this effect, starting from the idea that the highest price for a commodity is "that which the market will bear," and adding that to the idea that price is a function of demand and supply.  Except that price is artificially inflated by external supplies of money for the commodity...

I guess I'm still a little wooly-headed about it, but I can "see" a functional relationship emerging from that external supply of money influencing the price.

Maybe I just need more coffee this AM.


Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 09:21:21 AM by 230RN »
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Iain

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #84 on: August 15, 2011, 10:53:34 AM »
Explain this thing about British education to me. Are you talking about the A-Level/O-Level examination system or something else?

He's talking about the 11 plus, which streamed into grammar schools (traditional book learning) and secondary moderns (more emphasis on practical skills etc). Introduced near the end of the war, it was supposed to be a tripartite system, with technical schools, but they never got built.
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HeroHog

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #85 on: August 15, 2011, 12:10:57 PM »
I remember well sitting down with my counselor in High School and having this conversation: Counselor: "Mr. Mercer, you HAVE to take more than just PE and Welding in your Sr. year!" Me: "HAVE to or need to?" Counselor: "You really have to take more than just those classes to round out your education!" Me: "Again, HAVE to or you want me to? Those classes two will fulfill all the legal requirements for my graduation." Counselor: "But... but... you just CAN'T!" Me: "PE and Welding please! Oh, and by the way, please mail me my diploma. I won't be attending graduation as I have a job to go to."

After I got out of the Navy, I went to Louisiana Tech University as a Engineering Major on the GI bill/Disability only taking one 099 math class to get up to speed even though I graduated High School with like a 2.0001 GPA or so (it wasn't good). The VA's tests showed I had the skills and aptitude to major in most anything I desired with a full ride from Uncle Sam.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 01:06:02 PM by HeroHog »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #86 on: August 15, 2011, 01:03:05 PM »
Did you feel consoled?
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HeroHog

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #87 on: August 15, 2011, 01:08:44 PM »
Did you feel consoled?
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Balog

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #88 on: August 15, 2011, 01:29:09 PM »
So I haven't heard much from London lately, did the water cannon and plastic bullets work? All quiet?
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vaskidmark

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #89 on: August 15, 2011, 02:42:11 PM »
So I haven't heard much from London lately, did the water cannon and plastic bullets work? All quiet?

There's a lot of blending-in going on.  http://iiipercent.blogspot.com/2011/08/got-your-anti-riot-uniform.html

Now available at Wal-Mart or Target for about $10.

BTW, that suggestion about the N-95 mask under the bandana - it will do nothing for teargas.  You're going to have to go to a surplus store and risk getting narc'ed to the FBI for buying a real gas mask.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #90 on: August 15, 2011, 02:53:28 PM »
Spell check alone is just not enough. Sad considering I wound up settling for Technical Writing as my major after I found myself unable to memorize all the carp required to survive Trig and all the math that hinges off of it!

I also struggle to remember the different species of carp.  =)
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AJ Dual

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #91 on: August 15, 2011, 02:56:56 PM »
I had heard that the British .gov was going to require the BBC, SKY, and all other outlets to only play "Yackety Sax" to accompany any riot-related video or newscasts.

This is supposed to make people think back to the Benny Hill Show, and "better times" and lift the national mood until the current emergency is over with.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #92 on: August 15, 2011, 04:20:16 PM »
I had heard that the British .gov was going to require the BBC, SKY, and all other outlets to only play "Yackety Sax" to accompany any riot-related video or newscasts.


And speed the videos up 50%.  (hey, it could work)
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #93 on: August 15, 2011, 04:28:40 PM »
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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AJ Dual

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #94 on: August 15, 2011, 04:41:54 PM »
No, I'm an islamofascist.

Yeah, those guys just need a better PR agency. The whole sexual inequality thing would actually play well in much of the world if they just went from burquas to bikinis...

They'd have every male under 30 in Western Civ going "Jesus... who?" inside a week.
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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #95 on: August 16, 2011, 01:08:11 AM »
Hmmm....

AJ... ever think about creating a religion? I think you're onto something there...
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Ned Hamford

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #96 on: August 16, 2011, 05:05:52 PM »


 =D
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gunsmith

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #97 on: August 17, 2011, 02:35:49 PM »
No, I'm an islamofascist.

Quote
BTW, I'm a little curious how you got from me saying that islamofascist & commies work together to mean Arab spring supporters are islamofascist?

I'm still a bit curious about that, I have a friend that was a huge supporter of the Egypt & other protest back February  in & I tried to point out to him that  (just like in 79 when he & I were protesting the Shah) the islamofascist were just going to use the people who were protesting for change and democracy   to usher in the Muslim Brotherhood & islamofascism.  When I pointed this out to him he suddenly had to get real busy rebuilding his shade structure for burningman and reading liberal blogs so he was to busy to reply.

So please, how is that just because I believe that Arab Spring supporters are being used by Islamist that it means I'm saying they are Islamist?
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

MicroBalrog

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #98 on: August 17, 2011, 02:59:28 PM »
What you said is:

Quote
Glenn Beck is forcing the socialist workers party UK to organize both protest over police racism during the riots and also in support of Egyptian/Arab spring.

Who knew how powerful Glenn Beck is, he makes the commies unite with the islamofascist - he is forcing them to work together! how evil is he?

"In support of Egyptian/Arab spring" =/= Islamofascist.
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gunsmith

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Re: Riots in London
« Reply #99 on: August 17, 2011, 03:30:01 PM »
commies are uniting with Muslim brotherhood etc, but that statement of mine does not say that all supporters of Arab spring ARE islamofascist.

The commies are a bit upset with Beck for pointing out that they are willing to collaborate with genocidal homophobic maniacs that are OK with killing their moms and sisters for honor, but that isn't the same as saying everyone who supports change and democracy/Arab spring are  genocidal homophobic maniacs, sorry for not making that clear
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."