Author Topic: Space travel produces a religious conundrum  (Read 2103 times)

Preacherman

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« on: May 01, 2006, 07:05:28 AM »
I have to admit, I hadn't thought of this . . . Cheesy


From TMCNet ( http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/04/25/1604554.htm ):

[April 25, 2006]     

Malaysia mulls prayer guidelines for Muslim astronauts

(Japan Economic Newswire Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge)

KUALA LUMPUR, April 25_(Kyodo) _ How do Muslim astronauts pray five times a day in space when a "day" in orbit is only 90 minutes? How does one determine where Mecca is in a constantly moving space station?

These were some of the questions Islamic scholars and scientists wrangled with in a seminar Tuesday, as Malaysia, a Muslim country, prepares to send its first citizen into space next year.

Following a nationwide selection process, Malaysia has shortlisted four candidates who will be sent to Russia next week for a final test to pick two future astronauts.

Only one will go into space in 2007 as part of a scientific mission on the International Space Station. Of the four candidates, three are Muslims.

"Our astronaut will stay in the International Space Station for about seven to eight days. Among the important needs of this astronaut, should he be a Muslim, is a guide on how to perform the prayer ritual in space," Mohamad Ruddin Abdul Ghani, permanent secretary of Malaysia's Science, Technology and Innovation Ministry, said in a speech at the "Islam and Life in Space" seminar.

At least one Muslim astronaut has gone into space before. Saudi Prince Sultan Salman Al-Saud orbited the Earth for a week in 1985, as a payload specialist on board the U.S. space shuttle Discovery.

But this is believed to be the first time Muslims are exploring the issue of life in space.

Muslims are required to pray five times daily, turning toward Mecca during prayer.

But as Zainal Abidin Abdul Rashid of Malaysia National University pointed out at the seminar, the space station circles the Earth 16 times in 24 hours, with a sunrise and sunset occurring about every 90 minutes.

"Does this mean we have to perform 80 prayers a day," he said in his seminar paper.

He proposed that Earth time, especially the time zone in Mecca, be used as the reference point to determine the prayer schedule.

On the issue of "qiblat" or the direction of Mecca, suggestions range from installing a special rotating seat so that the Muslim astronaut could turn easily toward Mecca, to using calculator that can determine qiblat direction and the prayer schedule.

Then there is also the question of how to perform ablution, a ritual cleansing of the body, with water-rationing in space.

Also, how does one do the prayer ritual of kneeling and prostrating under zero gravity?

Another Islamic scholar, Abdullah Ibrahim, stressed that Islamic laws are not always rigid, saying in his seminar paper, "Islam provides for flexibility under abnormal circumstances."

For example, he said, one cannot float around and pray at the same time, but one can be excused from the kneeling and prostrating rituals provided one straps oneself firmly in one's seat during prayer.

But on the question of ablution, it is not clear how the issue is resolved. Abdullah said water can be replaced with dust or ash according to the Quran, the Islamic holy book. But as Ruddin noted in his speech, there is no ash in the space station.

Ruddin also raised the question of halal food in space, which Malaysia wants to discuss with Russia about.

Ruddin said the resolutions from the two-day seminar will be presented to the Organization of the Islamic Conference, the world's largest Muslim grouping.

The space program is a tradeoff to Malaysia's $900 million purchase of 18 Russian Sukhoi Su-30 MKM fighter jets in 2003.

Saiyad Nizamuddin Ahmad from the American University of Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates hailed Malaysia's space program as an "inspiration" to other Muslim nations.

"The Muslim world suffers from a lot of problems, especially with its image because of issues like terrorism. We need to have some kind of inspiring example that comes from our own Muslim world, not looking all the time at the U.S., England and the European countries," he told reporters on the sidelines of the seminar.

He urged Muslim countries, especially the rich, oil-producing countries, to allocate resources to initiate their own space programs.

Malaysia has expressed hopes to put a man on the moon by the year 2020.
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El Tejon

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2006, 07:55:46 AM »
How does one wash their feet in space?  One of those hand wipe thingies?
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m1911owner

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2006, 07:57:26 AM »
Quote from: Preacherman
Let's put the fun back in dysfunctional!
Your sig line says it all!

(I know it wasn't intended specifically for this thread, but it happens to really apply.)

Strings

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2006, 12:38:14 PM »
I'm neither Muslim, nor play one on TV. However, it would seem that the "turn twords Mecca" is more symblic than anything. So, a symbolic "look twords the Earth and pray" would seem the most logical move...

 If you think THIS was bad, imagine the Wiccans in space (how DO you run around naked outside in a forest, when "outside" is vaccuum?)

grampster

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2006, 12:57:30 PM »
El T,
It's a hand wipe thingy, so how can they wipe their feet with it.  Maybe have to invent foot wipe thingies.
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Preacherman

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2006, 01:08:58 PM »
Quote
how DO you run around naked outside in a forest, when "outside" is vaccuum?
Obviously, this is why they're looking into hydroponics for long space voyages! Cheesy
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crt360

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2006, 01:21:56 PM »
I don't mean to make fun of anyone's religious practices, but if space travel is not too important or challenging to preclude the required daily prayers, what does a bedridden Muslim do at prayertime?  What about Muslim soldiers?  Do they all simultaenously drop their weapons in combat and amidst the enemy roll out their rugs, face Mecca and pray?  How can some scholars and scientists decide how many times one is to pray?  Shouldn't there be some divine command that directly addresses the matter?

Quote
how DO you run around naked outside in a forest, when "outside" is vaccuum?
Spacewalk in a see-thru spacesuit.  Stick a few artificial trees on the outside of the space station.  The "run" part might be a bit slower.
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Brad Johnson

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2006, 02:19:45 PM »
Quote
Do they all simultaenously drop their weapons in combat and amidst the enemy roll out their rugs, face Mecca and pray?
Sure would make fighting them a lot simpler, not to mention more punctual.

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Ron

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2006, 02:23:38 PM »
Quote
Obviously, this is why they're looking into hydroponics for long space voyages! big_smile
Out in space and hydroponics? Doesn't that belong in the pot thread?

Preacherman

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2006, 03:25:03 PM »
Running naked through the goldfish pond? Wink
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P95Carry

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2006, 04:46:57 PM »
My cynical comments would not be appropriate! Smiley
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Antibubba

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2006, 05:37:45 PM »
I hope they check under the spacesuit for explosives.

Bad joke, but then again, the ISS is as potent a symbol of Western expansionism as anything else, right?
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The Rabbi

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2006, 06:05:02 AM »
There is a joke like this.  Jews are required to pray 3 times a day, shacharis (the morning prayer), mincha (the afternoon one) and maariv (the evening one).

So the first rabbi in space goes up along with the first priest and first minister.  When they get back reporters ask them how it was.
"It was glorious," says the priest, "I truly saw the hand of Gd."
"It was a religious experience," says the minister, "as the psalmist says 'the heavens declare thy glory."
"It was exhausting," says the rabbi "shacharis mincha maariv, shacharis mincha maariv...."

Anyway, we solve the problems as follows:
all times follow the times in Jerusalem.  So whatever Jews in Jerusalem are doing that is what the astronaut does.
For which way to face, if one cannot determine which way Jerusalem is, he inclines his heart towards that city.
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Guest

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2006, 10:41:07 AM »
They let superstitious people be astronauts?

Azrael256

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2006, 11:28:55 AM »
Uh, mercedes, have you ever actually been around hot-shot pilot types?  They are, without question, the most superstitious bunch of whackos you can possibly imagine.

Nathaniel Firethorn

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2006, 01:07:03 PM »
OK, so what's a shacharis mincha maariv?

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The Rabbi

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2006, 02:36:08 PM »
Quote from: Nathaniel Firethorn
OK, so what's a shacharis mincha maariv?
Defined in the first paragraph.
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Antibubba

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2006, 04:57:13 PM »
I wonder if there is a prohibition against prayer rugs with Velcro patches for the knees?
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Strings

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2006, 07:58:01 PM »
>Uh, mercedes, have you ever actually been around hot-shot pilot types?  They are, without question, the most superstitious bunch of whackos you can possibly imagine.<

I have to agree here. the only crazier group I ever met was EOD (SEALs were about on a par with fighter and helo pilots, in regards to "crazy" and "superstitious")...

The Rabbi

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2006, 05:22:31 AM »
Quote from: Hunter Rose
>Uh, mercedes, have you ever actually been around hot-shot pilot types?  They are, without question, the most superstitious bunch of whackos you can possibly imagine.<

I have to agree here. the only crazier group I ever met was EOD (SEALs were about on a par with fighter and helo pilots, in regards to "crazy" and "superstitious")...
A friend of mine with experience here said LRRPs were pretty wild and crazy guys.
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Art Eatman

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2006, 01:47:27 PM »
Back when we first put a man in orbit, he radioed back that he had seen God.

"Tell us, tell us!  What is God like?"

"Sorry, it'll have to wait until I return, after recovery."

Fast forward.  The capsule is on the carrier's deck.  International news folks, all the TV cameras are focussed on the astronaut.

"Tell us, tell us!  What is God like?"

"Well...She's black."
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RevDisk

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2006, 10:38:16 AM »
Quote from: mercedesrules
They let superstitious people be astronauts?
I take it you have not worked in an extremely dangerous occupation.   I've noticed that any occupation where you can very easily die a very painful death at any point makes the majority ...  a bit off.

Knew an EOD guy who absolutely would not go near explosives without his lucky coin.   I'm not kidding, we were about to do a blow when he discovered his coin wasn't in his pocket.   I thought the Capt was gonna flip.  Instead, he delayed the blast until the guy went back to his quarters and came back with that freakin coin.   The only jokes made were about his forgetfulness, not his beliefs.


Tell me that makes any more or less sense than any other religious rituals?   Jews and Muslims don't eat pork, which seems rather weird to me.   Catholics commit symbolic cannibalism during their rituals.  The most devout Catholics claim they're actually committing cannibalism.  I ain't arguing that they're wrong, if they wanna believe wine is actually human blood, that's their business.

The difference between "superstitious" and "established respectable religious rituals" is the number of folks around you doing it.
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Azrael256

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2006, 10:53:33 AM »
Quote
Knew an EOD guy who absolutely would not go near explosives without his lucky coin.
I have one of those myself.  It's a 1916 British penny.  Some old woman gave it to my grandfather on June 4th, 1944.  She walks up to him opens his breast pocket, slips the coin in, and says "Take this for luck because you're going to need lots of luck."  Grandad decided about fifteen years ago that I was more like him than his son, and he was in his seventies at the time, so he figured I could probably make better use of it.  I won't do anything dangerous without it.  Every second I spend on patrol, that penny will be right there with me.

I guess that makes me a superstitious whacko Cheesy

RevDisk

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Space travel produces a religious conundrum
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2006, 11:00:23 AM »
Quote from: Azrael256
Quote
Knew an EOD guy who absolutely would not go near explosives without his lucky coin.
I have one of those myself.  It's a 1916 British penny.  Some old woman gave it to my grandfather on June 4th, 1944.  She walks up to him opens his breast pocket, slips the coin in, and says "Take this for luck because you're going to need lots of luck."  Grandad decided about fifteen years ago that I was more like him than his son, and he was in his seventies at the time, so he figured I could probably make better use of it.  I won't do anything dangerous without it.  Every second I spend on patrol, that penny will be right there with me.

I guess that makes me a superstitious whacko Cheesy
Heh.  Someone once asked me if I had anything I took with me for luck on patrols.  "Yea, dozen extra mags in my ruck."   Run out of ammo once, and you'll carry ten times as much ammo as you'll ever likely need.

Granted, I'm a pagan.   But I don't usually believe that an object is or is not 'lucky'.   I believe a person's faith in an object sustains them.   Just my opinion.   Just to be contradictory, some places just give me bad vibes and I stay the heck away from them like they were a radiactive wasteland.  No rational justification, just instincts.   I'd rather be a superstitious whacko than a corpse.    Wink
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