NYPD: We could take down a plane if we wanted to

[Boomhauer]

EDIT TO ADD: Cessna 150L Vne 141kias.  The Yugo of the skies can outrun NYPD's air force

You're not going to get 141KIAS in anything resembling level flight...you can't get your Ricky Bobby on in a 150 or 172...

[Jamisjockey]

For the 172S:
Vno 129kias
Vne 163kias

Again, that's Vne if you care about keeping the aircraft completely intact.

EDIT TO ADD: Cessna 150L Vne 141kias.  The Yugo of the skies can outrun NYPD's air force.

Downhill, maybe.  I've had to keep coast gaurd helos out of 150's asses on more than one occasion. 

Like I've said, I've provided intercept headings to military Blackhawks, police helos and even light fixed wings up to Cessna 210's.  Had the TFR and airspace violaters actually had ill intent, or for *expletive deleted*ck's sake hijacked a Citation jet, there was nothing they could have done.
The only RFN vectors I've had intercept in time were F16's.  And they can barely handle the low speeds to identify a target like a 150.  Open ROE, they would have shot it the *expletive deleted*ck out of the sky, though....

[KD5NRH]

You're not going to get 141KIAS in anything resembling level flight...you can't get your Ricky Bobby on in a 150 or 172...

You assume stock engine.  IIRC, the .mil figured out an engine that could take the 150 to Vne.  With its weight, that's kinda like putting enough motor in a Geo Metro to make it dangerous.

Plus, it ain't rocket science to come in high and dive at the target.  Hitting the "happy zone" of as fast as you can go without the wings falling off before you get there is a bit harder, but still manageable.

[Tallpine]

You assume stock engine.  IIRC, the .mil figured out an engine that could take the 150 to Vne.  With its weight, that's kinda like putting enough motor in a Geo Metro to make it dangerous.

Plus, it ain't rocket science to come in high and dive at the target.  Hitting the "happy zone" of as fast as you can go without the wings falling off before you get there is a bit harder, but still manageable.

You could probably go a lot faster without the wings  

[kgbsquirrel]

You could probably go a lot faster without the wings  

For some reason your post reminded me of this... 

http://youtu.be/AJ76BSassms

[Tallpine]

For some reason your post reminded me of this... 

http://youtu.be/AJ76BSassms

Proof of the "lifting body" concept 

However, it doesn't work so well on C-130's, especially at low altitudes 

[TommyGunn]

Proof of the "lifting body" concept 

However, it doesn't work so well on C-130's, especially at low altitudes 

I thought the "lifting body" concept was proven in the 60s & 70s with craft like the Northrop HL-10, the H2F2 and such.
I have read about the Israeli F-15 and the incident with the loss of the starboard wing.  Scary indeed -- and a helluva pilot to do that.
IIRC the F-14 also had some "lifting body" effect in the fuselage.

[freakazoid]

Couldn't they just shoot at the engines? It's not like they would be shooting at an armored fighter jet. There target would be a big airliner with big engines for targets. Can't imagine one of those reacting to well with a few rounds of lead shot into it. Of course them actually doing that inside a city doesn't sound to smart. One, if they miss those rounds are going somewhere, and two, they actually manage to bring it down instead of the plane hitting some target, more than likely a single building, it now would be crashing down into who know what.

[TommyGunn]

Shoot at the engines from where?  A helo, when you're bumping along, and trying to line up your sights on a intake on a aircraft's engines?
Or from the ground, where it is a very small, fast moving target?
Something tells me this ain't gonna be too easy ... ... ... 

[CNYCacher]

Couldn't they just shoot at the engines? It's not like they would be shooting at an armored fighter jet. There target would be a big airliner with big engines for targets. Can't imagine one of those reacting to well with a few rounds of lead shot into it. Of course them actually doing that inside a city doesn't sound to smart. One, if they miss those rounds are going somewhere, and two, they actually manage to bring it down instead of the plane hitting some target, more than likely a single building, it now would be crashing down into who know what.

You would be surprised what those engines can absorb and remain running.

Unless you have a sniper rifle that fires Canadian geese, you probably will have less luck than you imagine.

[freakazoid]

A helo, when you're bumping along, and trying to line up your sights on a intake on a aircraft's engines?

To quote Avenger29 from the 2nd page;

Snipers and riflemen engage targets successfully all the time from helicopters. There was even a competition at one of the big three gun matches out west where they did a stage of sniping from a helicopter...even easier, though, if you have an light MG rather than mere rifle, since we are all aware that LE agencies can get 'em. 

Of course you still have the problem of having to intercept the plane to begin with and rounds that miss going into a city. Maybe they got a hold of some mobile Phalanx systems, 

[Boomhauer]

Freakazoid, i dont imagine the NYPD cares too much about stray rounds or falling pieces of airplane. Or mistaking innocent aircraft for legit targets. After all, that would only kill the little people.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

kill or injure pilot  plane fall down

[Tallpine]

Couldn't they just shoot at the engines? It's not like they would be shooting at an armored fighter jet. There target would be a big airliner with big engines for targets. Can't imagine one of those reacting to well with a few rounds of lead shot into it. Of course them actually doing that inside a city doesn't sound to smart. One, if they miss those rounds are going somewhere, and two, they actually manage to bring it down instead of the plane hitting some target, more than likely a single building, it now would be crashing down into who know what.

Best bet would be to just hover out it front of it and let the chopper get sucked through one of the engines    (kinda sucks to be the pilot of the chopper, though)

That might slow it down it a bit.   

[Jamisjockey]

Couldn't they just shoot at the engines? It's not like they would be shooting at an armored fighter jet. There target would be a big airliner with big engines for targets. Can't imagine one of those reacting to well with a few rounds of lead shot into it. Of course them actually doing that inside a city doesn't sound to smart. One, if they miss those rounds are going somewhere, and two, they actually manage to bring it down instead of the plane hitting some target, more than likely a single building, it now would be crashing down into who know what.

Getting to where they can execute the shot is the hard part.....and what makes this unlikely to begin with. 

[Perd Hapley]

Best bet would be to just hover out it front of it and let the chopper get sucked through one of the engines    (kinda sucks to be the pilot of the chopper, though)

That might slow it down it a bit.   

Take back the money, stay out of each others' way. Got it. I'm right there with you.

[KD5NRH]

Best bet would be to just hover out it front of it and let the chopper get sucked through one of the engines    (kinda sucks to be the pilot of the chopper, though)

That might slow it down it a bit.   

IIRC, one of the ideas toyed with for AA guns was basically just stuffing a shell with as big a parachute as it could hold, using steel cable shroud lines.  Lob a bunch of them up, and let them float down in front of the aircraft you want stopped.  Sucking one into a prop or jet intake would do Bad Things, having the pilot effectively blinded would reduce the effectiveness of the aircraft, and of course, dodging the things would play merry hell with a tight formation.

[Scout26]

You would be surprised what those engines can absorb and remain running.

Unless you have a sniper rifle that fires Canadian geese, you probably will have less luck than you imagine.

They are Canada Geese.  They don't carry passports [/Hunter Ed Instructor]

[kgbsquirrel]

IIRC, one of the ideas toyed with for AA guns was basically just stuffing a shell with as big a parachute as it could hold, using steel cable shroud lines.  Lob a bunch of them up, and let them float down in front of the aircraft you want stopped.  Sucking one into a prop or jet intake would do Bad Things, having the pilot effectively blinded would reduce the effectiveness of the aircraft, and of course, dodging the things would play merry hell with a tight formation.

So, temporary barrage balloons. Think I'd rather have the balloons, at least then you can also use them for lofting your radio antennas and what not.

[Tallpine]

What happened to all the domes that were supposed to be over all our major cities by now 

This isn't the future that Popular Mechanix promised 

[KD5NRH]

So, temporary barrage balloons. Think I'd rather have the balloons, at least then you can also use them for lofting your radio antennas and what not.

Balloons pretty much have to be in place before the attacker gets there.  If he can see them, he can go over them.  The parachutes could be shot up too close to avoid that easily.

[Perd Hapley]

Unless you have a sniper rifle that fires Canadian geese, you probably will have less luck than you imagine.

Want. WAAAANT!

[Tallpine]

What do you have against geese 

I heard that they were monogamous and mate for life 

[dogmush]

What do you have against geese 

I heard that they were monogamous and mate for life 

They're not sufficiently sex positive.

[Perd Hapley]

What do you have against geese 

   Geese are always flying through the air. It would just be a little change of pace for them. You don't think they'd enjoy it?