GFCI Fail

[roo_ster]

GFCI Fail

Before Cub Scout Pack Meeting and Board of Trustees Meeting:
"What's that smell?  It smells very faintly like burning electrical components, but I can't locate it."

Near microwave: <sniff, sniff, sniff, sniff>
Near Outlet: <sniff, sniff, sniff, sniff>
Near oven: <sniff, sniff, sniff, sniff>
Near coffee maker: <sniff, sniff, sniff, sniff>
Trying to catch a waft of it again: <sniff, sniff, sniff>

<grumble, grumble>

"Probably slopped some coffee down the side of the carafe and it burned up in the hotplate"

After we return home:
"Holy mackerel, it is the GFCI outlet.  I am going to get a flashlight & flip the breaker."


Nothing like a good outlet change by flashlight.  Especially one that requires heat shrink tubing to re-insulate wires that have burned/blown off their original insulation.  And making pigtails so that every amp drawn through the circuit doesn't have to flow through the outlet.




FTR, I changed the GFCI out for a standard outlet.

Photos in-wall by flashlight:








After changing it out:







HOT WIRE, indeed.

Happy, neutral side:


Face: "Nothing going on here, no sirree!  The smell?  What smell, ossifer?"


Awfully glad we all didn't die in a fire at 0dark30.

[Nick1911]

Wow.  That is truly frightening.

 

I'm glad that you and yours are okay.  Maybe time to look at the other outlets in the house?

[never_retreat]

Never seen that before.
I see they have 2 sets of wires connected to the line side of the gfci. Any idea where the other wires go?
By connecting it like that the down stream outlet is NOT protected. Bad juju if its in the kitchen.
Do you usually plug something into that outlet? If so check the prongs on the cord to see if they are cooked.

[roo_ster]

Oh, and happy gfci green light was green. 

No cooked prongs on toaster or coffee maker.

[roo_ster]

Wow.  That is truly frightening.

 

I'm glad that you and yours are okay.  Maybe time to look at the other outlets in the house?

Good idea.  Not the first outlet I came across with no pigtails.

[zahc]

It looks like it may have failed at the "ram and jam" push-fit connectors on the outlet. I've been warned never to use those even though it's a million times easier (especially with the big fat GFCI outlets). Maybe that connection became high-resistance, and with no pigtails and the microwave running, it was enough to melt?

if you figure it takes 120W concentrated into that little spot to melt the plastic and the insulation, the connection only needs to develop 1 ohm of resistance in order to melt like that.

[brimic]

Oh, and happy gfci green light was green. 

So you can reinstall it because its working just fine right?

[CNYCacher]

It looks like it may have failed at the "ram and jam" push-fit connectors on the outlet. I've been warned never to use those even though it's a million times easier (especially with the big fat GFCI outlets).

I don't use those either, call em "backstabbers" cause you are stabbing the wire into the back of the receptacle, they stab you in the back later.

BUT, that's not what these are.  Some Leviton receptacles have a hole to put the wire in that comes down between a metal plate and a threaded square washer riding that screw.  You tighten down the screw head and the wire gets clamped quite securely between the plate and the washer.

Didn't seem to work as well in this instance, but it's not your typical backstab

[Harold Tuttle]

I would mail it to the manufacturer

[zxcvbob]

Those particular backwired outlets have clamps, like a breaker.  I bet the installer didn't tighten the screw.  I don't see any bite marks from the clamp on the burned-up copper wire.  (replacing the GFCI with a normal outlet was a bad idea -- especially if there were wires connected to the LOAD terminals)

[Tallpine]

That's almost as bad as your smoke alarm catching on fire ... 

[AJ Dual]

I don't use those either, call em "backstabbers" cause you are stabbing the wire into the back of the receptacle, they stab you in the back later.

BUT, that's not what these are.  Some Leviton receptacles have a hole to put the wire in that comes down between a metal plate and a threaded square washer riding that screw.  You tighten down the screw head and the wire gets clamped quite securely between the plate and the washer.

Didn't seem to work as well in this instance, but it's not your typical backstab

They have their downsides, OTOH, I find the backstabbers to be safer in certain circumstances, like when working in metal outlet boxes that have weird clearances or are a bit overstuffed with excess wire. The side connection screws have shorted out against the box on me now and then. Although this is in an older house with plaster and lathe construction.

[roo_ster]

They have their downsides, OTOH, I find the backstabbers to be safer in certain circumstances, like when working in metal outlet boxes that have weird clearances or are a bit overstuffed with excess wire. The side connection screws have shorted out against the box on me now and then. Although this is in an older house with plaster and lathe construction.

I finish off every outlet/switch I do with a wrap of electrical tape along the connection screws.

[zahc]

The side connection screws have shorted out against the box on me now and then.

Do you remove the screws entirely, then? Because they are still there even if you use the backstab connections, though I guess they don't stick out quite as far.

I finish off every outlet/switch I do with a wrap of electrical tape along the connection screws.

I've never wired in metal outlet boxen but if I did, this sounds like a good idea.

[AJ Dual]

Do you remove the screws entirely, then? Because they are still there even if you use the backstab connections, though I guess they don't stick out quite as far.

I've never wired in metal outlet boxen but if I did, this sounds like a good idea.

Maybe it's just cheap tape, or the old stuff from the 60's and 70's, but electrical tape more than a few weeks/months old to me always means "icky gooey mess" that necessitates replacement. If I were to do something like that, a loop of dry bike innertube stretched around the outlet body would be my choice.

[HankB]

That's almost as bad as your smoke alarm catching on fire ... 

No joke - the one time a school I attended had a REAL fire, it was the fire alarm itself which had shorted out - I remember seeing the smoke damage around and above the alarm switch in the hall. 

[GigaBuist]

I finish off every outlet/switch I do with a wrap of electrical tape along the connection screws.

I think I'm going to steal that idea.  At the very least I'll know what stuff I've worked on in my own house. :)

[CNYCacher]

I think I'm going to steal that idea.  At the very least I'll know what stuff I've worked on in my own house. :)

As if the smoke wasn't a giveaway 

[cfabe]

This was mentioned previously but needs emphasis.

GFCI outlets are designed and normally installed to protect items plugged in at that outlet, as well as downstream outlets on the circuit. Sounds like this is in a kitchen, normally you will have 1 or 2 GFCI outlets that each protect other counter top outlets on the same circuit. ALL the counter top outlets need to be protected. In this case, pigtailing is NOT the correct approach. Use the Line terminals for the incoming power and the Load terminals to feed the remaining outlets.

If you have any doubts you have it wired right, you can buy a 3-light outlet tester with a GFCI tester button. In any countertop outlet, when you push the test button on the tester, the lights should all go out, and the GFCI outlet should trip. Test the bathroom and outside outlets as well.

[Brad Johnson]

Unfortunately GFCIs are designed to trip on a ground fault (like dropping your hairdryer into the tub).  They are not, as many folks incorrectly presume, general overload protection.  You can have enough of a short to cause huge problems with the circuit but the GFCI won't do anything unless the problem is with the ground.  

You can create a lot of heat in a circuit without tripping a 15A breaker.  Plenty enough to cause a fire in short order.  If you want full protection on the circuit you go with an AFCI (arc fault circuit interruptor) type breaker.  They are required for kitchen and bedroom circuits now.

Brad

[roo_ster]

FTR, my house was built in 1959.  None of the original, non-fiddled-with outlets I have worked on had grounds.  If it is in anyway practical, I fix that, but not having a GFCI in a circuit that serves kitchen outlets...and rear bedroom fans and overhead lights...is pretty low on the list of What Currently Does Not Meet Code That I'd Like To Fix.  This outlet does have a ground, so it is beating the average.

When I get an extra couple thousand bucks, I'll have a real electrician move my Federal Pacific breaker box from the bedroom closet to the garage or back of the house, whilst replacing it with something shiny & new from GE or Square D.  Among other things, like running dedicated circuits to all the stuff that rates it.

[K Frame]

"Federal Pacific breaker box"


    

[roo_ster]

"Federal Pacific breaker box"


    

Doesn't EVERYONE put a (battery powered) smoke detector in their closet?   

After I did that, I thought, "Why don't I put one in the physical closet, too?" where my gas water heater and gas furnace reside.  I also put them one in the garage. 

[Yeah, with one of those Fed Pacs in the house, a lack of a GFCI on a circuit just doesn't seem like a big whoop.]

[Hawkmoon]

It looks like it may have failed at the "ram and jam" push-fit connectors on the outlet. I've been warned never to use those even though it's a million times easier (especially with the big fat GFCI outlets). Maybe that connection became high-resistance, and with no pigtails and the microwave running, it was enough to melt?

Looks to me like that's exactly what happened, and I am in complete agreement that I won't use them. When my then-wife and I bought a new condo in 1979, we had a myriad of mysterious electrical problems. All were eventually traced to loose connections as a result of those back-stabbers. I finally went through the entire unit, pulled all the wires, and reconnected using the screws, the way I was taught when I was a kid. For good measure, I always also wrap the outlet with electrical tape so the wire ends and screw heads aren't exposed. Not much of an issue in this era of plastic wall boxes, but the older house I live in has steel boxes and BX cable for wiring.

[Matthew Carberry]

Like Brad said,

Spend the cash and replace that circuit's breaker with an arc fault, you'll protect all the outlets on the circuit without having to worry which are wired properly.

That sounds so cheap and easy when all you have to do is type it.