Ladies and Gentlemen, The Next Edsel !!!!

[Scout26]

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/is-chevy-volt-running-out-of-juice-.html

Both the Leaf and Volt, overpriced compared to dead-dinosaur-only powered cars,¹ so people are doing the math and buying the non-green cars.

Volt is capable of clocking more than 35 miles on battery power alone.

 

Still can't get over that range limiting hump yet.   Shocking.

Oh, and the Market Works.  




1)  Yes, I know that for the most part the electricity to recharge the batteries comes from mostly coal fired plants.  However, there are Nuke plants and some other 'alternative' sources that could generate the magic juice to make it go.

[grampster]

I feel sorry for all the people hired in the new battery plants.  In 5 years they'll all be out of a job.

[brimic]

The fail is magnificent.

Still can't get over that range limiting hump yet.   Shocking.

A 400lb battery seems to have the same energy storage as 1 gallon of gasoline (or even less if you consider that inefficiencies of a gasoline engine). 

[TechMan]

But...but...but wasn't the Volt suppose to bring GM back to prominence?

[brimic]

But...but...but wasn't the Volt suppose to bring GM back to prominence?

If only it had a unicorn hood ornament...

[birdman]

Given the amount of energy we get from coal, I'll just re-use the comment I made when once asked if I would buy a tesla:
If I wanted a car that had a range of 200 miles, accelerated that fast, and had that size carbon footprint, I'd supercharge a CTS-V and take the cats off.

[dogmush]

CTS-V comes supercharged now.  It'd be more fun to slap a blower on the Raptor.

[Hawkmoon]

In 1982, my ex-wife and I bought a 1982 Honda Civic 1300 FE (the "FE" was for "Fuel Efficient" or "Fuel Economy"). It was a 2-door hatchback. It had plenty of room for two adults, the rear seat was usable for real people (other than giants), the driver's seat allowed me, at 6'-2" tall, to drive comfortably on extended trips, it had sufficient luggage space for us to go on vacations -- and it produced an honest 40 MPG highway and 30 MPG in normal driving (for us, a mix of urban and suburban commuting).

And they expect me to get excited about a lump that only goes 25 miles on battery before defaulting to carbon-fuel propulsion at WORSE mileage than my Honda delivered 29 years ago? I ... don't ... think ... so.

[dogmush]

Hawk, to be fair standards of safety, acceleration, and comfort have changed quite a bit in the last 29 years.  Even if you could convince people to by that civic now with manual windows, am/fm stereo, no sound deadening and 1960's (at best) suspension, it would be illegal to sell it as it doesn't meet mandatory fed.gov safety standards.  Or emissions for that matter.

All that stuff weighs something, and it takes more power to move it all.  And even more power to move it in a fashion that is acceptable to today's car buying public.

Comparing econo boxes from 30 years ago to today's econo boxes is apples to oranges.

[Jim147]

In 1982, my ex-wife and I bought a 1982 Honda Civic 1300 FE (the "FE" was for "Fuel Efficient" or "Fuel Economy"). It was a 2-door hatchback. It had plenty of room for two adults, the rear seat was usable for real people (other than giants), the driver's seat allowed me, at 6'-2" tall, to drive comfortably on extended trips, it had sufficient luggage space for us to go on vacations -- and it produced an honest 40 MPG highway and 30 MPG in normal driving (for us, a mix of urban and suburban commuting).

And they expect me to get excited about a lump that only goes 25 miles on battery before defaulting to carbon-fuel propulsion at WORSE mileage than my Honda delivered 29 years ago? I ... don't ... think ... so.

That's is something I don't understand. In 1999 we traded in my wife's '95 Saturn SL1. It had 160,000 on it but it was still a good running car. It got 41 mpg the week we traded it in. I still kick my self for not keeping it and just buying the other car.

GM got rid of Saturn but has nothing with the room and mpg that Saturn used to.

And that is not apples to oranges.

jim

[Monkeyleg]

It doesn't make sense to me to use a battery powered car to save energy. Unless I'm very mistaken (a very real possibility), it requires more energy to create the power stored in the battery than the amount of energy that the battery can deliver. So, the electric car is always going to be a net energy loss and, if the electricity produced for the purpose of charging the cars comes from coal or oil or nuclear, nothing has changed.

[Scout26]

It doesn't make sense to me to use a battery powered car to save energy. Unless I'm very mistaken (a very real possibility), it requires more energy to create the power stored in the battery than the amount of energy that the battery can deliver. So, the electric car is always going to be a net energy loss and, if the electricity produced for the purpose of charging the cars comes from coal or oil or nuclear, nothing has changed.

DINGDINGDING  We have a WINNER !!!!

Electric cars are nowhere near as energy efficient as liquid-dinosaur powered vehicles.  Even cornsqueezins' power vehicles are energy inefficient.   And will continue to be so until the market determines otherwise.  But the market is perverted by .gov interference.

[AZRedhawk44]

It doesn't make sense to me to use a battery powered car to save energy. Unless I'm very mistaken (a very real possibility), it requires more energy to create the power stored in the battery than the amount of energy that the battery can deliver. So, the electric car is always going to be a net energy loss and, if the electricity produced for the purpose of charging the cars comes from coal or oil or nuclear, nothing has changed.

I think we talked about it here when birdman first joined our merry little troupe here.... the thermal wastes involved in battery recharge.  The slower the charge the more efficient the transfer, but we talked about it in terms of a 5-10 minute electrical "fill up" service station and the massive cooling infrastructure (and the power needs of that cooling infrastructure).  I believe he did the math in terms of how many gallons of water would boil from the BTU's generated during that power transfer.

Yup.  Electric sux.

[TommyGunn]

The "Volt" is "running out of juice?"


I'm shocked. 

[Nick1911]

It's a passing fad.

Want good fuel mileage?  Start putting small diesels in lightweight (aluminum?) cars and motorcycles.

But oh no, we can't do that!  Because.... sulphur... something....

[RoadKingLarry]

My first car was a 1974 Dodge Colt (i'd already owned 2 motorcycles by then). I could get 35 mpg out of that car pretty regularly. It was, for what it was, a pretty solid little econo-box.  I dated my wife in it (the back seat was surprisingly roomy). It saw both coasts and the Gulf of Mexico while I owned it and when we got married we loaded everything we owned in it and drove it to California.
They could still build cars like that today and sell them for a price a working man could afford to pay.
It wouldn't have to have 38 way adjustable heated corrrrinthian leather lumbar massaging happy ending seats, it wouldn't have to have an entertainment system to rival the sound system at Carnegie hall nor would it need GPS, Onstar, Offstar SirusXM radio, DISH network, Or WiFi hotspot capability.
 

[AZRedhawk44]

A week ago I went on a road trip to Flagstaff.

It's a passing fad.

Want good fuel mileage?  Start putting small diesels in lightweight (aluminum?) cars and motorcycles.

But oh no, we can't do that!  Because.... sulphur... something....

A friend that came with my little group had a 2001 VW Jetta TDI.  It was customized a bit, but it got 55 miles per gallon out of that little turbo-diesel.

[Northwoods]

The rest of the world has realized the goodness that is small displacement turbo-diesels.  Why we can't get them here I'll never really understand. 

Actually I do understand why (difference in emissions standards between Otto and Diesel cycles, higher taxes on diesel, prejudice over old smelly diesels, etc).  I just think the reasoning behind it all is bunk.

[erictank]

Given the amount of energy we get from coal, I'll just re-use the comment I made when once asked if I would buy a tesla:
If I wanted a car that had a range of 200 miles, accelerated that fast, and had that size carbon footprint, I'd supercharge a CTS-V and take the cats off.

Ouch.   

Yeah, electric makes sense, as long as you don't actually THINK about it.

[230RN]

Maybe they should have named it the Ohm.

I keep saying this and saying it:  "So much of this greenie stuff is like pushing in on a kid's party balloon.  You push in here, and it comes out there."

What about the energy costs of building all those batteries and transporting them around and...

Terry, 230RN

[wmenorr67]

But...but...but wasn't the Volt bailout suppose to bring GM back to prominence?

Fixed it for you.

[AZRedhawk44]

Maybe they should have named it the Ohm.

Be very popular with the Buddhist crowd.

[GigaBuist]

DINGDINGDING  We have a WINNER !!!!

Electric cars are nowhere near as energy efficient as liquid-dinosaur powered vehicles

I find that difficult to believe.  In a perfect world you could get about 35% efficiency out of a steel internal combustion engine.  In reality it's lower than that.

There's no way they're using electric motors that burn off more than 65% of their input energy as waste heat.

[AZRedhawk44]

I find that difficult to believe.  In a perfect world you could get about 35% efficiency out of a steel internal combustion engine.  In reality it's lower than that.

There's no way they're using electric motors that burn off more than 65% of their input energy as waste heat.

While operating.

But... how much waste heat during charging?  The faster the charge, the greater the heat generated.  Too slow of a charge, and you can't use your unicorn car.

[HankB]

So it's not selling?

At over $40k, it's still an expensive little Chevy even WITH the government rebate.

Duh. 

(Just wait a couple of years until today's buyers find out how low the resale value is.    )