"Vee have vayz of making you change to zee Euro..."

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/284656/Germans-try-to-kill-off-pound

Creepy German bureaucrat attempts to dictate to the Brits:  You'll get off the pound.  We'll compel you.



Dr. Strangelove?



Sheesh.

Nevermind the fact that half of Germany wants off the Euro and free of the EU boondoggle.

And the GBP is one of the foundational currencies of global economics to this day.  Despite the relatively miniscule size of England's involvement in international trade...  they have a HUGE impact on international BANKING.  London is a massive banking hub for the Western World.  And savvy currency traders always diversify a significant percentage of their holdings into GBP as a safety net.

People are running from the EUR right now.

And they ain't running to the USD right now, and won't be until we get our debts in order.

And the ChiComs refuse to allow their currency to be traded on the open market.

That pretty much leaves only the GBP.

And it's quietly enjoying the spotlight right now, hoping no one notices.


Frankly, I think that the reason some Germans (Statist Germans that love authoritarianism... the "interesting" kind...) want to suck the UK into the EUR is so that they can defer inflation across a wider pool, rather than making Germans alone pay the price when the printing presses turn on.  Think "Democrats want to spread misery equally..." and put goose-stepping knee-high boots in the picture.

Probably all the fault of those dirty Juden-rats in the London banks, don't ya know.

[MechAg94]

Dr Schauble, who has used a wheelchair since being shot in an assassination attempt in 1990, is nicknamed “Dr Strangelove” in diplomatic circles.

Did you see this in the article first or just hit on the reference yourself? 

I'd bet on the pound sticking around myself assuming Britain doesn't turn into Greece.

[Perd Hapley]

It'd be rather odd if Britain went Euro now, having snubbed it back when it was the second coming of the Almighty Dollar.

[AZRedhawk44]

Did you see this in the article first or just hit on the reference yourself? 

I'd bet on the pound sticking around myself assuming Britain doesn't turn into Greece.

Saw it in the article.  Thought it was entertaining.

[agricola]

Half of me thinks that what the Germans have come out with lately - this, the "tobin tax" (which would be 80% paid by the UK, thanks to the dominance of the City in financial matters) and the general takeover of the holiday destinations across Europe by the Germans - are just an attempt to get us in crumpetland to quit the EU.  After all, its hard to see what else they could be doing that would be more unpopular over here, or easier for Cameron to say no to. 

On the other hand, its also likely are also probably desperate (for domestic political purposes) to find a way - any way - of someone else having to bail out the corrupt regimes, otherwise they (who lets not forget are probably the only sanely run economy in the Euro) will be on the hook for everything, both economically (the total Euroland debt is around 22 trillion euro) and politically (since the grim inevitability is that the Spanish, Italians, Greeks and especially the French are all going to blame the Germans for what comes next).  It is of course a tragedy - to have a united Europe on the right terms would be a massive boost for everyone who lives here - but the failures of the EU (endemic waste, endemic corruption, a total lack of any kind of democratic mandate or interest and the self-interest of incompetent elites) have all contributed to this. 

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45418399

For whom the bell tolls.

No one wants to buy 10 year Euro bonds.

[agricola]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45418399

For whom the bell tolls.

No one wants to buy 10 year Euro bonds.

Its not that bad - the German auction did fail, but the yields they were offering were very low indeed (2% pa over 10 years) given what Germany will probably have to do to support the Euro.  However the failure may also be down to people finally noticing that the top of the EU is basically filled with third-rate national politicians, with the likes of Barroso actually holding press conferences to announce ideas - the latest being the laughably named "stability bond" - that the Germans are shooting down almost immediately.  Did he even ask the people who will pay for this what they thought of this latest scheme?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8910359/Barroso-sets-out-controversial-eurobond-plan.html

[Perd Hapley]

Half of me thinks that what the Germans have come out with lately - this, the "tobin tax" (which would be 80% paid by the UK, thanks to the dominance of the City in financial matters) and the general takeover of the holiday destinations across Europe by the Germans - are just an attempt to get us in crumpetland to quit the EU. 

Seems like that would be France's job. 

[K Frame]

"But he claimed that the UK would ultimately not be able to resist the tide of history."

Hum...

I've seen statements like that coming out of German politicians before...

Trying to remember the guy's name...

Funny mustache... was a corporal in the army...

Just can't remember...

[MechAg94]

"But he claimed that the UK would ultimately not be able to resist the tide of history."

Hum...

I've seen statements like that coming out of German politicians before...

Trying to remember the guy's name...

Funny mustache... was a corporal in the army...

Just can't remember...

I guess everyone would like to think they know where the tide of history will flow, but that is no easier to see sometimes than anything else.  Of course, I am a bit confused by the use of the word "tide" which would seem to imply something cyclic rather than continuous and unyielding like a river current. 

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066862/Britain-draws-emergency-plans-collapse-Euro-warnings-Italy-needs-500bn-bailout.html

UK is making plans just in case the Euro destabilizes.

‘We’re just ready for whatever the world, whatever the Eurozone throws at us. A disorderly collapse of the Eurozone would have a massive impact on the UK. I mean, for example, one in seven pounds we export goes to Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Spain and Greece - just those countries.

‘So in other words, it’s a very important part of our economic strategy that we get the Eurozone moving as well.’

If 1/7 of the UK economy is reliant upon sales to these weak neighbors, that's bad... but, there's a silver lining:  Exports will rise to France, Germany, Austria, Poland, etc.  Those economies won't be shackled by the stupidity of whatever it is about the Mediterranean that breeds such socialist sloth.  They'll be capable of consuming more, and bringing their own economic engines to higher production (which would be good for the raw materials industries in the UK... coal, crude, steel,  etc).  

I liked this little tidbit:

Italy’s vast £1.6 trillion national debt and its low growth rate have caused deepening alarm on the international markets in recent weeks, and even a Brussels-inspired ‘coup’ which saw Silvio Berlusconi removed and a government without a single elected politician in it installed failed to stop the rot.

Very telling that the UK daily mail considers it a good thing to oust a politician in favor of a chamber of closeted bureaucrats.  The language... "a government without a single elected politician [snip] failed to stop the rot."  As if a bureaucrat could succeed at stopping institutionalized graft and entitlement spending.

The core gist of the article though, stabs at member-State sovereignty in the EU.  Evidently Merkel and Sarkozy want all member-States to send their national budgets to an oversight committee in the EU government for approval.  Failure to achieve balanced goals will result in some sort of lawsuit... though the good of that remains to be figured out.  What's the point of suing Italy or Greece?  They couldn't pay anyways, and if they did, it would be with inflated Euros that effectively put a tax on all member-States of the EU once they are printed up.




Also, one final thought:

It emerged yesterday that the International Monetary Fund, in which Britain is a major shareholder, could be forced to offer Italy a €600 billion (£514bn) rescue package to give its unelected new prime minister Mario Monti 12 to 18 months’ breathing room to implement big tax rises and spending cuts.

600 billion Euros is about $850 billion USD, spitballed.  

Where does the IMF get its money?  We are a member of the IMF, but we're in debt to our eyeballs right now already, borrowing from China and anyone else who will bother to help out.  I hope we're not borrowing from China in order to bail out Italy with the other hand, but somehow I think I suspect the answer to that question already.

[Blakenzy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_1-6sPhXSU

I think that van Rompuy is creepier looking.

[Regolith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_1-6sPhXSU

I think that van Rompuy is creepier looking.

Too bad we don't have any politicians with that amount of backbone.  Hard to blame them, though; if a Republican congressman spoke to Obama in that way he'd be called racist and hounded out of office.

[agricola]

Too bad we don't have any politicians with that amount of backbone.  Hard to blame them, though; if a Republican congressman spoke to Obama in that way he'd be called racist and hounded out of office.

Farage (and his party UKIP) are basically a single-issue group and who are benefitting right now because they (and to a lesser extent the Tories under Cameron, who got out of the pro-federalist right wing EU party at just the right time) have been proved right over the EU and Euro.  The problem they have is that UKIP, despite repeated attempts, only have representation in the European Parliament - which as you should know is a body both utterly irrelevant and mindblowingly expensive.  All Farage and his chums (and for that matter every other MEP) can do is pop up, make speeches and fill in his expenses forms - the real decisions are taken by various bureaucrats and the national leaders.

The core gist of the article though, stabs at member-State sovereignty in the EU.  Evidently Merkel and Sarkozy want all member-States to send their national budgets to an oversight committee in the EU government for approval.  Failure to achieve balanced goals will result in some sort of lawsuit... though the good of that remains to be figured out.  What's the point of suing Italy or Greece?  They couldn't pay anyways, and if they did, it would be with inflated Euros that effectively put a tax on all member-States of the EU once they are printed up.

That such oversight didnt exist in the first place is quite a bit of the reason why the Euro has failed - add to that the madness of trusting (to the point of total reliance on what they were saying) countries like Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland and even France (and politicians like Berlusconi, Ahern, Haughey etc) to behave honestly and in a non-corrupt manner when it comes to finance and you have the reciepe for what has happened.  If the EU was actually run by Germany in the manner that they run Germany, it would not be a disaster.

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/25ab975a-1a9f-11e1-ae14-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1f6fNd0O9

European companies are preparing to shift away from the Euro.



The big winner will be the GBP.  You'll see a massive surge in GBP/EUR trading ratios, resulting in 1:2 for GBP:EUR.  You'll see a smaller rally for the USD, probably around 1:1.25 USD:EUR... which is a massive flip-flop compared to our current 1.25:1 ratio right now to the EUR.

And the world will be restored to "normal" status before George Soros got his idgit fingers into the brains of the equally idgity Euroweenies, and planted the idea for a destabilization of the "hegemony" of the USD via a useless and short-lived fiat currency with no national backing to it.

[AZRedhawk44]

The core gist of the article though, stabs at member-State sovereignty in the EU.  Evidently Merkel and Sarkozy want all member-States to send their national budgets to an oversight committee in the EU government for approval.  Failure to achieve balanced goals will result in some sort of lawsuit... though the good of that remains to be figured out.  What's the point of suing Italy or Greece?  They couldn't pay anyways, and if they did, it would be with inflated Euros that effectively put a tax on all member-States of the EU once they are printed up.

That such oversight didnt exist in the first place is quite a bit of the reason why the Euro has failed - add to that the madness of trusting (to the point of total reliance on what they were saying) countries like Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland and even France (and politicians like Berlusconi, Ahern, Haughey etc) to behave honestly and in a non-corrupt manner when it comes to finance and you have the reciepe for what has happened.  If the EU was actually run by Germany in the manner that they run Germany, it would not be a disaster.

There's no US Federal oversight for individual State budgets.  Seems to work here (in the sense that the Fed or other States don't have to bail out bankrupt State governments).  The problem isn't oversight.

Yeah, I know CA needed a bail-out a few years ago under Ahhnuld.  But there's no oversight of State budgets, in spite of that.


I agree with your assessment that the mentality of the Nation-States involved in the EU is a core element in potential for fiscal responsibility.  The Mediterranean "Siesta Culture" (Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal) is not one to trust with your banking, nor your heavy industrial or engineering concerns.

[agricola]

There's no US Federal oversight for individual State budgets.  Seems to work here (in the sense that the Fed or other States don't have to bail out bankrupt State governments).  The problem isn't oversight.

Yeah, I know CA needed a bail-out a few years ago under Ahhnuld.  But there's no oversight of State budgets, in spite of that.

I agree with your assessment that the mentality of the Nation-States involved in the EU is a core element in potential for fiscal responsibility.  The Mediterranean "Siesta Culture" (Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal) is not one to trust with your banking, nor your heavy industrial or engineering concerns.

Oversight was required in this instance because countries got into the Euro only when certain conditions were met, and - in theory at least - had to follow certain conditions once they were in it or (as we have seen) the currency wouldnt work and the rest of the Eurozone would be affected.  What happened it at least one case (Greece) was that they basically lied through their teeth when they got in, and continued to tell fibs until the markets (not the Eurozone regulatory authorities, who didnt really exist) noticed and not unsurprisingly turned the money tap off.   

Not sure about your "siesta culture" theory though, Ireland has had much the same problems as the rest of the PIGS and for much the same reason.

[agricola]

After the make or break summit last night, it seems the UK is in a minority of 1 (or at best, 4) in seeking to preserve its effective independence.  That said, it was still a bit of a shock to find out that Cameron had actually said no.  Of course, the pro-EU elements are not pleased - my favourite today was a Lib Dem MEP called Sharon Bowles, who on national TV said that this decision meant that she would quit her British citizenship and move to Ireland. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/dec/09/uk-isolation-grows-eurozone-treaty
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100122897/as-the-euro-collapses-its-british-supporters-sound-ever-more-irrational/

[AZRedhawk44]

After the make or break summit last night, it seems the UK is in a minority of 1 (or at best, 4) in seeking to preserve its effective independence.  That said, it was still a bit of a shock to find out that Cameron had actually said no.  Of course, the pro-EU elements are not pleased - my favourite today was a Lib Dem MEP called Sharon Bowles, who on national TV said that this decision meant that she would quit her British citizenship and move to Ireland. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/dec/09/uk-isolation-grows-eurozone-treaty
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100122897/as-the-euro-collapses-its-british-supporters-sound-ever-more-irrational/

Good you you folks.

Tell her not to let the door hit her *expletive deleted*ss on the way out.


Amazing how commies always sell out their own country, and talk about how they will just leave and go somewhere else when they don't get their way. 

The UK has stood alone during much darker days than the demise of a 15 year old bad idea of a common fiat currency (that isn't even common to them).  Stay resolute and you folks will weather this tempest in a teapot, too.

[K Frame]

Reading some more about Brexit and I remembered this thread...

I wonder how Herr Schauble's plan for making Britain abandon the pound is gong these days?

[Jocassee]

Just realized how old this thread is. Highly entertaining...

[Perd Hapley]

Sharon Bowles, who on national TV said that this decision meant that she would quit her British citizenship and move to Ireland. 

That, apparently, did not happen?

Then again, I'm not seeing any reporting that she said that, either. [shrug]

[K Frame]

That, apparently, did not happen?

Then again, I'm not seeing any reporting that she said that, either. [shrug]

Well, if she did say it, she didn't do it, which would make her just another liberal liar, like Alec Baldwin, Whoopie Goldberg, Penny Marshall, and so many others.

[birdman]

People are running from the EUR right now.

And they ain't running to the USD right now, and won't be until we get our debts in order.

Judging by the spike in gold in pretty much every currency (especially GBP and EUR) relative to the modest increase in USD, I think more are going toward USD than anything else.

[AJ Dual]

Judging by the spike in gold in pretty much every currency (especially GBP and EUR) relative to the modest increase in USD, I think more are going toward USD than anything else.

Aside from Brexit, and other "normal" market moves, ebb and flow etc., I've got a big honking suspicion that the big driver in gold spikes and even BitCoin have been whenever sino.gov eases up and allows more money out, or the Chinese "asset classes" figure out a new loophole before sino.gov shuts it down, and the hunt for the next pipeline to get capital out of China begins anew.

We had a bad debt/paper/derivatives bubble in 2008. China's bubble is measured in cities.